Bastard Swords (Oh Noes, Not Again!)

[Ganolyn]

Has anyone ever suggested just increasing the crit range on them to 18-20? Would this help them with Keeping Up With The Khopeshians? (assuming most take an improved crit feat)? Perhaps add it to the single weapon only provision with Glancing Blows to help S&B or make it so that it only works when you use it alone (no shield) to reflect the two-handed function we don't currently enjoy. Think of it as a kind of greatsword-lite with finesse. If it has not been suggested, I do so now.

[donfilibuster]

Raising the crit by mere 5% is a lot of power on any weapon.
The advantage of the bastard in pnp was that you could wield it either in one hand or two, which i have no clue why this isn't done in DDO.

Sword, Bastard

A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.

Currently you can get glancing blows when not using it for two weapon fighting, and benefit from the two handed fighting feats that improve glancing blows.
But it is still held in one hand, allowing a shield, and thus you don't get the larger str damage from power attack.

I'd rather suggest that you could really wield it as a two handed weapon for full power attack damage (without shield).
If you could do so without the exotic feat all the better, since it is intended that way.
I'm sure the same code that checks if you get glancing blows can also give you the proficiency.

[Pape_27]

Raising the crit by mere 5% is a lot of power on any weapon.
The advantage of the bastard in pnp was that you could wield it either in one hand or two, which i have no clue why this isn't done in DDO.

agreed. the option should be available to be able to one or two hand the weapon. It would become a much more attractive option if this were the case

[AuriliusTyr]

the last time i brought up suggestions for a bastard sword fix the thread ended with 18 - 20 crit range as a solid fix, bringing bastard sword right in line or above kopesh dps up to i believe attack bonus of 55.

Ive given up on DDo ever fixing the bastard sword, so im going for an esos, i refuse to use archaic middle eastern weapons.

[NaturalHazard]

In pnp can you weild most "medium" weapons with 2 hands? thats one weapon with two hands. Im asking cause im not sure, cause in NWN2 you can weild longswords, battle axes scimmys ect with two hands as well as bastard swords and katana's.

[khaldan]

In pnp can you weild most "medium" weapons with 2 hands? thats one weapon with two hands. Im asking cause im not sure, cause in NWN2 you can weild longswords, battle axes scimmys ect with two hands as well as bastard swords and katana's.

True, but in DDO, why would you?

I mean really, why would you ever THF with a BS instead of a greataxe or falchion?

[NaturalHazard]

True, but in DDO, why would you?

I mean really, why would you ever THF with a BS instead of a greataxe or falchion?

Im not asking if anyone would weild bastard swords two handed in ddo instead of the usual 2handed weapons. Im asking if in pnp you can weild other medium weapons in two hands?

Only case I can think of if you are on a poor lowbie charactor and you manage to get twinked or score a good medium weapon thats way better than any 2hander that you can get at that time. You could maybe do more damage with a shocking burst icy burst pure good longsword or scimmy if you weild it 2handed than if you use a +1 flaming great axe maybe?

[QuantumFX]

I think bastard swords would see more use if Turbine implemented the optional rule of granting bastard sword prof for any human with the martial weapon proficiencies.

[sephiroth1084]

Raising the crit by mere 5% is a lot of power on any weapon.
The advantage of the bastard in pnp was that you could wield it either in one hand or two, which i have no clue why this isn't done in DDO.

Actually, what little advantage the bastard sword had in PnP was that base damage actually matters for longer, so the bigger die over a longsword meant something. Also, there were things like the Exotic Weapon Master PrC that granted special benefits to exotic weapon wielders.

Otherwise, the bastard sword was largely a waste in PnP as well--you could wield any one-handed weapon in two hands. You could wield a longsword two-handed, or even a rapier if you so desired.

[Khanyth]

Bastard swords should be for half elves, in the same manner that dwarven axes are for dwarves

[Loromir]

Raising the crit by mere 5% is a lot of power on any weapon.
The advantage of the bastard in pnp was that you could wield it either in one hand or two, which i have no clue why this isn't done in DDO.



Currently you can get glancing blows when not using it for two weapon fighting, and benefit from the two handed fighting feats that improve glancing blows.
But it is still held in one hand, allowing a shield, and thus you don't get the larger str damage from power attack.

I'd rather suggest that you could really wield it as a two handed weapon for full power attack damage (without shield).
If you could do so without the exotic feat all the better, since it is intended that way.
I'm sure the same code that checks if you get glancing blows can also give you the proficiency.

Why wield a BS two handed? Why not just use a great sword then? If you can come up with a damage niche for two handed BS, then I'm all for it.

My suggestion is to give Half-orc BS proficiency. Since it is a Large sword and Half-Orcs have extra strength, just seems a good fit.

[Arkadios]

bastard Swords Should Be For Half Elves, In The Same Manner That Dwarven Axes Are For Dwarves

+1 Lmao

[Ganolyn]

Raising the crit by mere 5% is a lot of power on any weapon.

I would argue that raising the crit range by 5% is nothing compared to raising the crit damage by 50% (khopesh).


EDIT: I should point out that they amount to the same thing over time, but a good run of spike damage from a higher crit multiplier will sometimes make things quicker.

[elujin]

mebey they should make them one handed greathswords 2d6 not sure how mutch it would help but it sounds logical to me in some way

[Ganolyn]

mebey they should make them one handed greathswords 2d6 not sure how mutch it would help but it sounds logical to me in some way

If you were going to go that route you would make greatswords 2d6 and bastard swords 1d12.

[RJBsComputer]

The Bastard Sword does not need to be change. What really needs to be change is the combo of the Bastard Sword and Shield. As the Bastard Sword is set up it is a step behind the Khopesh. There is enough overlapping damage that make the Khopesh and Bastard Sword equal. However, the x3 crit damage multiplier is what gives the khopesh the edge over the bastard sword. So how do you fix the bastard sword? Just give it it's own nich. That nich should be Sword and Shield.

How do you make the Bastard Sword and Shield combo a more wanted combo? Increase the importance of the shield. Increase the AC and DR of the shield through a feat chain just like TWF and THF. Let the shield be used as a club that does some damage and a percentage roll to see if it knocks down your target. An enhancement line can be use to walk up the damage and knock percentage. Example: I- lvl 6/1d4/20% knock down. II- lvl 12/2d4/40% knock down, III- lvl 18/3d4/60% knock down.

This makes the Bastard Sword the natural selection for anyone wanting to go Sword and Shield.

[Nite_Prowler]

My suggestion is to give Half-orc BS proficiency. Since it is a Large sword and Half-Orcs have extra strength, just seems a good fit.

+1 best idea Ive seen this week

[khaldan]

The Bastard Sword does not need to be change. What really needs to be change is the combo of the Bastard Sword and Shield. As the Bastard Sword is set up it is a step behind the Khopesh. There is enough overlapping damage that make the Khopesh and Bastard Sword equal. However, the x3 crit damage multiplier is what gives the khopesh the edge over the bastard sword. So how do you fix the bastard sword? Just give it it's own nich. That nich should be Sword and Shield.

How do you make the Bastard Sword and Shield combo a more wanted combo? Increase the importance of the shield. Increase the AC and DR of the shield through a feat chain just like TWF and THF. Let the shield be used as a club that does some damage and a percentage roll to see if it knocks down your target. An enhancement line can be use to walk up the damage and knock percentage. Example: I- lvl 6/1d4/20% knock down. II- lvl 12/2d4/40% knock down, III- lvl 18/3d4/60% knock down.

This makes the Bastard Sword the natural selection for anyone wanting to go Sword and Shield.

What's keeping me from using a khopesh instead of a BS in that scenario?

[RJBsComputer]

What's keeping me from using a khopesh instead of a BS in that scenario?

The Batard Sword has glancing damage and the khopesh does not. This helps with keeping agro on the unenaged monsters. So with the added AC and DR and damage from glancing blows, a working IntimaTank can make a comeback. However, no one says you can't use any sword you want too, or run a toon in a given way. I can see people still using a THF weapon and then switching when things get dirty.

[Duke-H-]

Why wield a BS two handed? Why not just use a great sword then? If you can come up with a damage niche for two handed BS, then I'm all for it.

If you could get the THF Str/PA bonuses to a bastard sword when using it with both hands. It would save the SnB people who use Bastard Sword the need to craft/buy an additional THF weapon for situations like boss beatdowns where the shield does nothing.