Spellsong Vigor = fountain of spell points?

[WielderofGigantus]

With the release of Update 7 and Spellsinger II, I've had thoughts about making a Spellsinger, since from what I've read it seems like they could have more spell points than sorcerers once they hit level 12 and gain the vigor song. But I figured I should ask first and find out how powerful Spellsong Vigor really is?

So, how much sp does it restore over how long a period of time?

[Tuney]

It gives 2 sp tick every 2 seconds. As long as you don't have moments where you have to blow all or most of your SP in one encounter, you'll have lots of SP as long as your songs hold out.

[frznvimes]

I believe it lasts 24 seconds +6 sec per lvl. So, at cap, you could theoretically restore 2880 sp over 48 minutes using all your songs (assuming no other relevant enhancements, like extra song) on one person, or the same amount in less time over several people. So it's not like an endless fountain of sp, but it's a decent little boost.

[Aashrym]

2SP/2sec/song plus a chance for a mass DV.

The mass DV does proc fairly often. 24 sec + 6 sec/lvl with full line of lingering song and capstone (22 songs) is a potential well over 6000 bonus SP without the DV procs. The SP potential on the song is huge.

The reality is that it would take roughly 90 minutes of singing it constantly to achieve that.

The second reality is that it's single target so all the casters might be looking for it among the other 2 caster buffing songs. This can be a good thing. The ability to use all those SP can be shared so that the party can take better advantage of them without 90 minutes of 1/sec (2/2sec).

The third reality is that you will still be singing inspire courage and possibly other songs. At this point you may find that you are running lower on songs than you used to be.

It's a strong song for spellsingers (I still think song of arcane might and spellsong trance can use some upgrading) and it can help with SP's a lot. I want people to understand that it's not a simple mass supply, however. It does add up to a lot of SP but it still costs a song (not all songs will be devoted to this) and it still takes time.

So don't expect to have more SP than a sorcerer. You have SP potential over a sorcerer in the long run but if you plan on trying to make use of it you would be much better off to cut the SP regen time down and provide the sorc SP regen too. And anyone else who needs it.

Hopefully that helps.

PS: Inspire courage is still the top song IMO.

[Doxmaster]

You know...with the Eternal Cure Minor Wounds Wand, you can heal 1-3 hp every second or two...and you can have two or three or fifty of them...

That is 50-150 hp per wand and you can have as many as you can carry.

I can see it now:
5 people spamming their Cure Minor Wands while 1 dude tries to DPS down a boss. Thats 5-15hp per second; more with full wand amplification on the 'healers' and really high healing amp on the DPS.

[frznvimes]

2SP/2sec/song plus a chance for a mass DV.

I was under the impression that mass dv could proc off any song?

[Tuney]

The SP 'burst' is on any song , chance based on Perform.

[Aashrym]

I was under the impression that mass dv could proc off any song?

It is a chance on any song. That comment was specific to the SP song. I apologize if I wasn't clear.

[rick0213]

I currently have about a 60 in perform depending on buffs. For me the Mass DV happens quite often. Id say 3 of every 4 songs will hit a DV. The Dv's give back about 22 to 34 SP, for me at least. Combined with the Spellsong Vigor it really helps out a lot. Especially when shrines are few and far between.

[Echelar]

I did some tests with my lvl 15 SS (perform = 37). Out of 100 songs, I got 31 DVs. The SP restored varied between 18 and 28 points.

I could do more tests to narrow down the proc % if anyone cares, but it's good enough for an approximation of how worthwhile the skill is.

[angelwblueeyes]

So it's not like an endless fountain of sp, but it's a decent little boost.

Honestly, you pick up an Elyd Edge, and it will be an endless fountain of SP.
Anthem: When wielded by a character with Bard levels, this weapon begins to hum an inspiring tune. Your bard songs regenerate slowly over time.

◦regenerates one bard song usage every 5 minutes.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Elyd_Edge
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Elyd_Edge
http://ddowiki.com/page/Anthem

ONLY exception. For some reason the Spellsong Vigor skill does not work on warforged, but the AOE "DV" effect does.
I'm not sure if this is Turbine's intention, because they did not exclude warforged in the spell description.

[Aashrym]

Honestly, you pick up an Elyd Edge, and it will be an endless fountain of SP.
Anthem: When wielded by a character with Bard levels, this weapon begins to hum an inspiring tune. Your bard songs regenerate slowly over time.

◦regenerates one bard song usage every 5 minutes.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Elyd_Edge
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Elyd_Edge
http://ddowiki.com/page/Anthem

ONLY exception. For some reason the Spellsong Vigor skill does not work on warforged, but the AOE "DV" effect does.
I'm not sure if this is Turbine's intention, because they did not exclude warforged in the spell description.

I disagree. This is because anthem has a slow regen and spellsong vigor is also a regen over time.

Sure, I can sit in a safe spot and go grocery shopping in the middle of the instance and end up with my songs and my SP back but it takes way too long to make this approach feasible. I use Elyd's and typically I might see 1-2 songs regen between shrines depending on the quest, and a couple or 3 songs to regen SP if needed.

That's would be playing about 10 minutes between shrines, which is not always the case and often not even the average depending on how fast the party is moving.

Technically the SP is unlimited with Elyd's but takes excessive amounts of time to get those SP. If I limit my spellsong vigor to 3 songs / caster between shrines that's over 800 SP each and more realistic in my experience. There's also no point in overkilling the SP's available.

Of course I do solo a lot and can go at my own slow pace if necessary without inconveniencing others. That makes it lean more towards what you are saying but excessive wait on regen time isn't the best strategy IMO.

[angelwblueeyes]

I disagree. This is because anthem has a slow regen and spellsong vigor is also a regen over time.

I never said it was a FAST fountain, just that it could be an endless one. I've farmed the entirety of gianthold without having to shrine once because I conserved spell points constantly casting spellsong vigor on myself. By the time my song is done, another one has already regenerated. It doesn't go by fast, but as long as you don't WASTE spell points, they fill up by the time you need to cast again. It all depends on what skills you use.

[JollySwagMan]

You know...with the Eternal Cure Minor Wounds Wand, you can heal 1-3 hp every second or two...and you can have two or three or fifty of them...

That is 50-150 hp per wand and you can have as many as you can carry.

I can see it now:
5 people spamming their Cure Minor Wands while 1 dude tries to DPS down a boss. Thats 5-15hp per second; more with full wand amplification on the 'healers' and really high healing amp on the DPS.

? I think you may have posted in the wrong thread. Also, the Cure Minor Wounds wand is an Exclusive item.

Anyway on topic...I would be interested in seeing other options for regenerating Bard songs. 5 minutes seems about right, but would this ability on something like necklace or trinket be unbalancing?

[Aashrym]

I never said it was a FAST fountain, just that it could be an endless one. I've farmed the entirety of gianthold without having to shrine once because I conserved spell points constantly casting spellsong vigor on myself. By the time my song is done, another one has already regenerated. It doesn't go by fast, but as long as you don't WASTE spell points, they fill up by the time you need to cast again. It all depends on what skills you use.

But what if I want to waste spell points?

Anthem + spellsong vigor is a nice combo, I agree. I was thinking more of an endless supply of SP so that spellsingers could simply blast through them, which is something that still cannot be done without hitting a no SP wall.

It's more like an endless supply of SP that can only be utilized at a finite rate if that makes sense. We can't just blow thru them, which I see you are stating above and I did not take that from your previous post. I'm pretty sure we're on the same page when I look at the number of SP we would actually access on a run.

[angelwblueeyes]

But what if I want to waste spell points?

That's why you buy Mnemonic Enhancement potions. Any class that had "ENDLESS" SP would be WAYY overpowered.

[Fomori]

You know...with the Eternal Cure Minor Wounds Wand, you can heal 1-3 hp every second or two...and you can have two or three or fifty of them...

That is 50-150 hp per wand and you can have as many as you can carry.

I can see it now:
5 people spamming their Cure Minor Wands while 1 dude tries to DPS down a boss. Thats 5-15hp per second; more with full wand amplification on the 'healers' and really high healing amp on the DPS.

Not to bust your bubble, but that wand is 'Exclusive'. Thus you can have as many as you want in the bank but can only carry 1 in your inventory.

[Aashrym]

That's why you buy Mnemonic Enhancement potions. Any class that had "ENDLESS" SP would be WAYY overpowered.

I actually do not buy the pots, btw. I have pots that I have found still.

I turn in Eberron shards for items to replenish SP instead and have plenty of those banked up if I need them.

I just wanted to be clear with anyone reading that the "limitless pool" still has limitations, so to speak. The concept that there is an eternal supply of SP with anthem is true but impractical when spending SP like the supply is unlimited.

[Zansobar]

I guess I'm not seeing that big of a benefit from the SP regen song...with how extremely cheap buying SP potions from the DDO store are...and that 288 sp over like 5 mins is just nothing in my opinion.

The big benefit i see is from the 10% SP reduction in casting costs for all players....if the SP regen was 1) more sp per second and 2) an Area Effect spell, then it would seem useful for that. As is...you can get one SP potion that restores that many SP and do it in a few seconds...I mean you are talking about 10% to 20% of a caster's SP regenning over 5 minutes....5 minutes is a HUGE amount of time.

If you couldn't get SP potions in the store so cheaply then I agree it would be very sought after.

[Jaid314]

I guess I'm not seeing that big of a benefit from the SP regen song...with how extremely cheap buying SP potions from the DDO store are...and that 288 sp over like 5 mins is just nothing in my opinion.

The big benefit i see is from the 10% SP reduction in casting costs for all players....if the SP regen was 1) more sp per second and 2) an Area Effect spell, then it would seem useful for that. As is...you can get one SP potion that restores that many SP and do it in a few seconds...I mean you are talking about 10% to 20% of a caster's SP regenning over 5 minutes....5 minutes is a HUGE amount of time.

If you couldn't get SP potions in the store so cheaply then I agree it would be very sought after.

depending on the caster who's getting those spell points, it could make a huge difference.

or, to phrase it another way... that can fuel an awful lot of archmage SLAs, for example.

also, not everyone is so cavalier about spending their RL money on mana pots. plus, even if it's "only" a few hundred spell points over the course of several minutes, that's still a few hundred spell points that you wouldn't have had without the ability.