Petition: Samurai

[gorgorothsixsixsix]

also, monks have no flurry of attacks. the flurry of attacks they have is not flurry of attacks. so they are not monks.

and yeah, i can edit but this comment needs its special post.

[Mister_Peace]

lawful yes but i do not think i seen anywhere stating a samurai must be neutral as well

Yeah well, you also never saw the firewalls burning down the doors. :P

[Aranticus]

trolls.

This is infractable

i already said this is fighter prestige class.

I didn't say anything about it not being a PrE, for someone who keeps asking if people read what you wrote, you are very bad at reading yourself

Let me expand why the abilities arnt powerful

kiai

This ability is too weak. On demand crit is nice but you only have 12 of them. Since this is on toggle mode, this would be similar to a paladins smite evil, which means after 30s you are out of dps. Compared to a kensai, who's expanded crit range continuously generates crits. Add that if you use a high crit weapon, you are going to lose a lot of the toggled crits

whirlwind

it would be a nice feat if it doesn't take so much time to activate

parry magic

It won't be implemented as what you stated as fighters get huge + to attack which means a samurai will be immune to all magic. It will make boss fights a joke. It is very likely that this will be a toggled effect like a defender stance which gives you increased + to saves

deny caster defense

This is a joke in ddo. If you can't see how a fighter cannot miss anything or that mob ac is a flat increase and not mainly thru magical means, I won't be able to help

reflect spell

It work on charges. You know how many spells are casted in a high level quest?

[Aranticus]

Yeah well, you also never saw the firewalls burning down the doors. :P

Because those doors did not have mobs behind them when firewalls were exploitable!

[Aranticus]

then they should remove metalline weapons... listen to yourself. or try to understand the game you are playing.

Transmuting was removed for a reason

halforcs also was not a race in ddo once. if you read what i said, samurai II gets it. so it doesn't even have to be a feat. there are deathblock armors but that didn't stop them from adding deathward spell.

How many quests truely require blindfighting? Deathblock doesn't protect against negative energy effects

why ranger has plus 2 to resistances?

FYI, it stacks

[gorgorothsixsixsix]

make it, so only samurai can activate whirlwind faster than the rest.

you are saying x is weak, y is too much. it's balanced then.

resistance 2 stacks? YAY! i know it stacks... but next to 30 res from ship, it's nothing, it's ridiculous. animal empathy is ridiculous, summons are ridiculous... there are many useless, ridiculous feats, spells and enhancements. snake blood, feint etc. etc. so let me add blindfighting just to make it a bit more samurai like...

toggle on, unleash all 12 kiai against 1 monster. that's weak? no dude. that's like awesome.

kensei sustainable dps. samurai is anti caster, spike dps.

also don't take everything literally. deny caster defenses; this is not real d&d. so how we can translate this to this game? think like that. maybe a simple +2 to damage rolls. and again, i'm saying "maybe".

this kind of stuff should be tested and seen if too powerful or whatever of course.

but then again, arcanes can solo everything.... so how anyone can talk about "balance" is a mystery to me to begin with.

[Emili]

lawful yes but i do not think i seen anywhere stating a samurai must be neutral as well

... but if I "role" a samurai I'd like it to be Licitly (submissively) Naughty ... with the occasional sway of spontaneity.


/kneel - My sword is yours my lord, what else shall you have of me?

[Aranticus]

make it, so only samurai can activate whirlwind faster than the rest.

you are saying x is weak, y is too much. it's balanced then.

unfortunately, you have no concept of what is balanced

resistance 2 stacks? YAY! i know it stacks... but next to 30 res from ship, it's nothing, it's ridiculous. animal empathy is ridiculous, summons are ridiculous... there are many useless, ridiculous feats, spells and enhancements. snake blood, feint etc. etc. so let me add blindfighting just to make it a bit more samurai like...

have you been in tod where there are mobs that do rediculously high no save damages? have you done epics where spell damage is consistently 3-5x more than your resists?

as to the useless stuff you mentioned, go check the history of forums. players complaining about underpowered summons, checked. players complaining about useless feats, checked. and you want to add more useless stuff

toggle on, unleash all 12 kiai against 1 monster. that's weak? no dude. that's like awesome.

yes it is weak because you cannot unleash all 12 at 1 go. there will be a cool down before you can use it. a paladin faces the same problem with smites as well but smites regen every 90s and a paladin has secondary abilities ie divine sacrifice to keep the up the dps. and if using preccedent examples, your ki strikes are likely to be tied to a boost, ie kensai power surge is tied to attack boost

kensei sustainable dps. samurai is anti caster, spike dps.

much as you claim it to be spike dps, it pales in comparison to a paladin as paladins have 2 toggle action effects namely smite and divine sacrifice

also don't take everything literally. deny caster defenses; this is not real d&d. so how we can translate this to this game? think like that. maybe a simple +2 to damage rolls. and again, i'm saying "maybe".

this kind of stuff should be tested and seen if too powerful or whatever of course.

the problem with this game is that much too often, balancing is done after it become live because the idea is not rigidly discussed before implementation

but then again, arcanes can solo everything.... so how anyone can talk about "balance" is a mystery to me to begin with.

i'm really doubting if you understand the context. no where have i compared a samurai to a caster when talking about balance. i've been using melee examples. just because others to not agree with your suggestion, you use insults? i could say something bad in response but i wont, you are not worth the points

[Aranticus]

... but if I "role" a samurai I'd like it to be Licitly (submissively) Naughty ... with the occasional sway of spontaneity.


/kneel - My sword is yours my lord, what else shall you have of me?

can you be this for me?

[gorgorothsixsixsix]

yes it is weak because you cannot unleash all 12 at 1 go.

lol. we are talking about an imaginary class and you are saying there's a cooldown? no, you can't reprogram my toggles dude. it's just a toggle. if it's active and you are not deactivating, all your kiais will be used.

then, it will be spiky enough.

then, whatever you say no one gonna get those 2 resistances.

you can't give all the greatest abilities and feats to one class. blindfighting is just a flavor. the important things are kiais, ghost touch/dr bypass/parry magic.

what's the point? make all melees balanced while casters are overpowered? there's balance in game overall or not. so yeah, the samurai i pictured here can take down a boss easily if he saves all his kiais but he will suffer on the way.

[Deaths_ward]

I actually read every post....I don't know why, but I did. Lets say the OP and anyone that agrees with him is Side A. Everyone else is Side B.

The Argument Goes....

Side A) Original, if not well thought idea, that I think could improve the game, what do you think?

Side B) Oh no way it's Weak/Over Powered/Stupid/etc. and you're dumb for saying it.

Side A) No, you're dumb, you just don't know how to recognize my genius.

Side B) Yeah, genius like a five year old.

Both Sides) NERD RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
etc.

So there's the argument in it's entirety, can we go run the shroud for the nine thousandth time, I'm missing some larges for my goggles.

[Gulnar13]

Metalline does not *flat out* bypass every kind of DR. It bypass metal-based DR. You still have to bypass elemental-based DR. If you want to bypass both, with a single class feature, it *is* overpowered. Just look what's happening at the shintao monks.

Kiais are crit on demand. 12? Ok. I'm sure than a melee hit more times than twelve in a minute. More like... 40? 60? So the dps of the samurai would be:

First 10 second: burn throught all kiais, do a load of damage, aggro the boss.
Afterward: damage is weak, the boss turn around and aggro the party.

Also, the longer the fight, the less useful the samurai is. Since the "weakest" boss of end-game in DDO (namely ARREOSTRIKOS) requires a fairly long fight.. well, from there it just goes uphill. What woula samurai do against, say, Horot? Or maybe Elite Horot? Or, even worse, Elite Velah?
Then, Parry Magic.
If it's implemented to parry ALL incoming magic, with no charges of cooldown, it gives total immunity to magic to the samurai. This is overpowered, no matter how you look at it. If it's implemented at charges, then... it sucks, because in end-game quests bosses throw more spell than a a wizard on crack. At alst, if it's implemented to parry only non-damaging magic... then it's like SR, so not-so-useless.

And arcanes *cannot* solo everything. *Divines* can solo everything.

[elujin]

isn't the 3de fighter pre going to be purple knight ?

[gorgorothsixsixsix]

Metalline does not *flat out* bypass every kind of DR. It bypass metal-based DR. You still have to bypass elemental-based DR. If you want to bypass both, with a single class feature, it *is* overpowered. Just look what's happening at the shintao monks.

in my first post or second i said complete dr bypass would be too much. maybe enhancement starting with 5 dr bypass.

First 10 second: burn throught all kiais, do a load of damage, aggro the boss.
Afterward: damage is weak, the boss turn around and aggro the party.

samurais still fighters they can intimidate.

Also, the longer the fight, the less useful the samurai is. Since the "weakest" boss of end-game in DDO (namely ARREOSTRIKOS) requires a fairly long fight.. well, from there it just goes uphill. What woula samurai do against, say, Horot? Or maybe Elite Horot? Or, even worse, Elite Velah?

i don't understand you people. it's either overpowered or too weak. i didn't give you a complete samurai character sheet or something. it's a concept. i gave you my source, that dandwiki page, and i have kind of quoted some cool abilities from samurai.

like, is it weak? then add vorpal property to ancestral weapon... and/or

Cut Magic (Su): At 12th level, a Samurai may attack ongoing spell effects by attacking the square they are in for Area of Effect effects or the object or person for targeted effects (which does damage as normal to the object or person). This attack is handled like the Samurai's Parry Magic ability, but it only dispels a 10' by 10' section of an Area of Effect spell or spell-like ability.

or maybe;

Deny Armor (Su): At 18th level, a Samurai attacking with his Ancestral Weapon ignores any AC bonuses on his targets that come from armor or natural armor.

a caster stoneskin himself. (i know this is not ac but like how this would be useful when translated into current game we have) kill the bastard as if he doesn't have it. a ranger barkskin himself. (never seen one doing that, they should.) kill the bastard. etc.

don't just attack my conceptual description of sorts as if i'm a dev and you have to accept it as it is.

Then, Parry Magic.


If it's implemented to parry ALL incoming magic, with no charges of cooldown, it gives total immunity to magic to the samurai. This is overpowered, no matter how you look at it. If it's implemented at charges, then... it sucks, because in end-game quests bosses throw more spell than a a wizard on crack. At alst, if it's implemented to parry only non-damaging magic... then it's like SR, so not-so-useless.

there's a good description about this in my first post. "If he can make an attack roll against an AC equal to the spell or effect's DC with this Attack of Opportunity, the effect does not affect him."

basically he will be able to parry most magic but sometimes, randomly, just like you miss when attacking, some spells will land. higher the dc of a spell, higher the chances to penetrate parry. when a spell lands, you should say "unlucky".

[Aranticus]

lol. we are talking about an imaginary class and you are saying there's a cooldown? no, you can't reprogram my toggles dude. it's just a toggle. if it's active and you are not deactivating, all your kiais will be used.

you keep harping on the assumption that changes can be easily made to game, you ever wondered how things really work in ddo? look at the changes so far from Mod1 to 9 then update1 to 7. the mechanics of the game is built upon existing mechanics. ie divine vitality is linked to turn undead. this, if my memory did not fail me, would be the preccedent. next, you have divine might linked to turn undead, then power surge linked to attack boost

similarly, if the devs were to implement the samurai, similar mechanics would be used for samurai abilities. you are looking at the samurai from a very microscopic view, basing it on what you have experienced in pnp. try expanding your vision and see how it could possibly be added to ddo as a PrE. step into the shoes of a developer and try think like them. this is what you lack to make the suggestion a truely good one

[Aranticus]

in my first post or second i said complete dr bypass would be too much. maybe enhancement starting with 5 dr bypass.

as at present, DR doesnt work the way you describe

samurais still fighters they can intimidate.

then you have to ask yourself that in a boss fight, why would i want to bring a samurai rather than a stalwart if you are intimitanking?

i don't understand you people. it's either overpowered or too weak. i didn't give you a complete samurai character sheet or something. it's a concept. i gave you my source, that dandwiki page, and i have kind of quoted some cool abilities from samurai.

its not you do not understand but rather you do not understand the mechanics of ddo

like, is it weak? then add vorpal property to ancestral weapon... and/or

vorpal ability is given to rogues and is on a sneak attack only in order reduce the power. what limitations are you going to place if you want to give vorpal ability to samurai?

Cut Magic (Su): At 12th level, a Samurai may attack ongoing spell effects by attacking the square they are in for Area of Effect effects or the object or person for targeted effects (which does damage as normal to the object or person). This attack is handled like the Samurai's Parry Magic ability, but it only dispels a 10' by 10' section of an Area of Effect spell or spell-like ability.

or maybe;

Deny Armor (Su): At 18th level, a Samurai attacking with his Ancestral Weapon ignores any AC bonuses on his targets that come from armor or natural armor.

a caster stoneskin himself. (i know this is not ac but like how this would be useful when translated into current game we have) kill the bastard as if he doesn't have it. a ranger barkskin himself. (never seen one doing that, they should.) kill the bastard. etc.

don't just attack my conceptual description of sorts as if i'm a dev and you have to accept it as it is.

i want turbine to introduce a race. anything that moves near me gets 1000 points of untyped damage. don't just attack my conceptual description of sorts as if i'm a dev and you have to accept it as it is.

doesnt quite work does it?

there's a good description about this in my first post. "If he can make an attack roll against an AC equal to the spell or effect's DC with this Attack of Opportunity, the effect does not affect him."

basically he will be able to parry most magic but sometimes, randomly, just like you miss when attacking, some spells will land. higher the dc of a spell, higher the chances to penetrate parry. when a spell lands, you should say "unlucky".

you do know that attack bonuses in ddo are such that your samurai will only miss that roll if a 1 is rolled right?

[richieelias27]

then they should remove metalline weapons... listen to yourself. or try to understand the game you are playing.

Since you decided to play the "understand the game card" I suppose I'll go ahead and reiterate what others have already said.

Metalline weapons do not pass all DR. There is such a thing as non-metal DR and flat DR. Learn the game yourself, then come back. Oh, and when you come back, bring pie.

[gorgorothsixsixsix]

as at present, DR doesnt work the way you describe

it doesn't have to work that way. just like ranger has + to damage against his favored enemies, samurai has + damage against creatures with dr. there you go, dr bypassed.

then you have to ask yourself that in a boss fight, why would i want to bring a samurai rather than a stalwart if you are intimitanking?

because there wasn't any stalwart fighters. we asked one and he was about to leave..... so we take a samurai instead. dude! first you said he can't keep aggro, then i told you how he can easily. now you are asking why not a stalwart... don't be fixed minded.

its not you do not understand but rather you do not understand the mechanics of ddo

toggle is definitely not a problem. think it like defensive fighting toggle. it just have 12 charges and once you outta them deactivated automatically. if they can't code such an easy thing then i don't know what they can.


so, basically, you have to make your mind up. is it overpowered or weak? there's a reason why i didn't mention vorpal in my first post because that would be overpowered indeed.

actually i'm not sure how cut magic can be implemented into a real time game. hmmm... this would be in the form of an aura i guess. and this aura gives players near you an effect similar to "blurry" but only against magical effects.

then you are a better tank than stalwart against caster bosses.

[hooblaboo]

laughing a lot because of all the nerd rage?

On a more serious note, I would rather have them add final bard PrEs, sorcerer PrEs, FvS PrEs, etc. then implement this

[Arkadios]

Ok i think we should add Druids before we think about any other classes. Druid was an original AD&D class and i'm suprised they havn't implemented it yet.