Intimidate WAI or Broken?

[eonfreon]

This is the nature of the problem - so much is 'hidden away' and some of it is meta-game and some of it is within-game factors. My best understanding of intim is that it does an initial shift to the intimidator and adds some kind of aggro points but with all the crazy damage that OTHER people can now cause I am wondering if that doesn't mess up the mix??

It is hard for all things to be equal because (as an example) more people just got their SoS shard and now you might have multiple people chopping sick amounts of damage.

Or, there could be something bizarre and unrelated like (and I am totally making this up) but the changes to Pale Master could be messing up intim - hey, if we can generate washing machine sounds then who knows how crazy unrelated things can cause odd in-game impact.

Or it could just be broken. Very tough to say.

Vallin.

If it's because of any unrelated bug then it is "broken" or not WAI. Anything that changes something, even if it's completely unrelated, and in effect "breaks" the normal effect is not WAI.

Your understanding of Intimidate is indeed wrong. It doesn't add any points (wish it did actually) it just locks the aggro on you until the timer's up and then it goes to normal, following the aggro order of "most damage", until you fire Intimidate again and then it "locks" again.

That's the way it works. So either people's impressions are wrong or people's impressions are correct, that it seems to misfire more often. The only way it would be WAI is if it was actually changed by the Devs. Otherwise it isn't.

Some people have mentioned that it seems to have changed in that you have to wait a full second before firing it again to guarantee it working like it used to. this could be because of soemthing that changed during U7. Some minor glitch. In which case, it's not WAI.

[eonfreon]

bit off-topic...



If you see hand graphics then you hit the wrong button, shaking hands is the symbol for diplomacy funny anyway what people call the intimidate icon, ("yello finger" in the other thread)...

Very funny, but no I don't use Diplomacy on my melee.

The graphic to me looks like a yellow hand grabbing the MOB's head. I really don't pay attention that much to the graphic anymore. But I know when it fires and when it succeeds. By the yellow graphic and by the dice telling me "Intimidate Success" or "Intimidate Failure". Or the occassional, "The Skeleton cannot be Intimidated" .

[Vallin]

Your understanding of Intimidate is indeed wrong. It doesn't add any points (wish it did actually) it just locks the aggro on you until the timer's up and then it goes to normal, following the aggro order of "most damage", until you fire Intimidate again and then it "locks" again.

Do you KNOW that there is also not an aggro point mechanic? The wiki states that it does - but perhaps that is wrong and needs to be corrected.

Under many situations I have seen intim work best when it is combined with threat from damage. When people spam the intim button I have seen less consistent 'locking' of the mob. That is my experience.

I have, however, seen successful intim done without swinging. This leads me to believe that a lot of this simply boils down to dc and whatever is generating the most hate.

[smatt]

Hmm changed since U7, no doubt about it.....

Haven't played a lot though, due to the sound bug.... Hopefully, that's fixed...

Will try waiting the 1 sec after cooldown, I WAS having good luck hitting it about 1 sec before cooldown expired previous to U7...

Either there was a minor change to it or soemthign broke it..

[Kinerd]

My best understanding of intim is that it does an initial shift to the intimidator and adds some kind of aggro points but with all the crazy damage that OTHER people can now cause I am wondering if that doesn't mess up the mix?? ... Do you KNOW that there is also not an aggro point mechanic?

It used to be that intimidate was simply success = locked aggro. There may well have also been hate generated, but that was irrelevant to the situations described, because intimidate's cooldown and duration were the same. It is possible that now there has been a stealth change making intimidate purely hate generation, which would be a dramatic nerf for intimitank builds with broken PrEs. It is also possible that a change was made to make monsters immune to intimidation while intimidated but the duration of the immunity was made as long as the duration of the intimidation, leading to the observations by some that if you wait slightly after intimidate's lock expires before re-intimidating you will be able to maintain lock.

Whatever possibility is actually the case, it is a fact that the system is not working as stated. The only question is whether this is intentional or a bug.

[Angelus_dead]

Your understanding of Intimidate is indeed wrong. It doesn't add any points (wish it did actually)

No, Intimidate does add points of hate, in addition to the other effect. Last time I counted it added hate about equal to your Intim check (65 or whatever).

That is a documented feature from the release notes.

[Quikster]

No, Intimidate does add points of hate, in addition to the other effect. Last time I counted it added hate about equal to your Intim check (65 or whatever).

That is a documented feature from the release notes.

Yes intim adds a bit of hate, but usually the amount is meaningless at endgame when put against solid melee builds.

I cant say for sure if its bugged as the only boss I have tried to intim is the boss at the end of epic chronosphere. Nothing preupdate to compare too there. I likely wont get into any other raids to check until after the xp bonus is over.

I can tell you that I never failed an intim check against that boss, and he still turned around a lot.

[fullpozzy]

No, Intimidate does add points of hate, in addition to the other effect. Last time I counted it added hate about equal to your Intim check (65 or whatever).

That is a documented feature from the release notes.

That may be the answer, ran multiple raids and my intim was usually the highest (64-67). So if they actually fixed intim to be hate based and adding paladins in to the mix. That explains why its easier for me on my paladin to hold and maintain over some other tanks. With the new addition paladins may have moved to the front when it comes to intim, but as stated already we don't know the inner working or the game dynamics

[knightgf]

I've found that sometimes, you may need to intimidate more than once to get the attention of a mob. Whether or not its WAI, I have no idea, but that's what I've found.

[Quikster]

That may be the answer, ran multiple raids and my intim was usually the highest (64-67). So if they actually fixed intim to be hate based and adding paladins in to the mix. That explains why its easier for me on my paladin to hold and maintain over some other tanks. With the new addition paladins may have moved to the front when it comes to intim, but as stated already we don't know the inner working or the game dynamics

I think you missunderstood ad's post. On my palm so not going into it. But there was no intended change to intim in the release notes that I saw.

[lugoman]

Agro is WAI, ie broken. They just need to break the dt armor hate and everything will be good. I wouldnt mind mobs switching agro on my dps build as it makes boss beating less monotonous - you have to pay attention and stop swinging every now and then. I dont like it on my intimi as it makes me look incompetent.

[Chai]

It seems to me that this is only "broken" in the end game where raid bosses or named mobs wont always change aggro due to intimidate for the full 6 seconds.

It used to be thought that intimidate was a 6 second burst of auto aggro, and hiding behind a shield and hitting intim every 6 seconds was good enough to hold aggro, where nowdays I am more inclined to believe it adds a large amount of hate, but still has to beat the next person in line who in the end game is likely a THF with eSOS or a TWF with epic khopesh, in order for the aggro to change. In most cases in leveling the aggro will be perminent to the tank until the mob dies, because most mobs have a three second lifespan anyhow, but on a raid boss I can see how the hate added by the skill could be bypassed by high end DPS builds.

If this is true, then gone for good are the days of SnB tanks hiding behind their shields and using the intim button. My inner DM says this sucks, becasue tanking is becoming less and less of a viable option, and without the added hate of melee in the equation they will not likely be able to tank. However my inner player says this is good, because I got sick of people hiding behind their shields when the same amount of healing that is keeping the rest of us alive is also landing on them - they could be "timeh" every 6 seconds, -AND- swinging a weapon.

[Quikster]

It seems to me that this is only "broken" in the end game where raid bosses or named mobs wont always change aggro due to intimidate for the full 6 seconds.

It used to be thought that intimidate was a 6 second burst of auto aggro, and hiding behind a shield and hitting intim every 6 seconds was good enough to hold aggro, where nowdays I am more inclined to believe it adds a large amount of hate, but still has to beat the next person in line who in the end game is likely a THF with eSOS or a TWF with epic khopesh, in order for the aggro to change. In most cases in leveling the aggro will be perminent to the tank until the mob dies, because most mobs have a three second lifespan anyhow, but on a raid boss I can see how the hate added by the skill could be bypassed by high end DPS builds.

If this is true, then gone for good are the days of SnB tanks hiding behind their shields and using the intim button. My inner DM says this sucks, becasue tanking is becoming less and less of a viable option, and without the added hate of melee in the equation they will not likely be able to tank. However my inner player says this is good, because I got sick of people hiding behind their shields when the same amount of healing that is keeping the rest of us alive is also landing on them - they could be "timeh" every 6 seconds, -AND- swinging a weapon.

Not as of pre u7. I intim'd liliat often with large numbers of big bad esos users, even before the esos nerf. I never had an issue locking her down.

[Zadkiele]

The boss gets the intimidate symbol above their head then buggers off.

If the person intimidating pounds the key, or presses it the fraction of a second it pops, then you can get this behavior - it seems they have protection against someone hacking the client or the network code by having a check on the server side as well as the client side that enough time has elapsed since the last use, but if your last use lagged slightly between the client and the server, then to the server, less than 6 seconds has elapsed, and it invalidates it.

TM

[Chai]

Not as of pre u7. I intim'd liliat often with large numbers of big bad esos users, even before the esos nerf. I never had an issue locking her down.

Yeap, same all the way back to the early shroud days where runs were 4 and 5 rounds. I could keep the boss locked by holding shift down and and pushing intim every 6 seconds.

I am wondering which it is though. Is intim working differently, or are the bosses just on a different style aggro AI than the rest of the game?

Can you still keep the eDQ locked hiding behind a shield currently?

[Zadkiele]

No, Intimidate does add points of hate, in addition to the other effect.

This agrees with my own observations - when working with a good group that focusses DPS on each monster in turn, if I turtle and intim a group of mobs, once the group has taken down the first couple of mobs I can stop intimidating and I'll continue to hold agro for a while, even though I know my DPS is much lower than the others attacking.

Another feature of hate that not a lot of people know about is that healing causes hate - if I turtle tank with someone healing me and no-one else attacking, and then stop intimidating, the mob(s) will eventually go for the person healing me.

Zad

[MrWizard]

Been running with various groups as well as various intimitank builds and it seems like bosses that get intimidate ignore the person intimidating. ToD being the one I experienced the most.


Haven't seen another thread so if there is one please link it here but it seems like the skill is definitely not WAI. The boss gets the intimidate symbol above their head then buggers off.

Is this in some way due to paladins gains it as a class skill? Is there any mention of a fix....
Going to check the known bugs thread now again but hadn't seen anything before.

I did VoD last night. He turned a few times, but I was fighting and had autoattack on. Both of these can cause an issue of turning sometimes.

I would be more inclined to point out an issue with lag when clicking anything in my toolbar. Switching weapons, using a pot, stance, anything, thoughout all time in ddo last night caused a 'freeze' during the switch.

I think this 'freeze' could be part of an issue if everyone is getting it. I know it made it unplayable for me and I quit the game last night due to the freezing lag when switching.

clicking intim caused a small freeze too.

[Quikster]

Yeap, same all the way back to the early shroud days where runs were 4 and 5 rounds. I could keep the boss locked by holding shift down and and pushing intim every 6 seconds.

I am wondering which it is though. Is intim working differently, or are the bosses just on a different style aggro AI than the rest of the game?

Can you still keep the eDQ locked hiding behind a shield currently?

No idea

[Kasen_Darksword]

Epic DQ works fine behind a shield. I have tanked two of them since the update on Khenti.

[aurum1]

Maybe they have added this feature to make the warchanter -10% fort song more fun!!!

In a more serious note I am pretty sure this came up not too long ago when the timers were all kinda messed up (cure pot twitch etc) and it was a problem with hitting anything right when the cool down expired. Just needed to wait to hit it for a half second after it showed ready.