Sum of spell points you pay spell-like abilities

[Mateej]

Just to be sure - spell points you pay for spell-like abilities are cumulative, ie if I want to reach level 3 spell-like ability I have to pay 150 (25(I)+50(II)+75(III)) spell points? (Or each level states the total cost and level 3 spell-like ability costs only 75 SP?)

[bradleyforrest]

Just to be sure - spell points you pay for spell-like abilities are cumulative, ie if I want to reach level 3 spell-like ability I have to pay 150 (25(I)+50(II)+75(III)) spell points? (Or each level states the total cost and level 3 spell-like ability costs only 75 SP?)

The costs are cumulative, so you pay 150 total getting to a tier III SLA

[Muladas]

you have the SP costs for the actual spells right, but your forgetting to get the level 2 spell, you need spell mastery I costing 50 SP, and to get the 4th level spell you need spell mastery 2 for 75 SP.
so totals more:
(spell focus feat) 25 -> (spell master I) 125 -> (greater spell focus feat) 200 -> (spell master II) 375 -> 450

[Requiro]

you have the SP costs for the actual spells right, but your forgetting to get the level 2 spell, you need spell mastery I costing 50 SP, and to get the 4th level spell you need spell mastery 2 for 75 SP.
so totals more:
(spell focus feat) 25 -> (spell master I) 125 -> (greater spell focus feat) 200 -> (spell master II) 375 -> 450

Hmmm... I think the right math will be:
One specialization:

• 6 level: Tier 1 SL-a = 25 SP
• 6 level: Spell Mastery I = 50 SP
• 9 level: Tier 2 SL-a = 50 SP
• 12 level: Tier 3 SL-a = 75 SP
• 15 level: Spell Mastery II - 75 SP
• 15 level: Tier 4 SL-a = 100 SP
• 18 level: Tier 5 SL-a = 125 SP
• Sum = (-) 500 max. SP

Two specialization:

• 6 level: 2 x Tier 1 SL-a = 50 SP
• 6 level: Spell Mastery I = 50 SP
• 9 level: Tier 2 SL-a = 50 SP
• 12 level: Secondary Spell Master = 50 SP
• 12 level: 2x Tier 3 SL-a = 150 SP
• 12 level: Tier 2 SL-a (2nd) = 50 SP
• 15 level: Spell Mastery II - 75 SP
• 15 level: Tier 4 SL-a = 100 SP
• 18 level: Tier 5 SL-a = 125 SP
• Sum = (-) 700 max. SP

Full PrE + 3rd specialization

• 6 level: 3 x Tier 1 SL-a = 75 SP
• 6 level: Spell Mastery I = 50 SP
• 9 level: Tier 2 SL-a = 50 SP
• 9 level: Arcane Bolt = 50 SP
• 12 level: Secondary Spell Master = 50 SP
• 12 level: 2x Tier 3 SL-a = 150 SP
• 12 level: Tier 2 SL-a (2nd) = 50 SP
• 15 level: Spell Mastery II - 75 SP
• 15 level: Tier 4 SL-a = 100 SP
• 15 level: Arcane Blast = 100 SP
• 18 level: Tier 5 SL-a = 125 SP
• Sum = (-) 875 max. SP

[AyumiAmakusa]

Is Archmage even worth it? Seems like the amount of SP you 'pay' evens out the amount you 'save' with spell-like abilities (if not less).

[Jaid314]

Is Archmage even worth it? Seems like the amount of SP you 'pay' evens out the amount you 'save' with spell-like abilities (if not less).

well, prevailing wisdom is that you'd have to be nuts to actually buy every single spell-like available to you, as most of them are simply not worth taking.

for example, for my archmage, you'd be looking at 175 SP for the spell mastery enhancements, 100 SP for 2 level 1 SLAs (grease and hypnotism), and 50 for a level 2 SLA (web). 325 SP total. granted, i don't have a large net gain of spell points. but i *do* have so-cheap-it's-almost-free web and hypnosis (i consider grease to be a cost of getting web) some extra spell points, and a higher DC on my enchantment and conjuration spells.

basically, the important thing to remember is that the spell-likes are optional. and also that most of them aren't worth much at all, so carefully pick and choose the handful of good ones.

[Requiro]

Is Archmage even worth it? Seems like the amount of SP you 'pay' evens out the amount you 'save' with spell-like abilities (if not less).

Full PrE? No. But some aspects of Archmage are nice (specially on 6 level)
For me the best way is play Archmage for 12 level (more SP, rest are meaningless), then respec for Pale Master. If you are not WF, Pale Master are unquestioning superior to Archmage.
WF can take more benefit from AM because they can heal themselves easier then PM. But PM have so much more to offer then some more SP (+100? +150?) and some cheap SL-a.
I will copy my previous post in some other threat:

DC: (consider the same feat selection and using Yuglo pots for PM all the time)
Necro: PM 44 vs AM 42 --> PM win
Ench: PM 43 vs AM 43 --> Draw
Rest: PM 39 vs AM 38 --> PM win

What about anything else? Let’s see:

PM:

• stacking 100% Fortification
• 60 HP (PM I, II, II + 4 con lich form)
• 2 Fortification save (+4 Con)
• 1 Will save (+2 Wis)
• Undead Immunes
• Self-Heal
• More damage from Negative Spells (+45%, 9% critics)
• Familar…. Uhm.. I mean Undead summons
• Necrotics SL-a (Touch, Bolt, Blast)
• 10% Chance to get 30 more HP.
• (-)100SP for Lich form
• (+)150SP/15min from constant using Yuglo pots.
• Cost: 3 feats, 10 AP PrE + Prereq 18 AP (+3/6/9 AP for Familiar) --> PM win

AM:

• 225 SP (400 SP – 175 SP for +2 DC Ench + 1 Necro) and no SL-a
  or
• 200 SP and Tier1 SL-a
  or
• 125 SP and Tier1 SL-a (x2) + Tier2 SL-a
  or
• variant SP (from (–) 475 SP to (+) 200SP) and variant SL-a (from 1 SL-a to 11 SL-a)
• Cost: 4 feat, 11 AP PrE + Prereq 26 AP (+1 - 11 AP for SL-a)

[bradleyforrest]

Ench: PM 43 vs AM 43 --> Draw

So you're assuming that the AM won't use Yugo pots since it will bring their fort to sub 100% for this? I still plan on using them, even though I'm playing a fleshy

[Requiro]

So you're assuming that the AM won't use Yugo pots since it will bring their fort to sub 100% for this? I still plan on using them, even though I'm playing a fleshy

So you get 50% fortification and maybe 70% with Guild Augment. You can try. If you like stay half quest in backpack – that your fun not mine

[bradleyforrest]

So you get 50% fortification and maybe 70% with Guild Augment. You can try. If you like stay half quest in backpack – that your fun not mine

I'm not on the front line, that's for certain. I'm in the back doling out CC for the melees to mop up.

[Requiro]

I'm not on the front line, that's for certain. I'm in the back doling out CC for the melees to mop up.

So you must test is for yourself to belive

[bradleyforrest]

So you must test is for yourself to belive

Let's do some math real quick: We'll give the mobs the best threat range on weapons (15%) and we'll give them improved critical (30%).

50% of the time, they will miss from Displacement = 15%
50% of the time, they will fail to crit from fort = 7.5%

So that means, I'll get crit 7.5% of the time. I'm ok with that. I have the HP to survive.