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  1. #21
    Community Member Arkadios's Avatar
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    I like the ideas but the natural spell feat and familiars(for wizards, rangers and druids) should be added the natural spell feat should do like 15 more sp to cast or/and quicken doesn't work on it (basically making natural spell replace quicken in druid classes)

  2. #22
    Community Member kilagan800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    No actual change = disappointment

    Especially provided how long they've been promising this class.
    Better get used to disappointment then...

  3. #23
    Community Member Dexxaan's Avatar
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    Ideas....

    Lets see:

    * Forget Druids and be surprise when implemented...if ever.

    * Animal form is animal form... you get the beak, claws, Tail, multiple attacks and such and maybe retain a buff or 2........ BUT THATS IT...

    Otherwise the next thread will be:

    Why can't my Kodiak BearForm wield Dual Khopeshes?


    OMFG.

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  4. #24
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    i get the feeling they're going to do the transformation similar to the Divine Deities, categorized by race and some are only accessible by a certain race and through action points
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  5. #25
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    No actual change = disappointment

    Especially provided how long they've been promising this class.
    so they should just scrap the project altogether to save your disappointment right??
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  6. #26
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    so they should just scrap the project altogether to save your disappointment right??
    Wait! No no no!


    Quote Originally Posted by whitehawk74 View Post
    I totally agree with you there, and my answer is WarForged should not be allowed to be casters of any sort. I actually do not like idea of them being a playable 'race' as it does not really fit in with what i know and love about AD&D and Faerun / Krynn / Forgotten Realms that I have been escaping to for so many years.
    I would have considered them to be neutral and/or evil alignment too.
    One, there is no reasoning at all vs them being able to be wizards/clerics/bards/rangers/paladins/etc. Two, unfortunately for you, this is not Faerun or Krynn, it's Eberron and warforged are a part of the setting and its history. As far as being playable, they've been a playable race in PnP Eberron. Three, neutral or evil alignment? They're sentient constructs, they can be whatever alignment they feel inclined to. Also part of the Eberron setting is that alignment designations are a lot looser. Seeing a good or neutral red dragon is not something that odd. Don't like the Eberron setting if you want, but that's how warforged are.

    Personally, I'm not a big fan of Eberron either. I like the shifter race, but other than that I wouldn't pick Eberron if I had a choice on it. It doesn't bother me enough to make me avoid DDO though.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  7. #27
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    Default Warforged druid using Reforged prestige class and ironwood body

    http://www.uselessbabble.com/dnd/art...arforged.shtml

    Reforged (Races of Eberron) - Reforged is an interesting choice for a warforged character who wants to embrace his living aspect. By forsaking the machine parts of the character's body, a reforged loses many of the downsides about being a warforged character, such as the inability to naturally heal. If you're trying for an absolute transformation, load your character up on warforged feats while in the class, you'll lose them, but get an equal number of bonus feats when you complete the class.

    Landforged Walker (Secrets of Xen'drik) - This is one of the best choices for a warforged druid or ranger, especially if they have the ironwood body feat. The added protection and spellcasting abilities of the class make it a must have for nature-loving characters.

    Ironwood Body - While not as powerful as mithral, ironwood body allows a character to improve their protection and gain some minor damage reduction. The ones who benefit the most from this feat are druids, as it is one of the few body types that allow that class to cast spells while wearing it.

    I also like the idea, going in the other direction, of the warforged juggernaut. Eventually being immune to death magic, mind-affecting spells, non-lethal damage, 100% fortification, improved damage reduction, at the expense of no benefit from clerical healing.

    Also going along with these:

    Construct Essence Races of Eberron
    Humanoid Essence Races of Eberron
    Last edited by erichawk; 12-04-2010 at 09:37 AM. Reason: additional relevant information

  8. #28
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitehawk74 View Post
    I totally agree with you there, and my answer is WarForged should not be allowed to be casters of any sort. I actually do not like idea of them being a playable 'race' as it does not really fit in with what i know and love about AD&D and Faerun / Krynn / Forgotten Realms that I have been escaping to for so many years.
    I would have considered them to be neutral and/or evil alignment too.

    This is not Forgotten Realms. This is not Dragonlance. This is not Greyhawk, nor Darksun, nor Ravenloft. It is Eberron, where Warforged are a core element of the setting. I would suggest Neverwinter Nights if you want any of those other settings, as I highly doubt after 5 years Turbine will dump the existing setting and build a FR, DL, or other setting based game. A lot of the definitions and conventions of those settings are ignored in Eberron. Pick up the Eberron Campaign Setting off Amazon, they're cheap, as I just bought one for something like $5 including shipping.

    Furthermore, as sentient beings, there is absolutely no reasoning which would preclude them from either skill-based (Wizards arcane magic) or faith based (Druids, Clerics, Favored Souls) magical abilities and spells. Nor is there a reason to restrict their alignment; if Forgotten Realms can have more Chaotic Good Drow running around (where in FR Drow are a universally Chaotic Evil race) than half-elves, then Eberron can have a core race of the setting which has no particular affinity for any alignment be good or neutral as desired.

    The only casting class which you can really argue against Warforged having access to, is Sorcerer. As Sorcerer's magic is often described as coming from some form of magical creature in that character's bloodline. However, it can also be considered just a Sorcerer using sheer willpower to force the effects to happen, which would make it perfectly fine for a WF Sorcerer to exist.

    Otherwise, Warforged can learn magic, or have faith in any deity they wish to, or even dedicate themselves to the natural world, all to the point of gaining spells of one kind or another. They can even learn to play the lute, and gain magical abilities of a Bard. But I'd draw the line at Mandolin, since those have tiny necks. Maybe woodwinds as well, since I'm not entirely certain WF breathe, or can blow on one.

    I'm not overly fond of the setting, but it's not horrible. I do think a FR-based setting would have gathered more players initially than Eberron, but it's too late to worry about that. If it was me, the only element that I'd use is the anything can choose their own alignment part, since always having one thing be evil, and another always be good, annoys me. I usually play a Half-elf with a hatred of Elves.
    Last edited by azrael4h; 12-04-2010 at 02:03 PM.
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  9. #29
    Community Member Gorbadoc's Avatar
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    Druids have two things that were not traditionally in DDO: Shapeshifting, and animal companions.

    Animal Companions
    The animal companion issue seems to be under control. NPC UI has improved tremendously over the years, to the point where I trust the devs to make a DDO version of a druid's animal companion.

    Animal Form
    DDO still completely lacks shapeshifting. That's a problem. If druids are added, I want them to have actual shapeshifting. That is, I want to control a grizzly bear with a boatload of hitpoints, a vicious physical attack, and restricted use of items and abilities.

    The Pale Master undead forms have been a step in the right direction, but these are still a long way from what druids need. It's still the same character models and animations. Also, a Wraith Form melee build still uses the same items, weapons, and spells as before. His melee DPS increases as he farms Greensteel or Epic weapons, same as with every other class.

    Whatever the devs have in mind, I'm hoping they'll start testing shapeshifting with other classes first. Give Wizards and Sorcerers the spells Polymorph and Shape Change. If that's too much power for one spell, add Dragon Disciple as a prestige enhancement line for Sorcerers (they really do need a PrE; Archmage DCs are putting Sorcerers to shame). Just modify it from PnP rules so that at higher levels, it grants the ability to transform into a small dragon. Bam! There's your shapeshifter testing ground, and you only need one new model and set of animations.

  10. #30
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbadoc View Post
    Druids have two things that were not traditionally in DDO: Shapeshifting, and animal companions.

    Animal Companions
    The animal companion issue seems to be under control. NPC UI has improved tremendously over the years, to the point where I trust the devs to make a DDO version of a druid's animal companion.
    I do hope that they do do it this way, but rangers also had animal companions in PnP, and got no such thing here in DDO. Provided, a ranger's animal companion is not nearly as useful as a druid's, especially in combat. If they do it this way, I expect to either set up as a bonus feat (which you either pick a new more powerful animal, or just the same one to enhance it at various levels), or as something you could change out at a shrine or maybe in a tavern (to signify that it takes longer).
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  11. #31
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbadoc View Post
    Druids have two things that were not traditionally in DDO: Shapeshifting, and animal companions.

    Animal Companions
    The animal companion issue seems to be under control. NPC UI has improved tremendously over the years, to the point where I trust the devs to make a DDO version of a druid's animal companion.

    Animal Form
    DDO still completely lacks shapeshifting. That's a problem. If druids are added, I want them to have actual shapeshifting. That is, I want to control a grizzly bear with a boatload of hitpoints, a vicious physical attack, and restricted use of items and abilities.

    The Pale Master undead forms have been a step in the right direction, but these are still a long way from what druids need. It's still the same character models and animations. Also, a Wraith Form melee build still uses the same items, weapons, and spells as before. His melee DPS increases as he farms Greensteel or Epic weapons, same as with every other class.

    Whatever the devs have in mind, I'm hoping they'll start testing shapeshifting with other classes first. Give Wizards and Sorcerers the spells Polymorph and Shape Change. If that's too much power for one spell, add Dragon Disciple as a prestige enhancement line for Sorcerers (they really do need a PrE; Archmage DCs are putting Sorcerers to shame). Just modify it from PnP rules so that at higher levels, it grants the ability to transform into a small dragon. Bam! There's your shapeshifter testing ground, and you only need one new model and set of animations.
    This is an excellent post which sums up the mechanical obstacles to the implementation of the druid class.

    I really do wish that people would refer to PnP druids before writing out a wish list of all the things they do or don't want a druid to be able to do.

    I think druids could experience an almost direct implementation from what I remember of 3.5e with a few balancing tweaks:
    1. Animal forms don't replace physical stats but add or subtract depending on form (so a DPS/tank focused druid would invest heavily in physical stats). Animal forms don't stack with monk stances.
    2. Animal Empathy becomes an awesome skill which allows you to pocket animals for later use in some form or other (so a pet style druid will invest heavily into charisma).

    Druids should be an enhancement point starved class to force specialisation in 1 or 2 of the options of DPS shapechanging, hate/intimitanking shapechanging, offensive spellcasting, healing and pets. Examples include enhancement lines to increase stats while shapechanged, increase stats of all pets (summon natures ally, animal empathy and animal companion) etc.

    A new adventure chain should be introduced around the druid class including a new raid with optional animal lord minibosses that a pet focused druid can attempt to pocket for later use. It goes without saying that to pocket these uber animals on epic should only be possible roughly 3/4 time even with maximum possible animal empathy score (20 charisma drow with all possible bonuses to charisma and all possible buffs for example - make monks use that moment of clarity).

    Shapechange should give natural weapons. Possibly handwraps could be allowed to mold into the new form to give the opportunity to break DR. A metalline feat should be available to let you shapechange with specific mineral dr breakers (this balances with monks naturally breaking some DR) this feat should only be available with lots of investment into shapechanging (weapon focus: natural weapons as a prereq maybe?)

    All this results in 3 styles of druid (with hopefully a PrE for each style):
    1. shapechanger (DPS and/or intimitank and/or hatetank, high str/dex/con, combat feats)
    2. pets druid (sustained DPS through boosted animal companion, pocket animals from animal empathy and summon natures ally I-IX, high cha)
    3. offensive spellcaster (burst DPS like wizard, high wisdom, metamagic feats)

  12. #32
    Community Member Gorbadoc's Avatar
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    @ Wax_on,
    Wild Shape Weapons
    I like the direction of your thinking with weapons: from a loot standpoint, a druid in Wild Shape has a lot in common with unarmed monks. Both get their damage dice from an inherent property (the monk's fist and the druid's claw). The unarmed monk's hard-to-obtain "weapon" is actually an upgraded ring from the Tower of Despair. Similar end-game items could be designed for Wild Shape druids.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of a druid absorbing properties from an equipped weapon. If he does, though, wooden weapons would be more in the spirit of the class than handwraps.

    Wild Shape Ability Scores
    In PnP, Wild Shape is an ability score inversion: A frail but wise druid can transform into powerful creatures. I remember going to some lengths in Neverwinter Nights to get my druid's wisdom high enough to transform into a dragon (which turned out to be kind of a joke anyway, because then I couldn't fit through doorways). My base Strength and Constitution didn't matter; they were set to fixed values when I morphed.

    If Wild Shape instead applies bonuses to stats, Wisdom should at least give some bonus. Maybe on top of everything else, a druid in Wild Shape gets a percentage of his Wisdom bonus to Hit Points and/or Damage, with this percentage increasing for the more powerful Wild Shapes. After all, the more wise a druid is, the better he will be at controlling the shape change.

    I believe this is the way it should be. The wise caster druid should have a solid shapechange to fall back on. Balance issues can be resolved. The would-be caster/tank still has to split his feats and enhancements between improving his spells and improving his Wild Shape combat abilities. The Elyd Edge and Epic Elyd Edge didn't lead bards to break the game. As long as Caster druids and Shifter druids are each feat and enhancement intensive, Caster/Shifter druids won't break the game, either.

    Druid Builds
    You listed three druid types. I would add a fourth and a fifth:
    4. Non-shapechanged fighter. It's a traditional druid build. Look at Jaheira in the Baldur's Gate series (okay, technically she's a fighter/druid, but labels were a little different back in 2nd Edition).
    5. Shapechanged Caster. Change to a creature that allows unrestricted use of spells, proceed to use said spells. I think this is only possible with either the Natural Spell feat (assuming the devs add it and that they don't put restrictions on casting while in, say, Bear Shape), or with an Epic Wild Feat (which we're unlikely to see, as they're first available at level 21).

  13. #33
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbadoc View Post
    @ Wax_on,
    Wild Shape Weapons
    I like the direction of your thinking with weapons: from a loot standpoint, a druid in Wild Shape has a lot in common with unarmed monks. Both get their damage dice from an inherent property (the monk's fist and the druid's claw). The unarmed monk's hard-to-obtain "weapon" is actually an upgraded ring from the Tower of Despair. Similar end-game items could be designed for Wild Shape druids.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of a druid absorbing properties from an equipped weapon. If he does, though, wooden weapons would be more in the spirit of the class than handwraps.
    The shining star of druid weapons is the scimitar but it would seem very strange to me for a scimitar to "morph" into the druids natural weapon. I definitely think that druids are "unarmed" when fighting and so should benefit from the unarmed weapon sets that monks can use such as hand wraps and ToD rings. I do think though that some weapons should be restricted to monk or druid. Epic Mabar Wraps for instance should be monk only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbadoc View Post
    Wild Shape Ability Scores
    In PnP, Wild Shape is an ability score inversion: A frail but wise druid can transform into powerful creatures. I remember going to some lengths in Neverwinter Nights to get my druid's wisdom high enough to transform into a dragon (which turned out to be kind of a joke anyway, because then I couldn't fit through doorways). My base Strength and Constitution didn't matter; they were set to fixed values when I morphed.

    If Wild Shape instead applies bonuses to stats, Wisdom should at least give some bonus. Maybe on top of everything else, a druid in Wild Shape gets a percentage of his Wisdom bonus to Hit Points and/or Damage, with this percentage increasing for the more powerful Wild Shapes. After all, the more wise a druid is, the better he will be at controlling the shape change.

    I believe this is the way it should be. The wise caster druid should have a solid shapechange to fall back on. Balance issues can be resolved. The would-be caster/tank still has to split his feats and enhancements between improving his spells and improving his Wild Shape combat abilities. The Elyd Edge and Epic Elyd Edge didn't lead bards to break the game. As long as Caster druids and Shifter druids are each feat and enhancement intensive, Caster/Shifter druids won't break the game, either.
    I think the problem with this, and in fact for the DDO game in general, is that there is such a necessity to specialise to be viable for the harder end game content. For a DPS shapechanged druid to be viable it will require huge boosts to DPS from PnP to keep up with everything that the regular melee classes have. If it was possible to have this great DPS while keeping wisdom high then the druid would be way OP. The way to balance it I think would be to have forms add/subract from scores rather than replace entirely.

    I am confident that a spellcasting or pet druid will still have utility from inherent shapechanging abilities just as a cleric or favoured soul while specced for casting can still buff and have some decent melee abilities. Inherent abilities that forms give (particularly elemental forms) will be valuable as well.

    I don't like the idea of ultimate forms like dragon form. I much prefer the idea of having many natural animal shapes that could be useful to different styles. Badger for survival (aka intimitanking), bear for hate, wolf for flanking, panther for sneaking, monkey for setting off traps etc. This might sound a little boring but when you turn into the huge dire versions of them at higher levels then it can keep it very fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbadoc View Post
    Druid Builds
    You listed three druid types. I would add a fourth and a fifth:
    4. Non-shapechanged fighter. It's a traditional druid build. Look at Jaheira in the Baldur's Gate series (okay, technically she's a fighter/druid, but labels were a little different back in 2nd Edition).
    5. Shapechanged Caster. Change to a creature that allows unrestricted use of spells, proceed to use said spells. I think this is only possible with either the Natural Spell feat (assuming the devs add it and that they don't put restrictions on casting while in, say, Bear Shape), or with an Epic Wild Feat (which we're unlikely to see, as they're first available at level 21).
    I think DDO is definitely geared towards the model of 3 different PrE for each class at the moment to reflect 3 different play styles.
    Jaheira WAS a fighter/druid and if you splashed fighter and wanted to be a melee build then I'm sure there could be some flavour to that but I don't see that this would ever be a viable build considering spells and abilities that druids have access to which aren't compatible with full on weapon wielding.
    A shapechange focused druid would certainly have the natural spell feat to be able to cast buffs and heals while in animal form but as there would be an added SP cost to casting while shapechanged I don't see that an offensive specced caster would want to do this.
    Both of the above builds would be very viable when considering a solo styled druid which is one of the places that I think a druid will really shine. Dilute spellcasting a little bit to pick up some DPS and pets makes for an awesome solo build.

  14. #34
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Jaheira WAS a fighter/druid and if you splashed fighter and wanted to be a melee build then I'm sure there could be some flavour to that but I don't see that this would ever be a viable build considering spells and abilities that druids have access to which aren't compatible with full on weapon wielding.
    A shapechange focused druid would certainly have the natural spell feat to be able to cast buffs and heals while in animal form but as there would be an added SP cost to casting while shapechanged I don't see that an offensive specced caster would want to do this.
    Both of the above builds would be very viable when considering a solo styled druid which is one of the places that I think a druid will really shine. Dilute spellcasting a little bit to pick up some DPS and pets makes for an awesome solo build.
    I think that sort of build would be more viable than you think. I completely expect there to be 5 or 6 level druid splashes in builds for wildshape. That's 14/15 levels of a melee class + 5/6 levels of a d8 HD, average BAB class with some self buffing, an alternative combat/utility ability, and perhaps a little offensive casting. I could also see druid replacing wizard in some of the 12/6/2 wizard/fighter/rogue melee builds out there, it would have more hp, more melee combat ability and still have self buffing.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  15. #35
    Community Member DannyYea's Avatar
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    Druid classes should be able to heal Warforged normally, as Warforged are made from Livewood, so surely a druids natural spells would give that livewood an extra healing bonuses, i mean a druid who couldnt heal wood would be quite strange!?
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  16. #36
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    Druids should be like druids. They will require WIS to cast spells.
    They should get all basic animal shapes at appropriate level (4), and upgrading them should be feats or enhancements.
    They should get mostly nature based spells, with very few cleric and wizard spells. I'd also like rangers to use nature spells. That way rangers will turn into rangers again using D&D rules more closely.
    Finally both druids and rangers should get animal companions at appropriate levels. Druids get an animal companion at lvl 1 and Rangers lvl (4), with the choices being limited via their alignment in neutrality. Druids and rangers upgrade their animal companions to dire forms automatically via the appropriate level (12 for druid 16 for ranger).
    Druids cannot be outside neutral alignments. Druids shapes should be the following via the basic D&D rules: Bear, wolf, panther, badger, rat. Options for druids include D&D options such as upgrading to magical beasts for both companions and shapes (lvl 12) and upgrading to elementals for shapes and companions as well (16). Druids should get animal empathy like rangers.
    Finally druids animal empathy can be upgraded like ranger animal empathy. I also hope both will gain the ability to effect magical beasts at lvl 7 with wild empathy and at level 12 charm magical beasts with improved wild empathy.
    Druids should have access to healing spells at same rate as clerics, but have no access to mass healing. Instead druid spells for mass buffing or harming should be substituted, raise dead and resurrection should not be druid spells, as per D&D rules. All these things should be applied via enhancements and feats as needed to maintain balance.

    As such druids would be like the following at start:
    Allowed alignments: Any Neutral. Preferred Stat: Wisdom
    Gained Abilities at start: Animal Companion, Wildshape, Wild Empathy, Default Abilities
    Weapon Pro: All simple Armor Pro: Light Shield Pro
    Races Excluded from druid class: Warforged?
    Races Preferred with druid class: Orc, Half-Orc, Gnoll?, Shifter?, Lycanthrope?

    As they advance they would be like this with gained Abilities:
    4: NaturesStep(ImmuneTo Web, Grease, and other spells slowing movement)
    7: WildEmpathy effects MagicalBeasts, ImprovedWildEmpathy
    11: PoisonImmunity
    12: ImprovedWildEmpathy charms MagicalBeasts, DireAnimalCompanion

  17. #37
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinchenzoTJackal View Post
    Druids should be like druids. They will require WIS to cast spells.
    They should get all basic animal shapes at appropriate level (4), and upgrading them should be feats or enhancements.
    They should get mostly nature based spells, with very few cleric and wizard spells. I'd also like rangers to use nature spells. That way rangers will turn into rangers again using D&D rules more closely.
    Finally both druids and rangers should get animal companions at appropriate levels. Druids get an animal companion at lvl 1 and Rangers lvl (4), with the choices being limited via their alignment in neutrality. Druids and rangers upgrade their animal companions to dire forms automatically via the appropriate level (12 for druid 16 for ranger).
    Druids cannot be outside neutral alignments. Druids shapes should be the following via the basic D&D rules: Bear, wolf, panther, badger, rat. Options for druids include D&D options such as upgrading to magical beasts for both companions and shapes (lvl 12) and upgrading to elementals for shapes and companions as well (16). Druids should get animal empathy like rangers.
    Finally druids animal empathy can be upgraded like ranger animal empathy. I also hope both will gain the ability to effect magical beasts at lvl 7 with wild empathy and at level 12 charm magical beasts with improved wild empathy.
    Druids should have access to healing spells at same rate as clerics, but have no access to mass healing. Instead druid spells for mass buffing or harming should be substituted, raise dead and resurrection should not be druid spells, as per D&D rules. All these things should be applied via enhancements and feats as needed to maintain balance.

    As such druids would be like the following at start:
    Allowed alignments: Any Neutral. Preferred Stat: Wisdom
    Gained Abilities at start: Animal Companion, Wildshape, Wild Empathy, Default Abilities
    Weapon Pro: All simple Armor Pro: Light Shield Pro
    Races Excluded from druid class: Warforged?
    Races Preferred with druid class: Orc, Half-Orc, Gnoll?, Shifter?, Lycanthrope?

    As they advance they would be like this with gained Abilities:
    4: NaturesStep(ImmuneTo Web, Grease, and other spells slowing movement)
    7: WildEmpathy effects MagicalBeasts, ImprovedWildEmpathy
    11: PoisonImmunity
    12: ImprovedWildEmpathy charms MagicalBeasts, DireAnimalCompanion
    Druids get wildshape at level 5 not 4. And they get mass healing, just not Mass Heal, as in PnP. They shouldn't get raise dead or resurrection but they totally need to have reincarnate and use it to humorous effect.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  18. #38
    Community Member Gorbadoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    Druids get wildshape at level 5 not 4. And they get mass healing, just not Mass Heal, as in PnP. They shouldn't get raise dead or resurrection but they totally need to have reincarnate and use it to humorous effect.
    For anyone who doesn't get the joke. I vaguely remember the first edition version of the spell being even funnier, causing a random wild animal in the vicinity to receive the deceased person's soul. "Wait, I died, so now I'm a chipmunk? Stupid druid!"

  19. #39
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbadoc View Post
    For anyone who doesn't get the joke. I vaguely remember the first edition version of the spell being even funnier, causing a random wild animal in the vicinity to receive the deceased person's soul. "Wait, I died, so now I'm a chipmunk? Stupid druid!"
    Well it does give a chance to come back as a dire badger: http://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=R...te&oldid=34320
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  20. #40
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinchenzoTJackal View Post
    Druids should be like druids. They will require WIS to cast spells.
    They should get all basic animal shapes at appropriate level (4), and upgrading them should be feats or enhancements.
    They should get mostly nature based spells, with very few cleric and wizard spells. I'd also like rangers to use nature spells. That way rangers will turn into rangers again using D&D rules more closely.
    Finally both druids and rangers should get animal companions at appropriate levels. Druids get an animal companion at lvl 1 and Rangers lvl (4), with the choices being limited via their alignment in neutrality. Druids and rangers upgrade their animal companions to dire forms automatically via the appropriate level (12 for druid 16 for ranger).
    Druids cannot be outside neutral alignments. Druids shapes should be the following via the basic D&D rules: Bear, wolf, panther, badger, rat. Options for druids include D&D options such as upgrading to magical beasts for both companions and shapes (lvl 12) and upgrading to elementals for shapes and companions as well (16). Druids should get animal empathy like rangers.
    Finally druids animal empathy can be upgraded like ranger animal empathy. I also hope both will gain the ability to effect magical beasts at lvl 7 with wild empathy and at level 12 charm magical beasts with improved wild empathy.
    Druids should have access to healing spells at same rate as clerics, but have no access to mass healing. Instead druid spells for mass buffing or harming should be substituted, raise dead and resurrection should not be druid spells, as per D&D rules. All these things should be applied via enhancements and feats as needed to maintain balance.

    As such druids would be like the following at start:
    Allowed alignments: Any Neutral. Preferred Stat: Wisdom
    Gained Abilities at start: Animal Companion, Wildshape, Wild Empathy, Default Abilities
    Weapon Pro: All simple Armor Pro: Light Shield Pro
    Races Excluded from druid class: Warforged?
    Races Preferred with druid class: Orc, Half-Orc, Gnoll?, Shifter?, Lycanthrope?

    As they advance they would be like this with gained Abilities:
    4: NaturesStep(ImmuneTo Web, Grease, and other spells slowing movement)
    7: WildEmpathy effects MagicalBeasts, ImprovedWildEmpathy
    11: PoisonImmunity
    12: ImprovedWildEmpathy charms MagicalBeasts, DireAnimalCompanion
    Maybe my memory of PnP druids is different, or are we referring to different editions?
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm is a good resource for what a druid can and can't do and at what levels.
    Druid's are specialist clerics. In 2nd edition PHB druid was given as an example of a specialist cleric. For this reason, they have many spells in common with clerics but of course they have a modified spell list. For one thing, druids have their healing spells deferred by 1 level. Druids do receive mass cures but miss out on mass heal as it is deferred out (9th + 1 = 10, so don't get it). No raise dead or resurrection but reincarnation instead (which, after being reincarnated, you can cast polymorph other spell possibly to return to normal form for DDO practicality.)
    Druids have a special list of weapons that they can use and can only use armour made of natural materials (padded, leather, hide, wooden shields. Can wear heavy armour or use tower shields made of hide or wood but need proficiency for it such as dragonscale).

    I do like the idea of druids being able to do something with warforged if they are made of wood.

    Multiclassed builds like Jaheira I'm sure will exist and be fun but I doubt that they will be optimal. Wildshape gets exponentially better with dire, huge and elemental shapes coming at later levels so I don't imagine that level 5 wildshape will be viable for a melee build. However, almost pure kensai builds are viable unarmed so druid might add to those builds.

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