A Public Service Announcement

[Ganolyn]

Whatever happened to the sense of challenge while playing a game?

Seriously, do we all have to make the perfect builds for level 20 raiding and epics?

Well, they've made it so you can't design a character with any legs, but it doesn't really matter because the place is just drowning with crutches.

[Martdon]

actually, you can even dump strength. you have to be choosy about what you carry, but i even have a (base) 6 strength halfling rogue who stays well under light load capacity by the simple use of +6 strength gloves, no rare gear to boost strength or anything. he hauls around usually 2-3 heavy repeaters at any given time plus ~3,000 bolts, several stacks of potions, several stacks of scrolls, and wears leather armor (not cloth, which would be lighter). i can even loot a couple of suits of full plate before i start worrying about medium load. and up until recently, a few handheld weapons for the rare situations where it was a better idea than ranged (usually involving portal beating with a holy GCB and a vicious GCB weapon). i still carry a finesse light mace of GCB for smite construct and (for the time being) wrack construct though. plus of course there's a bunch of random junk in there (collectables in bags, ingredients in bags, etc).

so really, you can definitely dump strength. oh, there'll be times when it sucks, for sure (i really hated ray of enfeeblement at low levels) but it's not impossible.

I agree with you, I more meant to point out that the only other stat you may want on every class, is STR. Mostly for enfeeblement. (DEX monks, low level, Hobogoblin Cleric. Ugh)

[Aranticus]

I dont think Shroud is good example of endgame.
Plus, I don't think there is any good number of HP that always lest you avoid being one-shotted. For example, roll 1 in epiv VON1 on shaman's disintegrate save throw, and you lose ~400HP. If you're very unlucky and get shotted by 2 disintegrates, and fail both saves, nothing is going to save you.

no its not endgame but thats where a base number of hp becomes really important. its also funny you skipped over my tod example

there are a lot of other examples, evon6 djinni chain lightning, edq spinning blades, etc

@ TOPIC

IMO, getting to low con is bad, but I've seen worse things (like wiz with maxed con and 8 int on lv4, saying he won't need reroll, because he'll get int at level ups). Con is not most important stat in game, its, in most of builds second most important , and third most important for all other builds.
About getting HP, equipping GFL items, wearing minos legens, getting +45HP on greensteel is better way than using a lot of attribute points on to much con.

but at the very least, you still want your con to start at 12 or 14 depending on race

[CaptainCameo]

Start with 12 or 14 CON at least. THank you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



This is what I meant. You absolutely need at least 10 to 14 CON to survive. People don't want to pick your sorry ass off the ground after you get hit by a kobold. If you have 8 Con, you're actually LOSING hp. Because having an 8 mean you get -1 to your hp every time you level up. You might think "Oh 1 hp doesn't make that much of a difference."

Well guess what? It's going to. If you don't have a CON item, and you don't have any natural CON at all, you might as well /death yourself now.

Let's do the calculations now to show you the difference.


First a fighter with 14 CON and a +6 CON item at level 20

at lvl 1 roll 1d10 for hp

let's for argument's sake say every roll is an 10. A statistical anomaly.

That would be 10+2 =12 hp to start off. That's without the heroic durability feat that adds 20 or so hp at lvl 1

10+2=12
12x20= 240 hp

Now to add the +6 CON item which will give an extra +3 to CON

3x20=60
60+240= 300hp

300 Hp without any feats or buffs. just the +6 Con item and 14 base.



Now let's roll the no CON dude. Same level and class with 10 each time.

10-1=9 hp.

Ok, not much difference at the first level. Let's skip ahead to level 20

10-1=9
9x20= 180

Oh wow. Isn't that horrible? I guess one point does make a difference huh?

Even with the +6 Con item, low CON buddy would still only get about as much as the other one without his CON item.

On DDO, the enemies can do over 30 damage a hit and even more on epic. 300 hp is too low for an epic quest in the first place. In order to get enough hp to survive in an epic quest, you need to get hp items, feats and enhancements. Having 8 CON means that you probably won't even be able to get 350 hp without difficulty.

This is why people must stop making characters with only 8 CON. Even at lower levels, you can feel the difference. And your party members can also feel it, right in the inventory slot your soulstone takes up.

[Musouka]

sure, which server are you on? i'd roll up a 6 con elf monk in windstance to give you a challenge

+1 I'll agree with that, but I'd probably get annoyed with a 6 con toon before getting 8 levels into the game. However, I'm sure with a lot of adjustment, and dependency on a 24-hour 7 day a week cleric or hireling, it may be done. Though it probably will ensure you lots of blacklisting. A 6 con would probably not be allowed the opportunity to farm for gear that would boost up CON toward endgame, like GS HP, or even TOD sets.

I guess the best advice, don't leave your con low without reason.

[Battlehawke]

I've been trying to reverse the reputation of rogues the last year and building 500+ Hp Rogues with lots of DPS, and low and behold I'm in a shroud run the other day with a rogue that dies in part ONE....and then very often throughout the other parts.... Finally someone said "dude.. how many HP do you have" He said around 180ish!!!! He was level 20!!! OMG!!! How do you not get frustrated with that? HP are very important ladies and gents...

Battlehawke