Comments: end-game UMD is 17 (before items), which should be sufficient for most things. This build lacks any gear. So, add in +6 charisma, and end-game UMD (minus any items that might grant a + to UMD) would be 20.
The added +3 bonus from a +6 charisma item would also bump his saves up by 3 each, and will make his intimidate 47 before other items.
I modified the planner to allow Paladins to have Intimidate as a class skill. I also modified the cost of the skill increases to 1/1/1/1 to reflect that change as well.
Build is designed around very high intimidate. Uses a bastard sword, though you could use a khopesh if you wish, and a tower shield.
Stalwart defender should increase the amount of dex allowable to be used as AC for heavy armor. This build has a base 14 Dex, but with a +6 dex item, you should see some increase to AC and reflex saves as a result - +5 with a 20 dex.
Recommended gear: +6 str, +6 con, +6 cha, +6 dex items. +15 intimidate item (which should put him around +62 intim).
note: this is a 32-pt build.
Revised based on feedback. Thank you.
I welcome more feedback!
Dropped wisdom to 8, raised Dex to 14. Lowered starting con a little. Read a +1 int tome at level 3 to qualify for combat expertise.
With extra skill points, I raised Balance, and stopped raising Jump at level 15 or so. Put extra points into Swim instead.
to do: Review enhancements to take
Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male (18 Fighter \ 2 Paladin) Hit Points: 352 Spell Points: 0 BAB: 20\20\25\30\30 Fortitude: 21 Reflex: 12 Will: 10 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 16 22 Dexterity 14 14 Constitution 14 16 Intelligence 12 13 Wisdom 8 8 Charisma 14 16 Tomes Used +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 4 13 Bluff 2 3 Concentration 2 3 Diplomacy 2 3 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 2 3 Heal -1 1 Hide 2 2 Intimidate 6 44 Jump 7 23 Listen -1 -1 Move Silently 2 2 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a Repair 1 1 Search 1 1 Spot -1 -1 Swim 3 12 Tumble n/a n/a Use Magic Device 4 17 Level 1 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I Level 2 (Paladin) Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I Enhancement: Human Versatility I Level 3 (Paladin) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I Level 4 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons Enhancement: Human Versatility II Enhancement: Fighter Strength I Level 5 (Fighter) Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery I Level 6 (Fighter) Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II Level 7 (Fighter) Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II Level 8 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I Level 9 (Fighter) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons Enhancement: Fighter Strength II Level 10 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II Enhancement: Fighter Bastard Sword Specialization I Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I Level 11 (Fighter) Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III Level 12 (Fighter) Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Slicing Blow Enhancement: Fighter Strength III Level 13 (Fighter) Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I Level 14 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II Level 15 (Fighter) Feat: (Selected) Dodge Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I Level 16 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate IV Level 17 (Fighter) Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II Level 18 (Fighter) Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III Level 19 (Fighter) Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II Enhancement: Fighter Bastard Sword Specialization II Level 20 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III Enhancement: Human Versatility III
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Thread: Critique this build
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10-21-2010, 05:51 PM #1Community Member
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Critique this build
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10-24-2010, 12:39 PM #2Community Member
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dps
How well will the build dps at end game? From what I've read tank dps is important as being able to take hits.
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10-24-2010, 04:32 PM #3Community Member
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I'll go through what I would do:
Originally Posted by der_kluge
1) Drop wis to 8. Cha to 10-12. Your intim will still get very high, and you'll still get a nice bonus to saves.
2) Improve dex to the 14-15 range.
3) Improve int to 11, so you can get to 13 with tomes (if you have +3 tomes ignore this).
4) Skills: Put points into balance. Jump isn't necessary.
Feats:
-Bastard Sword? Khopesh does more damage, unless you are sword and boarding and have the two handed fighting feats, which you don't. To be honest (now this is just a playstyle choice), even then I would still take khopesh, because I find it more useful to have the top dps I can for dps situations, and aren't as concerned with dps in certain tanking situations. Still, bastard sword will be fine if you pick up the thf feats.
-Power critical is useless.
-Brutal throw is useless.
-SF: UMD is probably not going to be that useful - leave it up to you. Depends if you start trying to cast difficult scrolls.
-CLeave/Great Cleave- I have never met someone who finds them truly useful.
-you could consider bullheaded.
-I find improve critical piercing nice to have in addition to slashing.
-Dodge is a nice little bonus to AC.
So, changes?
You want to tank -you need Combat Expertise. It would be nice to have dodge. You should probably grab combats feats - either the THF chain, or the TWF chain (with a starting dex of 15).
Hope that helps.Last edited by BoBoDaClown; 10-24-2010 at 04:34 PM.
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10-25-2010, 01:25 PM #4Community Member
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Not a big fan of negative values. Given the finite number of slots, I can't guarantee that such a character would have space available for a +wis item. Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown
Why on Earth would I want to do that? This guy would be wearing full plate armor, and *at best* would get a max dex modifier of +1. So, any dex above a 12 would be a waste.2) Improve dex to the 14-15 range.
An Int of 11 (or 13) gains you nothing. Everything comes with even increments. Only real reason to increase int to 11 is to read a +1 tome at level 3 for some added skill points from then on out. Not a bad suggestion, but he's not exactly hungry for a ton of skills anyway.3) Improve int to 11, so you can get to 13 with tomes (if you have +3 tomes ignore this).
I thought about it, but balance is a cross-class skill. So, I can't really get it very high. Maybe 4 or 5 ranks. I wouldn't want to sacrifice too much jump, which I find extremely useful in the game. Having played a cleric with no jump, I know how much of a difference it can make. Besides, if you have sufficient strength, nothing should really be knocking you down too much. Balance is only useful for have fast you get back up from prone.4) Skills: Put points into balance. Jump isn't necessary.
Bastard sword is mathematically superior to khopesh. If you make 20 attacks with both weapons, and assuming you miss on a 1, and hit with every other roll, and you roll every +to-hit from 2 to 20, and do perfectly average damage for every attack, you end up with 103.5 points of damage from the khopesh, and 115.5 damage from the bastard sword. Both are one-handed exotic slashing weapons. No idea why you're talking about THF feats. Neither requires THF, and neither are used two-handed.Feats:
-Bastard Sword? Khopesh does more damage, unless you are sword and boarding and have the two handed fighting feats, which you don't. To be honest (now this is just a playstyle choice), even then I would still take khopesh, because I find it more useful to have the top dps I can for dps situations, and aren't as concerned with dps in certain tanking situations. Still, bastard sword will be fine if you pick up the thf feats.
Given the number of people who farm bloodstones, adding a +4 to confirm critical hits seems far from useless. It's not a named bonus. It should stack with everything. Care to elaborate on why you think it's useless?-Power critical is useless.
I wouldn't say it's useless, but I agree it's probably the most easily discarded of all the feats I've chosen. I was intended to have him use something like throwing axes, so taking something like imp. crit ranged wouldn't be terribly useful, though admittedly a longbow is probably more useful overall. Someone in another thread mentioned the importance of Quickdraw, which seemed odd to me. But I might consider replacing this with QuickDraw.-Brutal throw is useless.
Really not about casting difficult scrolls. It's about using race and alignment restricted items.-SF: UMD is probably not going to be that useful - leave it up to you. Depends if you start trying to cast difficult scrolls.
Ok, fair enough. I don't know. I'll have to research those some more.-CLeave/Great Cleave- I have never met someone who finds them truly useful.
Indeed - if cleave/great cleave are worthless as y ou say, then Bullheaded would indeed be a viable replacement feat.-you could consider bullheaded.
Good suggestions.-I find improve critical piercing nice to have in addition to slashing.
-Dodge is a nice little bonus to AC.
Don't need either THF or TWF, since he's a sword and board bastard sword/tower shield build. How does Combat Expertise work - how much AC does it add and how long does it last? It seems overly expensive to get.So, changes?
You want to tank -you need Combat Expertise. It would be nice to have dodge. You should probably grab combats feats - either the THF chain, or the TWF chain (with a starting dex of 15).
Thanks for the feedback!Hope that helps.
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10-25-2010, 02:52 PM #5Community Member
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In red above. Originally Posted by der_kluge
Also, other good feats to consider include Force of personaliy to bump your will save by using your charisma mod instead of your wis mod.
Good luck
Aerak the Bulwark-Awryn Shadowblade-Aerrik Lightbringer
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10-25-2010, 05:33 PM #6Community Member
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10-27-2010, 06:29 PM #7Community Member
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10-28-2010, 04:22 AM #8Community Member
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I assume you want more feedback? Originally Posted by der_kluge
This looks a lot better.
A couple of things:
-Slicing blow - this won't be worth it.
-THF - I really would have thought you would get these. It enables glancing blows while you use your bastard sword - the advantage of a bastard sword. So, you would get 50% based damage as a glancing blow, and 9% chance of a special effect (i.e. vorpals). Plus, it would help your standing dps when you pull a two hander and go to town on someone like Harry.
-I'm not sold on cleave. I'm not sure how aware you are of the game mechanic, but basically it will lower your dps while using it, so the only use is when you are fully turtled up and shield blocking. It will allow you to do one quick hit per cool down while fully turtled up - I just wouldn't have thought that this very situational use would be worth it. When I'm playing my tank I'm normally in:
1) Full dps mode. Cleave won't be helpful.
2) Semi dps tank mode - i.e shield up, but swinging - still doing more dos than using cleave.
3) Shield block tank mode- will that little smidgen of dps really make a difference, while you have 7 other melees swinging?
However, I'm willing to admit the cleave issue might be a play style thing.
HTHServer: Thelanis
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10-28-2010, 10:50 AM #9Build Constructionist
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My two bits: put all your lvl-ups into STR; drop Cleave, Slicing Blow, and 1 other feat (SF UMD maybe?) to take the THF feats; GWF can be delayed as it's only a pre-req for SWF; can you squeeze in a 2H weapon spec. enh. as well as BSword?
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10-28-2010, 11:06 AM #10Community Member
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If you combine cleave with great cleave you can alternate the timers. It still isnt huge dps you are correct. If you use them in combo with a vorpal, cursespewer, imp destruction item it can help the party a fair bit. Its more of a trash mob thing than a boss thing. Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown
Aerak the Bulwark-Awryn Shadowblade-Aerrik Lightbringer
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10-28-2010, 11:08 AM #11Community Member
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I thought I'd ended up taking THF, but maybe I overlooked them.
Slicing blow not useful? It certainly *sounds* useful.
One final question - do you think it's worthwhile to take the two levels of paladin, or should I just spec it out as a 20th level fighter?
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10-28-2010, 02:09 PM #12Community Member
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I think he doesn't have great cleave. Originally Posted by EKKM
For trash mobs I would have thought he'd whip out a THer and go to town. So replace cleave, slicing blow and one other with the THF feats.Server: Thelanis
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10-28-2010, 02:11 PM #13Community Member
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As a 'tank' the pally levels do give you very nice saves. The other option is monk. I think all 3 routes are viable. Originally Posted by der_kluge
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10-28-2010, 02:35 PM #14Build Constructionist
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Higher saves vs higher DPS - which do you think is more valuable? Originally Posted by der_kluge
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