Horc Staff Master

[OldAquarian]

Horc: 13 Rogue/6 Fighter/1Monk

Acrobat II/Kensei I

(Considered Monk 6 instead of Fighter but really, really didn't want that much monk)

All level ups in STR

any comments appreciated

(swapped out Dragon Marks as they were a waste - better thrown damage now)

As far as skills go:

Didn't actually lay it out - but obviously
1 pt Tumble - Thats all you need
Max: UMD,DD,Search,Jump
only Some Balance (remember you will get fall immunity so not too much),
Some Spot, (more if you don't know where the boxes are) - seeing hiding enemies has value
Some Open Lock - don't need this maxed
Some Hide
Some Move Silently
Depending on your playstyle/tank throw in Bluff, Diplomacy
And then there is always Haggle
Possible Concentration if you want to use finishers, but not needed

You get alot of points, so its easy to catch skills up, during the last levels that are all rogue
Rogue levels are 9 each, so there is a lot of freedom here, but , if you want and have access, a +2 INT tome at 7 gives you 1 more per level

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.0 BETA
DDO Character Planner Home Page

beatstick 
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Orc Male
(6 Fighter \ 1 Monk \ 13 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 258
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 14
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    28
Dexterity            12                    15
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Brutal Throw
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Resilience


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Kensei Quarterstaff Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

[elgranmago13]

The only change I would see as a must would be to swap out your 2nd rogue feat to opportunist (grants doublestrike chance). Maybe your first too if DPS matters most to you.
Taking fighter earlier could get you stunning blow earlier, which is fun (tho not necessary) at lower levels.
Brutal Throw? It's your call, but I thought thrown damamge was based on STR already, so you'd just be gaining to-hit... which you probably won't need.

[OldAquarian]

The only change I would see as a must would be to swap out your 2nd rogue feat to opportunist (grants doublestrike chance). Maybe your first too if DPS matters most to you.
Taking fighter earlier could get you stunning blow earlier, which is fun (tho not necessary) at lower levels.
Brutal Throw? It's your call, but I thought thrown damamge was based on STR already, so you'd just be gaining to-hit... which you probably won't need.

Didn't think doublestrike works with qstaff, thought it was only TWF

[elgranmago13]

Doublestrike from Eladrin:
"A character with a double strike chance has a chance to make an additional attack roll with their main hand weapon any time they make a main hand attack, on the target of the first attack. (Note that two handed weapons count as “in the main hand” for these purposes.)"

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...t=doublestrike

[XL_Jockey]

I saw another Qstaff build where someone mentioned taking TWF feats as well as THF feats. Do both work with Qstaff? If so, is there an advantage from one over the other?

[unbongwah]

Lemme guess: you chose WF in the builder? I think you forgot about the -2 INT penalty for HOs; your build is 36 pts if I'm adding right.

If you don't care about AC, what about rogue 13 / barb 6 / ftr 1? Effectively you only lose 1 feat (since 2 of your 4 ftr feats go towards WF/WS); and you'd gain extra HPs, skill pts, PA enhs, moar Rage, etc. Could even dump-stat INT for max STR; dunno how important skills are to this build tho. Plus I just kinda like the idea of Ragin' Acrobat stick wielder.

[prayvios]

Lemme guess: you chose WF in the builder? I think you forgot about the -2 INT penalty for HOs; your build is 36 pts if I'm adding right.

If you don't care about AC, what about rogue 13 / barb 6 / ftr 1? Effectively you only lose 1 feat (since 2 of your 4 ftr feats go towards WF/WS); and you'd gain extra HPs, skill pts, PA enhs, moar Rage, etc. Could even dump-stat INT for max STR; dunno how important skills are to this build tho. Plus I just kinda like the idea of Ragin' Acrobat stick wielder.

he is choosing Orc if you look at the top it shows HORC and why get the 6barb when you want the extra feats to be able to get the ones you need? (not tryin to be rude or anything just askin.)

[unbongwah]

Builder hasn't been updated yet with HOs (or HEs); so he fudged it either by picking a different race or manually editing the config files himself. Either way, I don't think he included the -2 INT penalty.

For this build I'd say the critical feats are Toughness, PA, THF x 3, and Imp Crit Bludgeon. That's doable as rogue 13 / barb 6 / ftr 1, with 2 feats left over (e.g., Stunning Blow & Cleave for FB). I don't know if it's better from a DPS or anything else perspective, just proposing it as an alternative.

[voodoogroves]

Did you consider Rogue 13 / Barb 7?

good enhancements on barb 7

[OldAquarian]

Builder hasn't been updated yet with HOs (or HEs); so he fudged it either by picking a different race or manually editing the config files himself. Either way, I don't think he included the -2 INT penalty.

I picked Dwarf - Used a +2 STR tome at level 1, and then backed INT up 2 - what I forgot was the +2 CON

Anyway, I thought about Barb but was concerned about being feat starved
Will think about more barb again

Also thought it would be a waste to have so much rogue but not trap skills, also thought it would be fun to have a Giant Half Orc put down his Massive Weapon,walk up to the trap and say, "I got this"

[kernal42]

Also thought it would be a waste to have so much rogue but not trap skills, also thought it would be fun to have a Giant Half Orc put down his Massive Weapon,walk up to the trap and say, "I got this"

Even better: "Int rune? I got this."

[unbongwah]

I picked Dwarf

Figured it was dwarf or WF based on the CHA 6; had a 50/50 chance and guessed wrong. Typical...

Anyway, maybe base stats 20 / 12 / 14 / 12 / 8 / 6? I think that adds up to 32 pts.

Anyway, I thought about Barb but was concerned about being feat starved

I believe Brutal Throw and Quick Draw are all you have to give up going rogue 13 / barb 6 / ftr 1. Going barb 6 will also let you take Orcish Power Rage II for additional +2 STR when Raging.

[OldAquarian]

my Opinions in red.
No problem with a stick rogue/barb but the rogue/fighter/monk just has more synergy and upside.

One last thing, AcroIII still isn't out yet. If it adds even half of what I & II do to staff speed anything short of 18 rogue will seem a waste.

Thank you for that detailed breakdown - +1 Rep

As to Acro III - will need to see what that brings and what else has changed by then - likely 18/1/1 Fighter/Monk as nice as the cap is - at some point, too much SA means sitting doing nothing and extra feats will always be useful

[t0r012]

Thank you for that detailed breakdown - +1 Rep

As to Acro III - will need to see what that brings and what else has changed by then - likely 18/1/1 Fighter/Monk as nice as the cap is - at some point, too much SA means sitting doing nothing and extra feats will always be useful

There is always something to be said for extra damage. The rogue SA cap is very, very nice. Arguably the "best" capstone to be had anywhere.

For Acro III, if it is good, it is a tough call what if any split to use. 19/1monk, the 18/1monk/1 fighter also has its appeals and then again so does pure.

I'd probably be disinclined to go 18/1/1 personally. Giving up the 1d6 sneak and the last rogue feat is a bit steep for for fighter 1 which is a couple HP from level 10more from toughness AP and +1 to SB DC from tactics line. I just don't see the trade worth it for giving up one of the Class feats. given the choice i'd give up skill mastery but with only 4 skill mastery usually doesn't make my list.

the real dilemma for me would be 19/1 or Pure. windstance speed when unhasted + doublestrike is a lot as is the Wisdom bonus to AC add in Ki strikes for a little extra boost and it is a real tough call. On the whole the monk adds damage and a whole lot of possible defense but rogue cap 4d6 is a lot of damage and +2 int isn't bad in its own right.

I guess I'd have to buckle down and puzzle out the numbers for wind doublestrike damage + occasional ki strike + 1 more dex damage on sneak from wind 1 and compare that to the numbers from the cap. plus flurry of blows adding adding the 1 BaB is a help if you miss on more than a 1. Plus the Monk bonus Feat and lets not forget tiny little things like beating oozes with fists to avoid weapon damage.

Arrgghhh , just so many factors to consider, some of which don't lend well to straight number crunching.

Shooting from the hip I'd say 19/1 would be my choice as that one brings a lot of benefits even if it is reduced DPS vs. pure. But thats my choice if you are a powergamer DPS is the end all be all then you would go pure (and TWF STR kopesh assassin but that is beside the point).
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edit

also not such an awful idea to level 19/1 and grab the reincarnate for the cap to get the best of both worlds when you really need them. defense for leveling and max DPS at Cap.

[OldAquarian]

Shooting from the hip I'd say 19/1 would be my choice as that one brings a lot of benefits even if it is reduced DPS vs. pure. But thats my choice if you are a powergamer DPS is the end all be all then you would go pure (and TWF STR kopesh assassin but that is beside the point)

The extra dps from monk is always there, so when you can't do Sneak Attack damage, dps is higher. So it also adds flexibility and makes the math that much harder.

By the way - any comments on the actual build would be appreciated

[Anthios888]

But... 6 monk / 13 acrobat is SOOOO FAST! How could you not want to be so fast?!

[elyssaria]

But... 6 monk / 13 acrobat is SOOOO FAST! How could you not want to be so fast?!

Only SOOOO FAST when unhasted Otherwise it "only" gives 5% doublestrike + 1D6 Sneak attack damage and Shadow Fade (which I love).

/Khierra

[Dragon-Kin]

First - thanks to the OP for the build concept, very solid +1 rep.

I am also running this on my first TR, had a Big F Stick build capped and wanted to see if the Horc race would be a nice change, hey go from the smallest toon in the party to a monster sounded fun.

I can say that the DPS on this build is equal to or greater than my Exployter build at the same level. The glancing blows are making a huge impact on the low level content. I am also seeing what looks like cleave from NWN, even though I do not have the feat. I seem to kill mobs so fast the combat move continues and wipes out the rest of the nasties in a arch around me...

Now, my toon is well geared, but from the eyeball test your DPS numbers may be right on target. I have not run in a PUG that I did not lead the kill count by a nice margin to date, and I am an average player at best. When I do want to pour it on nothing seems to stand in my way.

Wonder how this will go at 12 and 13 when I get all my greensteel litII and +6 gear...

Thanks again for the great work here, really having fun with it!!

Look for Pivott on Khyber for a demo.

[PDRocks]

...as a compromise between fighter 6/monk 1 and fighter 1/monk 6?

For fighter you'd get enhancements and ability for weap. spec feat, and compared to fighter 6 would only miss:
+1 str
1 feat
kensai 1 (somewhat big, but would save APs for other things)

For Monk, you'd get healing amp 1, meditation, way of ___, wis+1, fast movement and fists of light. Compared to monk 6, you would miss:
prestiege class (enough APs for?)
level two stances (nothing too big other than more powerful strikes)
way of ____2
1 monk bonus feat
additional +1 wis


I'm not into the button mashing, so monk 6 for all the ki strikes is not as appealing to me. The loss of kensai seems like the biggest question mark.

[OldAquarian]

Wonder how this will go at 12 and 13 when I get all my greensteel litII and +6 gear...

At 12 - Gear upgrades
At 13 - 6 Rogue: boost from Acro I (noticably faster)
At 14 - 7 Rogue: biggest jump in Sneak Attack - +d6 SA, SA Training III
At 15 - Greater THF: a jump in glancing
At 16 - 9 Rogue: +d6 of SA
At 17 - Opportunist, SA Training IV
At 18 - Another +d6 of SA
At 19 - Acro II - another speed boost (and Immunity to falling)
At 20 - Another +d6 of SA (and Imp Evasion)

So choose your tanks wisely