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  1. #1
    Community Member stoolcannon's Avatar
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    Default Pure FB THF Dwarf: Min II or Lit II first? ...and other questions

    Ok so I've been following Shade's original dwarf build and I love it and now I'm finally starting to get some pretty good gear.

    I've picked up:
    Bloodstone
    Tharne's Goggles
    Levik's Bracers
    Draconic Necklace
    Scourge Choker
    Tempest belt (Can't think of the name +6 con and tempest set) to swap for the necklace for those times I wear my scourge choker.
    Breastplate of Destuction
    House D chain

    Weps:
    Tier 2 Lit II
    Tier 2 Min II
    +3 Holy Evil Outsider Bane
    +various other situational axes
    Antique GA + the shard - need seal and scroll (please ddo gods smile on me soon)

    Thinks I still want:
    Litany
    Epic Marilith Chain
    Spectrals (why oh why did I give away my last set and sell my 1st?)
    Madstones (rolled a 94 on them the other day and someone else rolled a 97 )

    Overall I'm really happy with how things are going for a character that's only 5 weeks old.

    My main questions are:
    1. Is it really worth it to stay chaotic neutral? It doesn't seem like it's going to hurt me too badly for wearing a litany when I manage to get one since the neg level only applies a -1 to rolls and doesn't give an actual negative level. There are just so many tasty "Of pure good" items out there that I can't use but at this point I'm so close to a Min II that I'm not really convinced a change would benefit me at level 20. If I had wanted to go good it probably would have been better to start that way from the get-go and changed to chaotic when I finally started pulling items that would benefit me.

    2. Lit II or Min II first. I'm really torn here. While the Min II is a better overall beater weapon I really want to start running ToD (Haven't ever done it before) and I know the Lit II is the preferred weapon for anything with Orthon's and Devils. I've only got the materials to make one or the other now (have 5 scales exactly and a couple surplus in the other larges). I'd appreciate recommendations.

    3. I'm going to build a defensive cloak for my next GS item and I've been thinking of a rad II cloak. While I'm not going to be getting all of the sneak attack damage the cloak would greatly enhance my survivability when it blinds everything that's hitting me. Especially considering I'm almost always the one with most of the aggro.

    However, I was also considering an earthgrab or other cloak that holds/freezes my opponent so I would autocrit and see those tasty 500's rolling across the screen.

    So Rad II greatly improves my own survivability while boosting the damage of rogues and others with sneak attack bonuses and earthgrab is going to enhance my damage output while also providing me with some protection.

    Which would you recommend?

  2. #2
    Community Member Hadrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoolcannon View Post

    My main questions are:
    1. Is it really worth it to stay chaotic neutral?
    Yes, stay neutral. In the long run, you won't even notice the problem with item restrictions. GS and epic crafted weapons and items will cover anything that pure good limits you from. Also, there are some places in the game where being good aligned means you'll take significant extra damage from unholy/evil based attacks.

    2. Lit II or Min II first. I'm really torn here.
    If I had to choose only one GS weapon that I could make, it would be a Lightning II.

    The mineral 2 can be replaced with relatively easy to complete epic crafting, or bettered with specific random drops for the few types of targets you usually need it for.


    3. I'm going to build a defensive cloak for my next GS item and I've been thinking of a rad II cloak. While I'm not going to be getting all of the sneak attack damage the cloak would greatly enhance my survivability when it blinds everything that's hitting me.

    However, I was also considering an earthgrab or other cloak that holds/freezes my opponent so I would autocrit and see those tasty 500's rolling across the screen.
    Earthgrab. It's cheaper to make as it's only a single shard, and it has a favorable save stat to freezing ice.

    The effect doesn't last as long as radiance, of course, but it is more in theme with a high damage build with virtually no AC. Radiance blinding won't make them miss you if your AC is garbage. It will just give them a bit of a to-hit penalty.

  3. #3
    Community Member stoolcannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadrian View Post
    Yes, stay neutral. In the long run, you won't even notice the problem with item restrictions. GS and epic crafted weapons and items will cover anything that pure good limits you from. Also, there are some places in the game where being good aligned means you'll take significant extra damage from unholy/evil based attacks.
    .
    That's what I've been thinking. I've built a pretty good storehouse of twink gear for my upcoming Half-Orc TR as well so I should be in pretty good shape to go that same route. Carnifex easily makes up for any damage resistance at early levels anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hadrian View Post
    If I had to choose only one GS weapon that I could make, it would be a Lightning II.

    The mineral 2 can be replaced with relatively easy to complete epic crafting, or bettered with specific random drops for the few types of targets you usually need it for.
    .
    This is what I've been thinking. I was going to make the Lit II the other night when I pulled my 2nd shard. I completed shroud since I got my shard and went to craft only to realize I'd fat-fingered my ingredients list and didn't have one already now I can't craft for another day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hadrian View Post
    Earthgrab. It's cheaper to make as it's only a single shard, and it has a favorable save stat to freezing ice.

    The effect doesn't last as long as radiance, of course, but it is more in theme with a high damage build with virtually no AC. Radiance blinding won't make them miss you if your AC is garbage. It will just give them a bit of a to-hit penalty.
    Thanks for the advice, I think I'll go that route, especially since it's cheaper to make and I'm low on materials. I can always make a rad II somewhere down the line to try it out.

  4. #4
    Community Member quityourjobs's Avatar
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    1. Epic Marilith Chain applies a neg level, which reduces your skills by 1, to-hit 1, saves by 1 and I think you lose 5 hps as well. Up to you if that's a good trade. I'd stay CN.

    2. Lit II does more damage in most situations and a DR breaker from the auction house does a fine job at the odd elite run. I crafted Lit II on my Barb, never regretted it.

    3. Earthgrab is a good choice as it's single-shard. I have freezing ice on my Barb, and it almost never goes off in epics (being a Fort save).

  5. #5
    Community Member Goldeneye's Avatar
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    2.)
    • Earthgrab (great in epics and cheap)
    • LitII (great DPS, better then MinII in 95% of the game)
    • Metalline of PG (then MinII if you got 24 spare larges)

    3.) Earthgrab cloak is cheap and easy to make. Summon clicky of earth elemental and earthgrab. If you get the new epic cloak, a single shard gs item is easier to part with.
    Last edited by Goldeneye; 10-20-2010 at 06:55 PM.
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  6. #6
    Community Member stoolcannon's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice folks. Lit II and grab it is

  7. #7
    Hero
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoolcannon View Post
    1. Is it really worth it to stay chaotic neutral?
    Yes. Litany and Marilith Chain. Epic DQ = alot more damage if you're good aligned. Pure Good items aren't all that, especially when you've got a MinII or eSoS.

    2. Lit II or Min II first.
    There's no debate: MinII first. You're going to be SOL if you try difficulties higher than normal and you don't have a MinII to break DR. I never made a LitII and it's never been an issue in all the elite and epic raids I have run.

    3. I'm going to build a defensive cloak for my next GS item and I've been thinking of a rad II cloak.
    If you want a guard, get Earthgrab Guard. Auto-crit = win. Blind is covered by Holy Aura from FvS/Cleric. Air Guard isn't terribly useful, but you do get a 2x 1:36 Haste clicky out of it. I went for the deluxe item and made a double shard Smoke Screen item (perma Blur with Displacement clicky).
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  8. #8
    Community Member chaos_master's Avatar
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    I currently have a +4 Met of PG greataxe and from what I've heard, farming for an eAntique Axe is far better than the grinding you'd have to do for a Min II, so I'm going with Lit II when I have all the ingredients I need.

    This has been quite a helpful thread for me, so thank you op
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  9. #9
    Community Member Hadrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoolcannon View Post
    Thanks for the advice, I think I'll go that route, especially since it's cheaper to make and I'm low on materials. I can always make a rad II somewhere down the line to try it out.
    I'd suggest making a radiance falchion instead of a wearable item. Especially if you have some sneak attack bonus from items, you can do quite a bit of reliable damage. On trash that isn't fire immune or immune to crits, radiance on a falchion can be superior to lightning 2 based on its more even damage distribution. That is, you're not hoping to get a lightning bolt on something that is going to die in a few swings, but benefitting from the extra light damage on crits and the potential for sneak attack damage even when you have aggro.

    Lightning bolts give about 12 bonus DPS (swing) assuming they go off at regular intervals, so if your sneak attack damage is in that range, it makes radiance a good choice for trash.

    Just keep in mind that if you do not have aggro, you're getting all of the benefits of the lightning 2 along with the sneak attacks.

    The other main problem with radiance is that so many things are immune to fire but take full damage from lightning, especially most of the major end game bosses.

    These two facts make lightning the obvious better choice for your first/only GS weapon, but still a radiance rapier/scimitar/falchion is a very nice tool to have as a melee considering all of the above and the other small effects of the blindness debuff.
    Last edited by Hadrian; 10-26-2010 at 02:05 AM. Reason: Clearing up lightning damage. The S in DPS is "swing" in this case.

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