Double TR Half-Orc: Pure vs. 18/2 Fighter

[Carpone]

Just checked and fury III, BF III, or EAB III all meet the prereqs. I guess fury III seems like the best choice currently.

Also brute fighting still does not work while raged.

Fury III is horrible, and so is Fury II for that matter. The bonus only lasts while you are below the threshold. You won't be below the threshold for long to realize the STR bonus.

Where did you see that Brute Fighting is still bugged on Lammania? All reports indicate it's working.

[Quikster]

Fury III is horrible, and so is Fury II for that matter. The bonus only lasts while you are below the threshold. You won't be below the threshold for long to realize the STR bonus.

Where did you see that Brute Fighting is still bugged on Lammania? All reports indicate it's working.

Havent seen any reports. link em pls.

I went on, rolled up a half orc barb, and tested it



Edit: BTW I aint arguing with ya about the fury lines, simply pointing out that they dont need to be taken for horc rage enhancements. I agree, they are pretty useless. Cant wait to get yelled at for healing someone about to die because I lowered their dps Fine see how much dps you do at -10

[ddobard1]

First Toughness adds (+103 HP.) more than 10% to you HP! So it's almost unavoidable.

The OP talks basically about 2 extra feats versus Mighty Rage and Capstone.

Let's pick 7 Feats: THF; ITHF; GTHF; Toughness; Cleave; Power Attack; Improved Critical. That's the basic.
K there is Stunning Blow and Barbarian Past Life:Berserker's Fury.

My flavor is for pure, more Strength and Glancing Blows at the end, but the other option is viable too, it's more tactical and more versatile.

I feel they are balanced.

[Hadrian]

First thing you should consider is going pure fighter and forget about barb altogether.

It actually was the first thing I considered, but my logic for why I went barb with this build is a bit odd.

This character has weapons of different types crafted, and would ultimately like to use a SoS. The barbarian isn't weapon restricted, and so it won't get in the way as it would if my great sword kensai's level 8 green steel is a maul.

My other strength melee is an old fighter multiclass that I plan to rebuild. His level 8 GS weapon is a great sword, and so I was thinking he'd be my eventual double TR Kensai.

I am still not positive on what I will do, but comparing these options is the step I am at now. Either way, I am going to TR paladin first, then barb, fighter, or some combination. So I have that full paladin life to decide.

The OP talks basically about 2 extra feats versus Mighty Rage and Capstone.

Let's pick 7 Feats: THF; ITHF; GTHF; Toughness; Cleave; Power Attack; Improved Critical. That's the basic.
K there is Stunning Blow and Barbarian Past Life:Berserker's Fury.

You missed a feat choice that is sort of important, and mentioned several times in my description of the two options. You also missed the best benefit of the fighter splash - melee alacrity action boost. It seems obvious that you did not read over the two options and are unclear as to what they actually are.

[Quikster]

First Toughness adds (+103 HP.) more than 10% to you HP! So it's almost unavoidable.

The OP talks basically about 2 extra feats versus Mighty Rage and Capstone.

Let's pick 7 Feats: THF; ITHF; GTHF; Toughness; Cleave; Power Attack; Improved Critical. That's the basic.
K there is Stunning Blow and Barbarian Past Life:Berserker's Fury.

My flavor is for pure, more Strength and Glancing Blows at the end, but the other option is viable too, it's more tactical and more versatile.

I feel they are balanced.

Have you worked out the ap on a half orc thf melee yet? Doesnt seem you have.


As a side note, how are you getting 103 hitpoints? Seems youre fudging that number a bit, its not quite that high even if you could afford all the toughness enhancements.

[incineration]

Have you worked out the ap on a half orc thf melee yet? Doesnt seem you have.


As a side note, how are you getting 103 hitpoints? Seems youre fudging that number a bit, its not quite that high even if you could afford all the toughness enhancements.

22 (base)
40 (barb enhancements)
20 (racial)


He's thinkin they get all the toughness enhancements, (which they don't, only up to tier 2) even if it WAS a wf or dwarf, they would be getting only 102 hp from it

[Quikster]

22 (base)
40 (barb enhancements)
20 (racial)


He's thinkin they get all the toughness enhancements, (which they don't, only up to tier 2) even if it WAS a wf or dwarf, they would be getting only 102 hp from it

Youre way to nice, I like the way I put it better


Thats a lot of AP to spend on hitpoints, there are better options for the half orc barb/fighter. I would say the OP would be very hard pressed to fit in more than 2 toughness enhancements, that means his hitpoints go up by around 40. Very negligible at endgame.

Hes going to need to take:

extra action boost 3
fighter str 1 (if he goes that route, which im guessing he will)
Fighter haste I
Orc str II
Orc melee damage II
Orc rage II
Orc Power Attack III

He might take orc fury I and the weapon aptitude as well.

sure he might be able to fit in 2 points for toughness by dropping something somewhere, but for 40 hitpoints over the other feats which seem to add more to the build?

Consumers ap breakdown earlier in the thread missed the melee damage enhancements which will offset the three points he has in toughness (though he only needs 2 i believe 1 barb toughness 1 and 1 for racial toughness 1)

[PCNONSENSE]

I was following this thread close, as I am going to TR into a TWF HO today - past life Clr.

After the discussion here, I am afraid I am even more confused on a viable endgame build.

Should I go 18/2 barb fighter or full fighter? Then, which feats would you suggest?

The enhancements I can play with as they become more clear.

Thanks

[Thrudh]

I was following this thread close, as I am going to TR into a TWF HO today - past life Clr.

After the discussion here, I am afraid I am even more confused on a viable endgame build.

Should I go 18/2 barb fighter or full fighter? Then, which feats would you suggest?

The enhancements I can play with as they become more clear.

Thanks,
Shane

Past life cleric is pretty worthless for a melee build... Why not just roll up a new character? Do you actually have raid gear from the cleric that will be useful for the new melee build?

20 barbarian
18/2 barbarian/fighter
20 fighter

They are all good... All solid...

Feat choices, just look at the posts above...

20 fighter gets tons of feats... no worries there
The main draw for 18/2 barbarian/fighter is the 2 extra feats...

But you have to give something up to gain something else... Multi-classing in this game is all about weighing what you give up to what you gain.

[PCNONSENSE]

Past life cleric is pretty worthless for a melee build... Why not just roll up a new character? Do you actually have raid gear from the cleric that will be useful for the new melee build?

20 barbarian
18/2 barbarian/fighter
20 fighter

They are all good... All solid...

Feat choices, just look at the posts above...

20 fighter gets tons of feats... no worries there
The main draw for 18/2 barbarian/fighter is the 2 extra feats...

But you have to give something up to gain something else... Multi-classing in this game is all about weighing what you give up to what you gain.

Thanks for the reply - No I dont have many useful items other than tomes and plat.

The reason to TR him is the two stat points and the fact my TR FvS is the only healer I have any fun running with anymore. I either use the clr or delete him...Who knows, maybe a completionist someday

I have been searching the forums and think I will go with 20 fighter TWF...

Thanks again!!

[Hadrian]

I have been searching the forums and think I will go with 20 fighter TWF...

Thanks again!!

Real men go THF.

[PCNONSENSE]

Real men go THF.

That may be...In my case it was a real machine that already TR'd into a two hander

I am looking for a change of pace!!

[Carpone]

Have you worked out the ap on a half orc thf melee yet? Doesnt seem you have.

Half-Orc 18 barbarian/2 fighter:

Cleave
IC: Slash
PA
THF
ITHF
GTHF
Past Life: Berserker's Fury
Stunning Blow
Toughness

Basic Frenzied Berserker Enhancements (34):
Barb Power Attack III (6)
Barb Power Rage IV (10)
Barb Damage Boost IV (10)
Frenzied Berserker III (8)

Half-Orc Damage Enhancements (29):
Orcish Strength II (2) -- only take level I, since II puts me at an odd STR number w/o Litany
Orcish Melee Damage II (6)
Orcish Power Attack III (6)
Orcish Power Rage II (3)
Orcish Greater Weapon Aptitude III (6)
Orcish Brute Fighting III (6) - required for Orcish Power Rage II

Other Enhancements (16):
Barb Sprint Boost I (1)
Barb Hardy Rage II (3)
Racial Toughness I (1)
Racial Toughness II (2)
Barb Toughness III (6)
Fighter Haste Boost I (1)
Fighter Strength I (2)
Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I (1)
== 80 AP

When Litany attained, do this:
-Barb Toughness III (3)
-Barb Toughness II (2)
-Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I (1)
+Orcish Strength II (4)
+Barb Constitution I (2)

Net HP change: 0
Net +Hit change: +2 (+1 STR, +1 Litany)
Net +Dmg change: +2 (+1 STR, +1 Litany)
Net Stunning Blow DC change: 0

--------------------

Half-Orc 20 Barbarian:

Cleave
IC: Slash
PA
THF
ITHF
GTHF
Toughness

Basic Frenzied Berserker Enhancements (34):
Barb Power Attack III (6)
Barb Power Rage IV (10)
Barb Damage Boost IV (10)
Frenzied Berserker III (8)

Half-Orc Damage Enhancements (27):
Orcish Strength I (2)
Orcish Strength II (4)
Orcish Melee Damage II (6)
Orcish Power Attack III (6)
Orcish Power Rage II (3)
Orcish Brute Fighting III (6) - required for Orcish Power Rage II

Other Enhancements (19):
Barb Sprint Boost I (1)
Barb Hardy Rage II (3)
Racial Toughness I (1)
Racial Toughness II (2)
Barb Toughness I (1)
Barb Toughness II (2)
Barb Toughness III (3)
Barb Con I (2)
Barb Con II (4)
== 80 AP

Not taken:
Orcish Greater Weapon Aptitude III (6)

[Quikster]

On the first build you would max extra action boosts.

On the second you dont have capstone.

Youre giving up any extend rage to take toughness, which was my point. Its not just a matter of throwing the toughness enhancements in there, something has to be given up.

[Carpone]

On the first build you would max extra action boosts.

For DPS, yeah, boosts are a better path (same cost either way). I tank in ToD, melee in my guild are top notch, and I'm lazy about farming Incite runes, so I went with the lazy Incite button. I'll probably go with boosts once I TR into a Horc from WF and make Dragontouched Vestments.

On the second you dont have capstone.

/facepalm That's an oversight! Oops. >.<

Youre giving up any extend rage to take toughness, which was my point. Its not just a matter of throwing the toughness enhancements in there, something has to be given up.

I've never understood the big deal with extending rage. You won't ever use them all anyway, even at 3min per.

[Hadrian]

If you're not going to take the extra action boosts, don't take the fighter splash. Drop some toughness ranks if you need to keep brute fighting.

Is 20 HP really going to make a significant difference that it's worth giving up more boosts? Think about how many times as a barb you find a way to get below 50 HP without things being so out of control that there's no chance you're going to survive either way.

[Quikster]

For DPS, yeah, boosts are a better path (same cost either way). I tank in ToD, melee in my guild are top notch, and I'm lazy about farming Incite runes, so I went with the lazy Incite button. I'll probably go with boosts once I TR into a Horc from WF and make Dragontouched Vestments.


/facepalm That's an oversight! Oops. >.<


I've never understood the big deal with extending rage. You won't ever use them all anyway, even at 3min per.

Guess that depends on the person. I use all mine almost all the time, same with boosts/surges.

Haste boosts are definitely a must if going with the fighter splash.3

I rarely take toughness III or IV on any build.

[ddobard1]

I will restrict myself to the options provided by the OP, so I don't talk about Toughness and TWF.

The differences between 20 Barbarian and 18 Barbarian/2 Fighter are the following:

20 Barbarian: Mighty Rage(+2 Str, +2 Con, +1 Will, no AC penalty.);
Capstone(+2 Strength, TH weapons +10% and 5% special weapon effects on glancing blows.);
+1 DR; +1 use of Rage; +1 use of Improved Uncanny Dodge.

18 Barbarian/2 Fighter: 2 Feats (Stunning Blow, Past Life: Soldier of the Faith.(+3 to Hit and Damage temporarily about 2 minutes for 3 times.));+1 Str enhancements;
Fighter Haste Boost I enhancement (Increase Attack Speed increase by 15%.);
Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I enhancement +1 DC to stunning blow.

Analyzing more carefully the crucial point revolves around Stunning Blow.

The pure Barbarian is better DPS, and the Splash Barbarian use the tactics Stunning Blow.
What do you prefer more DPS or Stunning Blow? Your choice.

[glowbug]

The pure Barbarian is better DPS, and the Splash Barbarian use the tactics Stunning Blow.
What do you prefer more DPS or Stunning Blow? Your choice.

I'm actually not sure about this as a blanket statement, the pure barb will do more dps over a single fight that lasts infinite time, but the splash has more dps while haste boosted no?

[ddobard1]

Yes. But we all know those Boosts go down very quickly.
The crucial point here is really Stunning Blow.