AA Ranger/Rogue/? build

[squidicus]

Right now I'm building an AA ranger with the following capabilities in mind;

-Arcane Archery (obviously ranged) but I still want respectable melee damage.
-Above average trapping skills (adding at least two rogue for umd/dd/open)
Where I agonize are the options I have before me.
1. Take monk for wisdom bonus to AC, works with two weapon fighting idea, possibly go to six for assassin pre.
2. Take six fighter for kensai with bow (or melee weapon for better cqb) and stick with two rogue for trapping.
3. Take rogue to six for assassin, take two monk, and rest ranger for superior trapping, extra dps, umd, etc...
4. Stick with 2 rogue and take 18 ranger.

Not really interested in taking Barbarian because my con is meager, but if it's worth a look I'm open to suggestions. Constructive feedback is most welcome.

[Loromir]

Go with 18 ranger, and one lvl Rogue. Lvl two doesn't do much for you. Make the other level Monk or Fighter. Fighter would only help in early rounds with exta feat and heavy armor Proficiency. Monk may be the way to go for the other level.

[squidicus]

Go with 18 ranger, and one lvl Rogue. Lvl two doesn't do much for you. Make the other level Monk or Fighter. Fighter would only help in early rounds with exta feat and heavy armor Proficiency. Monk may be the way to go for the other level.

Heavy armor would be negligible for me because my dex would be higher than heavy armor, so I was leaning towards fighter specifically for extra feat/kensai advantages. Monk was another choice but I wanted to take more levels if anything for added melee advantages. Would I be doing more damage melee wise if I just took one monk and five extra levels of ranger?

edit- I should clarify that the ranger/monk melee advantages also factor in any significant loss of ranged ability, which I don't really think they do.

[grodon9999]

My friend is TRing her 28-point rogue into a Ranger 12/Rogue 7/Monk 1. This is likely the eventual final life for my elf after I get some PLs done on her.

My friend only has +2 tomes and doesn't have the AA set yet but will eventually, that's where the +3 EXC DEX comes from.

Now here's the kicker . . . . I Plugged the numbers in AO's DPS calculator. You will do more MELEE damage than an 18/1/1 ranger with equal stats and gear. Haste boost III and 30ish points of sneak attack a swing make up for the lower FE damage. At 40 STR (hittable with Gear) my Elf 18/1/1 will do 392 DPS with her Mineral II rapiers under the best possible circumstances (299 against BFDs). This 12/7/1 WITH THE SAME GEAR will do 408. That's melee, your manyshot at cap (and a lightning II bow) will break 10,000 points of damage. Good luck NOT getting aggro!

Downside: Glass-cannon. I'm guessing 360ish HP at cap with GFL and Minos. You're SO gonna need some major Green Steel lovin to not go splat in some of the harder stuff. Your AC will be very good though so your non-epic survivability will be pretty high. It'll be a very fun toon to level up and once geared viable at end-game.

On my similarly gear Elf I put +2 EXC CON on here off-hand Mineral II Rapier.

Didn't do skills, but you'll have tons of points so you should be able to max all rogue stuff including UMD and Diplomacy.


Ranger 12/Rogue 7/Monk 1 (34 Points Elf)
initial level Enh Tome Item Ram's Exceptional
S 16 4 2 6 2 S 30
D 17 1 5 2 6 3 D 34
C 12 2 6 C 20
I 12 2 I 14
W 14 2 6 W 22
C 8 2 C 10


Feats:
1 Point Blank Shot
3 WF: Ranged
6 Mental Toughness
7 Toughness (Monk feat, take it whenever you want with your Monk level)
9 IC: Ranged
12 IC: Piercing (Maybe flip-flop 9 and 12)
15 Power Attack
18 Combat Expertise (Maybe, AC Potential is great so I'd say yes)

Enhancements: You can fit ALL the AA and a lot of really good rogue stuff in here.

Rogue Haste Boost I, 20,
Rogue Haste Boost II, 20,
Rogue Haste Boost III, 20,
Ranger Sprint Boost I, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows, 20,
Elven Dexterity I, 20,
Elven Dexterity II, 20,
Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I, 20,
Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II, 20,
Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I, 20,
Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II, 20,
Elven Ranged Attack I, 20,
Elven Ranged Attack II, 20,
Elven Ranged Damage I, 20,
Elven Ranged Damage II, 20,
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I, 20,
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II, 20,
Racial Toughness I, 20,
Racial Toughness II, 20,
Ranger Favored Defense I, 20,
Ranger Favored Defense II, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer I, 20,
Rogue Faster Sneaking I, 20,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training I, 20,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training II, 20,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training III, 20,
Ranger Devotion I, 20,
Ranger Dexterity I, 20,
Ranger Dexterity II, 20,
Ranger Dexterity III, 20,

[Loromir]

Go with 18 ranger, and one lvl Rogue. Lvl two doesn't do much for you. Make the other level Monk or Fighter. Fighter would only help in early rounds with exta feat and heavy armor Proficiency. Monk may be the way to go for the other level.

Overall, I think you just lose alot by not taking the full 18 levels of Ranger. Since one lvl of Fighter won't mean much to you, other than the extra feat, 1 lvl of Monk would be a good choice.

[squidicus]

My friend is TRing her 28-point rogue into a Ranger 12/Rogue 7/Monk 1. This is likely the eventual final life for my elf after I get some PLs done on her.

My friend only has +2 tomes and doesn't have the AA set yet but will eventually, that's where the +3 EXC DEX comes from.

Now here's the kicker . . . . I Plugged the numbers in AO's DPS calculator. You will do more MELEE damage than an 18/1/1 ranger with equal stats and gear. Haste boost III and 30ish points of sneak attack a swing make up for the lower FE damage. At 40 STR (hittable with Gear) my Elf 18/1/1 will do 392 DPS with her Mineral II rapiers under the best possible circumstances (299 against BFDs). This 12/7/1 WITH THE SAME GEAR will do 408. That's melee, your manyshot at cap (and a lightning II bow) will break 10,000 points of damage. Good luck NOT getting aggro!

Downside: Glass-cannon. I'm guessing 360ish HP at cap with GFL and Minos. You're SO gonna need some major Green Steel lovin to not go splat in some of the harder stuff. Your AC will be very good though so your non-epic survivability will be pretty high. It'll be a very fun toon to level up and once geared viable at end-game.

On my similarly gear Elf I put +2 EXC CON on here off-hand Mineral II Rapier.

Didn't do skills, but you'll have tons of points so you should be able to max all rogue stuff including UMD and Diplomacy.


Ranger 12/Rogue 7/Monk 1 (34 Points Elf)
initial level Enh Tome Item Ram's Exceptional
S 16 4 2 6 2 S 30
D 17 1 5 2 6 3 D 34
C 12 2 6 C 20
I 12 2 I 14
W 14 2 6 W 22
C 8 2 C 10


Feats:
1 Point Blank Shot
3 WF: Ranged
6 Mental Toughness
7 Toughness (Monk feat, take it whenever you want with your Monk level)
9 IC: Ranged
12 IC: Piercing (Maybe flip-flop 9 and 12)
15 Power Attack
18 Combat Expertise (Maybe, AC Potential is great so I'd say yes)

Enhancements: You can fit ALL the AA and a lot of really good rogue stuff in here.

Rogue Haste Boost I, 20,
Rogue Haste Boost II, 20,
Rogue Haste Boost III, 20,
Ranger Sprint Boost I, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows, 20,
Elven Dexterity I, 20,
Elven Dexterity II, 20,
Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I, 20,
Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II, 20,
Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I, 20,
Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II, 20,
Elven Ranged Attack I, 20,
Elven Ranged Attack II, 20,
Elven Ranged Damage I, 20,
Elven Ranged Damage II, 20,
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I, 20,
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II, 20,
Racial Toughness I, 20,
Racial Toughness II, 20,
Ranger Favored Defense I, 20,
Ranger Favored Defense II, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows, 20,
Elven Arcane Archer I, 20,
Rogue Faster Sneaking I, 20,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training I, 20,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training II, 20,
Rogue Sneak Attack Training III, 20,
Ranger Devotion I, 20,
Ranger Dexterity I, 20,
Ranger Dexterity II, 20,
Ranger Dexterity III, 20,

That's a really impressive build, I like the dps numbers, one thing I was curious about, what does the extra level of rogue give you over monk? With an extra of Monk I could get a second feat for weapon finess (sp?) but miss out on the extra skill points.

edit - Also extra Monk wis bonus.

[TFPAQ]

gets you the extra sneak attack (1d6)

[grodon9999]

That's a really impressive build, I like the dps numbers, one thing I was curious about, what does the extra level of rogue give you over monk? With an extra of Monk I could get a second feat for weapon finess (sp?) but miss out on the extra skill points.

edit - Also extra Monk wis bonus.

You get more sneak attack damage, she'll be doing an average of 32 points per swing sneak attack with Tharnes.

You could go 12/6/2 for the extra point of AC and another toughness feat if your want to fight off some of the squishiness. Offense versus defense is trade-off, the more defensive you get the more DPS you lose. This is NOT a tanking build, it's a flanking build designed to fight without aggro so the better offense makes more sense. In this toons first life, he started with 8 STR and CON on PURPOSE to see if he could have fun and make a viable toon with these handicaps (he's a but nuts). Though not optimal the toon gets the job done, I've taken him through no-healer Amrath quests and some of the easier epics. He's good with using Diplomacy to save his ass!

Though if you really wanted to you can take 5 rogue and 3 monk and do the "light-monk thing" in ToD. The flexibility in this comes from the fact that 12 ranger levels give all the TWFing and Archery feats (as well as evasion) so you have some freedom with the other 8 levels.

Weapon finesse is NOT needed as her STR will be more than high enough to hit just fine. Keep in mind, this is bare-bones build for a friend who hasn't done much gear grindage yet. Once geared the sustainable STR should be about 40.

[squidicus]

You get more sneak attack damage, she'll be doing an average of 32 points per swing sneak attack with Tharnes.

You could go 12/6/2 for the extra point of AC and another toughness feat if your want to fight off some of the squishiness. Weapon finesse is NOT needed as her STR will be more than high enough to hit just fine. Keep in mind, this is bare-bones build for a friend who hasn't done much gear grindage yet. Once geared the sustainable STR should be about 40.

I was thinking weapon finesse because I only have 32 pt so I took two from Strength. I can get a respectable strength right off the bat but I wanted the highest attack bonus. I'd probably stick with the extra dps though. Cheers.

[grodon9999]

I was thinking weapon finesse because I only have 32 pt so I took two from Strength. I can get a respectable strength right off the bat but I wanted the highest attack bonus. I'd probably stick with the extra dps though. Cheers.

For a 32-point build

S 15
D 17
C 12
I 12
W 14
C 8


All level ups in STR, and ENH in DEX. +2 Tomes (you'll get 'em eventually all buy in DDO store) and +6 common stat items will get you the below at cap:

S 30 (With Ram's)
D 30
C 20
I 14
W 22
C 10

This is fine. I strongly recommend the 30/30 STR/DEX split on Elf Rangers. these are decent "starter" stats until you get better tomes, green steel, and ToD/Epic gear.

[NaturalHazard]

For a 32-point build

S 15
D 17
C 12
I 12
W 14
C 8


All level ups in STR, and ENH in DEX. +2 Tomes (you'll get 'em eventually all buy in DDO store) and +6 common stat items will get you the below at cap:

S 30 (With Ram's)
D 30
C 20
I 14
W 22
C 10

This is fine. I strongly recommend the 30/30 STR/DEX split on Elf Rangers. these are decent "starter" stats until you get better tomes, green steel, and ToD/Epic gear.

Um just of course of all the +2 tomes the most important to get early would be the +2 int tome? cause of all of them thats the one you want to be using as soon as you hit level 7 to make the most of the extra 1 skill point per level cause skill points are not retroactive? I know its noob to mention this but ive heard heaps of people in game complaining about the int bonus to skill points not being retroactive, poor people had to find out the hard way.

[squidicus]

Heh, yeah, will remember for the extra skill point. I'll have more than enough sp to juice just about anything end game with proper gear so I'm really happy.

Actually this whole build has exceeded my expectations. I have a lot of the gear right now (rogue/ranger stuff) to make this toon effective, so thanks to everyone who has really gone out of their way to help me out. I'll post more in the forums after I get her to a respectable level and get AA on her (right now only 5). Cheers.