Shocking Behaviour Turbine

[TanthNefzen]

So, in-game bugs (ie: developer's responsibility) have to be rectified by players spending turbine points? Just had a chat with my brother, who basically had a bugged character (wasnt giving him one of the feats he should have) and after contacting a GM, was informed he needed to BUY a reincarnation, to fix a BUG? If he'd chosen a feat wrong or whatever, this would be acceptable, but because the game doesnt work as it should, he'll be expected to pay around £9-£10? If this IS actually how turbine operate, i'll be cancelling my sub in pretty short order. as will the bunch of us that play together. I doubt any of us are willing to invest time and money into a game that will then charge you for their mistakes.

[SiliconShadow]

Either he didn't make the bug transparent enough or it wasn't a bug and an error and the GM saw that.

Did he go through to 3rd line support?

[blitzschlag]

what class and feat are we talking about?

what about a reroll?

[Tom318]

So, in-game bugs (ie: developer's responsibility) have to be rectified by players spending turbine points? Just had a chat with my brother, who basically had a bugged character (wasnt giving him one of the feats he should have) and after contacting a GM, was informed he needed to BUY a reincarnation, to fix a BUG? If he'd chosen a feat wrong or whatever, this would be acceptable, but because the game doesnt work as it should, he'll be expected to pay around £9-£10? If this IS actually how turbine operate, i'll be cancelling my sub in pretty short order. as will the bunch of us that play together. I doubt any of us are willing to invest time and money into a game that will then charge you for their mistakes.

Need more details, what feat are we talking about?

[sirdanile]

What feat are we talking about here and how is it bugged?

[Therigar]

who basically had a bugged character (wasnt giving him one of the feats he should have)

I see the problem. It was BASICALLY bugged -- that is English for IT WASN"T BUGGED. And it WASNT GIVING HIM ONE OF THE FEATS HE SHOULD HAVE -- that is English for HE FAILED TO TAKE THE RIGHT PREREQS.

Don't blame Turbine for what was the player's fault.

[blitzschlag]

I see the problem. It was BASICALLY bugged -- that is English for IT WASN"T BUGGED. And it WASNT GIVING HIM ONE OF THE FEATS HE SHOULD HAVE -- that is English for HE FAILED TO TAKE THE RIGHT PREREQS.

Don't blame Turbine for what was the player's fault.

while i assume the same, its no good etiquette to yell at people while there is no proof...

[Therigar]

while i assume the same, its no good etiquette to yell at people while there is no proof...

You're right. I'm glad I didn't use curse words along with the yelling. Because players who don't know what they are doing ARE TOO FREAKING SOFT and need our understanding and support. I'm sure that it was all someone else's fault. Let's blame Turbine. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

[Buggss]

You're right. I'm glad I didn't use curse words along with the yelling. Because players who don't know what they are doing ARE TOO FREAKING SOFT and need our understanding and support. I'm sure that it was all someone else's fault. Let's blame Turbine. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Actually it was exactly what I thought when I read your condescending post.

Feel free to be condescending when we have the details but until then the assumption that it's the players fault is inappropriate.

[TanthNefzen]

I see the problem. It was BASICALLY bugged -- that is English for IT WASN"T BUGGED. And it WASNT GIVING HIM ONE OF THE FEATS HE SHOULD HAVE -- that is English for HE FAILED TO TAKE THE RIGHT PREREQS.

Don't blame Turbine for what was the player's fault.

No, he was a level 8 cleric, took a fighter level, and as a dwarf, was not proficient in Dwarven Axes. As we all know, dwarven axes are classed as martial weapons for dwarves so after taking a fighter level, he should have been proficient in them. There ARE no prereqs to use Dwarven Axes as a dwarven fighter, therefore this is a bug. Yes, he took it further, and was given the same response.

[Fomori]

No, he was a level 8 cleric, took a fighter level, and as a dwarf, was not proficient in Dwarven Axes. As we all know, dwarven axes are classed as martial weapons for dwarves so after taking a fighter level, he should have been proficient in them. There ARE no prereqs to use Dwarven Axes as a dwarven fighter, therefore this is a bug. Yes, he took it further, and was given the same response.

The GM's cannot grant feats to your character. Giving them that power could (and would) lead to some serious abuse.

Did you contact customer support outside of game to see if they can pass this along to someone with the authority to correct this?

[Therigar]

No, he was a level 8 cleric, took a fighter level, and as a dwarf, was not proficient in Dwarven Axes. As we all know, dwarven axes are classed as martial weapons for dwarves so after taking a fighter level, he should have been proficient in them. There ARE no prereqs to use Dwarven Axes as a dwarven fighter, therefore this is a bug. Yes, he took it further, and was given the same response.

I find this incredibly difficult to believe. In all my time here I've never encountered anything of this nature. There is more to this story than you are presenting.

We use to say, "Screenshot or it didn't happen." I sort of feel the same way. You begin by saying it is sort of a bug and now that you've been called out on it you say it is a bug. You start without offering any description of what is wrong and now you have an example that is extraordinarily unique.

Has anyone with a forum join date earlier than '08 ever encountered anything like this? Are there any threads touching on this type of an issue?

I really have a difficult time believing this is true.

[t0r012]

I'm sorry but I have to say I have a rather strict rule about not believing any rant that includes "my brother/friend/uncle/dog/pet rock"

[zorander6]

I'm sorry but I have to say I have a rather strict rule about not believing any rant that includes "my brother/friend/uncle/dog/pet rock"

What if it happened to my miniature giant space hamster?

[Zilta]

I'm sorry but I have to say I have a rather strict rule about not believing any rant that includes "my brother/friend/uncle/dog/pet rock"

Respect the pet rock or be smited with its rockyness!

[Missing_Minds]

I find this incredibly difficult to believe. In all my time here I've never encountered anything of this nature. There is more to this story than you are presenting.

Actually, the OP probably isn't making this one up.

There is an issue with multi classing and dwarves taking fighter (so has been reported) such that the martial prof with dwarven axes is NOT granted.

I don't know if it was determined when, but the GM was only partly right. A TR would fix it, but as well would a lesser. (even a re roll)

Take fighter for the first level, then cleric and you'll be fine. If you follow in the same leveling path, I believe you will be bugged once again.


However, the GM has no tools to grant feats so there wasn't much they could do to fix this issue. I don't want the GMs mucking with player character databases.

Edit: and looks like you've seen it for yourself now as well. Only it doesn't take respecing out a feat to cause it to happen.

[MeToo]

No, he was a level 8 cleric, took a fighter level, and as a dwarf, was not proficient in Dwarven Axes.

What's the cleric's base STR? There's a reference somewhere to the Dwarven Axe feat requiring 13 base STR (build + level ups + tomes only) but I don't know whether that applies here.

If that's not the issue, it looks like the same thing that happened four months ago. That was a level 6 dwarf rogue taking fighter at level 7. Turbine didn't help them either.

Have them get a bug report from in-game. Good luck.

[kinar]

What's the cleric's base STR? There's a reference somewhere to the Dwarven Axe feat requiring 13 base STR (build + level ups + tomes only) but I don't know whether that applies here.

If that's not the issue, it looks like the same thing that happened four months ago. That was a level 6 dwarf rogue taking fighter at level 7. Turbine didn't help them either.

Have them get a bug report from in-game. Good luck.

Thats some pretty damning evidence even by DDO standards in that thread right there...

I find this incredibly difficult to believe. In all my time here I've never encountered anything of this nature. There is more to this story than you are presenting.

We use to say, "Screenshot or it didn't happen." I sort of feel the same way. You begin by saying it is sort of a bug and now that you've been called out on it you say it is a bug. You start without offering any description of what is wrong and now you have an example that is extraordinarily unique.

Has anyone with a forum join date earlier than '08 ever encountered anything like this? Are there any threads touching on this type of an issue?

I really have a difficult time believing this is true.

methinks someone owes someone else an apology...or does it not count since MeeToo's forum date is 2009?

[donfilibuster]

There should be a sticky post somewhere regarding GMs and what can they help and what can directly solve and what needs be taken to a full support ticket or bug report.
Maybe there is and no one is reading it, i remember the small text on the in-game support saying that for bug reports you gotta use the provided link.

Now, after reading and hearing a few comments about GM it is fairly obvious they can't alter your toon directly.
As far as i have heard from players that got stuck or glitch they can reset quests when the glitch is apparent.
Like keys missing or npcs that don't advance the quest but the boss or goal is visibly finished, both which happened on recent packs.

But glitched feats, missing quest items or lost inventory, seems GMs can't help with that and is fairly reasonable.
For example, a guildie lost his necro item, but both the emerald and flame npcs refuse to give a new one.
Even if you haven't junked it and still have it the npc gives you a replacement.

The GMs seems to politely point you to the bug report or support tickets, but it is still a canned response so may be if the wording of it changes in some way along pointing you to the instructions for the ticket reports.
That'd be beside the sticky post so you know what to expect.

p.s. (and not suggest to buy a heart of wood at least until the case is resolved)

[Therigar]

I apologize.

Edit:

Now that I've apologized I have duplicated the "bug."

I created a dwarf cleric, leveled to L4 using veteran status. At L3 I took the feat Exotic Weapon: Dwarven Axe. You see where this is going don't you.

I took L4 as a fighter, left the boat, went to Lockania, went to Fred. I knew you saw this coming.

I used the respec to get rid of the unneeded Exotic Weapon: Dwarven Axe and traded for Toughness.

Anyone want to bet on the result?

Now, can we have the full story on the other two incidents?

My money is on this scenario. They took the Dwarven Axe feat in their initial class, leveled to fighter, then respec'd the feat -- causing it to disappear.

That isn't a "bug." It is not understanding the respec tool and some of the consequences.

I'll know more when I try it the other way, by doing the respec first and then taking the level. But that means playing a gimp cleric to L5 to test my theory.

Second Edit:

So, I started another cleric, veteran, L4 off the boat. Took the feat Exotic Weapon: Dwarven Axe. Played him till he had the XP for L5. Went to Fred. Did the respec. Took the fighter level. Bingo, able to use Dwarven Axe!

It appears certain that this is a consequence of using Fred AFTER taking the fighter level and the player using respec to exchange the feat Exotic Weapon: Dwarven Axe for something different. It is the same "bug" that affects rangers Two Weapon Fighting when they have done the same thing (taken the feat, then multiclassed to ranger and used a respec after the fact). This is Turbine's fault only in the sense that it is poor coding on the respec, probably related to how the data is recorded for the feat (instead of being held separately for each cause -- selected or innate -- it stores the data in the same place). So once it is changed it is changed universally. IIRC it may even be a Known Issue.

My apology stands. OP's brother did in fact have a L8 cleric that took a level of fighter. And, OP's brother in fact did miss out on the Dwarven Axe feat. However, I am confident that the reason is as I've described it. Same for the other post referenced by MeToo. Meaning it was a player issue caused by not understanding how respec works.