link beaters plz

[Bloodfaith]

1. A plain transmuter could bypass all DR
2. What new spells u use on Harry?
3. My L16 bard could already solo heal a shroud
4. I do not know who you play with but most fighters, pally and barbs have more than 400. Rogues were better built as are rangers
5. Having run shroud more than 1k times, I had plenty of thrill, I dun need more
6. A lot more people are not listening
7. Its not about being unable to bring underleveled or undergeared players but when the same players do not try to improve and keep on leeching, to quote an example, unemployment insurance
8. Some people consider me elitist and yet I have a bank of harry beaters to loan to pugs, go figure

Remember my original statements commented about players at the time of release. Not the current typical builds of today.

1. If the group says link Harry Beaters, you seriously think they would take someone with just plain metaline?
2. Meteor Swarm, Mass Reconstruct and Mass Heal in combination with newer Potency and focus items and Higher Spell point pools. Those alone make a big difference.
3. Solo Healing shroud was always possible setting up spells wands and scrolls to chain cast because of different cooldown timers.
4. Remember I knew plenty of players who had low hp but high dps builds at the time of content release. Being unable to feat swap or reincarnate they kinda got stuck with what worked pre-vale. Most often only barbs and some fighters had their hp over 400.
5. Thats a personal choice to not want the thrill. If you don't enjoy the thrill, don't pug a raid I guess. you could always use your friends lists and guild to build raids. This allows you to know who can do what.
6. People listening has nothing to do with them having or not having a harry beater. I can't tell you how many people I meet who are geared but still don't listen. Even worse decide they don't like the leaders directions. Go off on their own to die. Demanding a raise dead while the party is working together. These moments I am glad I can drop some ones stone anywhere in the dungeon. Far Far away from the shrines.
7. First off ROFL. There are always people who can ruin any group. Like Ac*r or Ac*rrr how ever he is spelling it today.
8. Your not in the true elitist catagory then. People in that catagory would never help another player who may be lacking in gear or experience. Obviously your a better player than most to offer your time and help. You are the kind of person helping the community become what I love about DDO.

Final comment.
Todays players and gear, should easily be able to short man a shroud. Why not fill those spots with people in need of help to improve themselves?

[blitzschlag]

Final comment.
Todays players and gear, should easily be able to short man a shroud. Why not fill those spots with people in need of help to improve themselves?

why not let ppl shortman it or play it how they like? you have an issue with leaders that don't want pikers/pileons/noob in their runs but fail to see that its also their freedom to do what they are doing.

we learned all that stuff the hard way too somewhen back in time. figure out what breaks his dr. figure out that portal keepers are better killed fast. figured which boss runs how fast in part 2 when killed. figured what works best to destory the crystal. figured out that you don't have unlimited time in pt. 3. figure out that its not too good to break the crystals above the puzzles. figure out whats needed to survive in pt4.


if i have to choose between a 20 minute run and a 60 minute run i will gladly choose the 20 minute run for my X-hundredths completion.

[Bloodfaith]

Read the whole thread before you comment please.

why not let ppl shortman it or play it how they like? you have an issue with leaders that don't want pikers/pileons/noob in their runs but fail to see that its also their freedom to do what they are doing.

we learned all that stuff the hard way too somewhen back in time. figure out what breaks his dr. figure out that portal keepers are better killed fast. figured which boss runs how fast in part 2 when killed. figured what works best to destory the crystal. figured out that you don't have unlimited time in pt. 3. figure out that its not too good to break the crystals above the puzzles. figure out whats needed to survive in pt4.


if i have to choose between a 20 minute run and a 60 minute run i will gladly choose the 20 minute run for my X-hundredths completion.

[Aranticus]

Remember my original statements commented about players at the time of release. Not the current typical builds of today.

1. If the group says link Harry Beaters, you seriously think they would take someone with just plain metaline?

the point is its much easier to get a boss beater back then

2. Meteor Swarm, Mass Reconstruct and Mass Heal in combination with newer Potency and focus items and Higher Spell point pools. Those alone make a big difference.

lose half the damage with meteor? mass heal is an arcane spell?

3. Solo Healing shroud was always possible setting up spells wands and scrolls to chain cast because of different cooldown timers.

my bard did that without scrolls use back then. its got nothing to do with spell efficiency but rather how players built their toons.

4. Remember I knew plenty of players who had low hp but high dps builds at the time of content release. Being unable to feat swap or reincarnate they kinda got stuck with what worked pre-vale. Most often only barbs and some fighters had their hp over 400.

that was the time where people who played had a clue about how things work. barbs and fighters with more than 400 hp are the equivalent of our 600hp toons these days. you must also remember there was no mass heal back then. low hp toons survive because you had to heal often. low hp toons are not very likely to survive the casting time of mass heal

5. Thats a personal choice to not want the thrill. If you don't enjoy the thrill, don't pug a raid I guess. you could always use your friends lists and guild to build raids. This allows you to know who can do what.

thats the problem. when this game wasnt ftp, you could pick any random pug and be sure that there isnt going to be a problem. these days, things have changed so much that many of the experience players are doing everything in their tight social channel. this is a lose lose situation

6. People listening has nothing to do with them having or not having a harry beater. I can't tell you how many people I meet who are geared but still don't listen. Even worse decide they don't like the leaders directions. Go off on their own to die. Demanding a raise dead while the party is working together. These moments I am glad I can drop some ones stone anywhere in the dungeon. Far Far away from the shrines.

it does matter. people were more receptive of advice. in the past a greater % of players will go look for a transmuter if you tell them that it is going to help the party more (of course there are exceptions). these days i see a lot of "dun tell me how to play", "all i care is having fun", etc type of arguments

7. First off ROFL. There are always people who can ruin any group. Like Ac*r or Ac*rrr how ever he is spelling it today.
8. Your not in the true elitist catagory then. People in that catagory would never help another player who may be lacking in gear or experience. Obviously your a better player than most to offer your time and help. You are the kind of person helping the community become what I love about DDO.

a lot of players considered to be elitist by many others taught me how to raid and such. they could be harsh but nonetheless its still helping

Final comment.
Todays players and gear, should easily be able to short man a shroud. Why not fill those spots with people in need of help to improve themselves?

as i have said, people are just tired of carrying others through raids

[insaneuou]

I am a caster i dont have melee shroud weapons .....its no excuse but i do my job very well...Now can u excuse me ?;P

[Aranticus]

I am a caster i dont have melee shroud weapons .....its no excuse but i do my job very well...Now can u excuse me ?;P

i've seen some casters that cant kill a single thing in shroud... no spell pen ftl!

[budalic]

Hi, new player here, just wanted to ask if there are any palemasters here who tested Necro Bolt/Blast and ranged weapons? I use Blast->Bolt->Polar ray combination and at least it does some damage. Harry doesn't seem to have neg energy resistance.

[porq]

Because we all know how difficult shroud is and the necessity of inventory checks to avoid failure, I humbly request you show me 'link beaters' responses. Bonus points if you're a paladin and it isn't a holy sword blank.

on my Wizard: Anarchic Burst Throwing Dart of Greater Evil Outsider Bane
on my Monk: +5 Metalline Heavy Crossbow of Pure Good

This is what I link:


I swear to you, this was the absolute best 24 larges I've spent on a greensteel item yet. The reactions I get for linking this when asked for a boss beater alone is worth it, not to mention it's hilarious to use in general.


Of note, I did get into one of those 'link your bb in a tell to me before invite' shroud groups with this baby. That was a fun day

[wolflordnexus]

This is what I link:


I swear to you, this was the absolute best 24 larges I've spent on a greensteel item yet. The reactions I get for linking this when asked for a boss beater alone is worth it, not to mention it's hilarious to use in general.


Of note, I did get into one of those 'link your bb in a tell to me before invite' shroud groups with this baby. That was a fun day

I would totally let you in with that just because you spent 24 larges on it I totally want a silver metaline shuriken

[tunabomber]

Hehe,I just link em my muckbanes.

[aristarchus1000]

Final comment.
Todays players and gear, should easily be able to short man a shroud. Why not fill those spots with people in need of help to improve themselves?

I actually don't mind doing this, once I know I have 3-4 decent dpsers with decent harry beaters. If you don't start out with some screening, however, it's really frustrating to get to part 4 and realize that nobody is doing any decent damage.

[Hirosue]

I used to avoid shroud pugs that demand link beaters. However over the last couple of weeks I have been pugging shroud on 3 different characters.

To get a completion on 3 characters took 8 runs. That is 5 fails. I was pretty shocked by the appalling lack of team play and basic understanding many pugs have regarding this quest. This situation is not helped by leaders that say nothing and let the party get on with it as best as they can.

Shroud is more than 2 years old now and people really should be capable of doing this raid with their eyes closed.

The main fail points are at

part 2 - pugs incapable of separating mobs and/or killing them in the correct order i.e. ghosts arrive at the crystal before last mob killed, so 2 or more kill attempts required.

part 3 - people incapable of doing puzzle and incapable of letting the group know this, combine with lazy players who don't run water , often 4 or 5 players just standing around at the fountain - walls of death

part 4 - clerics not healing , clerics over healing , i.e. both over casting each other, no dps melee, no hit point melee

part 5 - same as part 4

general annoyances such as AFK players, players insisting on crafting, players dropping at part 4 with no warning, general lazy play i.e. pikeing.

so how to filter out all the pikeing / idiots ?

link beaters is certainly distained by many but I can now understand why some leaders ask for it.

[d4rkstars]

what you say is true, but how having a "beater" is going to make people have more team play, help people solve the puzzel and make the cleric heal in p4 ? how will it remoove afker / pikers / lazy / bad skilled?

i dont really agree with all your points, because they are too simplistic compared to the reality (like cleric not healing, well appart if the cleric is afk he will probably heal, but when melee keep mooving in and out of the battle, and that the cleric happened to cast his mass heal on that guy, all the group get screwed and will blame the cleric who has nothing to do with that - its extremly hard to see who is going in and out, and even if you see it, it is probably too late)

but thats not the issue, the issue is that having the best beater in the game WONT solve any of those lacking - i also avoid group asking for beater, because only bad players think that a beater is the only thing that is needed to beat shroud)

i d take 100 over a guy who has the qualities you are describing, even if he is not wearing 2 minII weapons...

[pMagic]

IMO the people who post "link your DR breakers" fall into 3 categories

1) They are running hard/elite difficulty where bypassing DR is more important
2) They are Shroud vets tired of pileons who cannot beat portals, who take 3 rounds (and even 2) on Harry in part 4, who cannot outdamage the troll's regen, etc. etc.
3) They are newbies who need people with DR to carry them through a normal Shroud run

Two of those reasons are perfectly acceptable in my opinion.

/agreed

Just link your DR breaker and join up. Fall in-line or start your own group.

The discussion about doing better dps with non DR breaker is a valid discussion on the forum but not with /tell to the party leader while he's recruiting.

[pMagic]

I used to avoid shroud pugs that demand link beaters. However over the last couple of weeks I have been pugging shroud on 3 different characters.

To get a completion on 3 characters took 8 runs. That is 5 fails. I was pretty shocked by the appalling lack of team play and basic understanding many pugs have regarding this quest. This situation is not helped by leaders that say nothing and let the party get on with it as best as they can.

Shroud is more than 2 years old now and people really should be capable of doing this raid with their eyes closed.

The main fail points are at

part 2 - pugs incapable of separating mobs and/or killing them in the correct order i.e. ghosts arrive at the crystal before last mob killed, so 2 or more kill attempts required.

part 3 - people incapable of doing puzzle and incapable of letting the group know this, combine with lazy players who don't run water , often 4 or 5 players just standing around at the fountain - walls of death

part 4 - clerics not healing , clerics over healing , i.e. both over casting each other, no dps melee, no hit point melee

part 5 - same as part 4

general annoyances such as AFK players, players insisting on crafting, players dropping at part 4 with no warning, general lazy play i.e. pikeing.

so how to filter out all the pikeing / idiots ?

link beaters is certainly distained by many but I can now understand why some leaders ask for it.

/agreed

Good points here.

Link beaters is exactly that - a filter for team players. If you're going to link a non-DR breaker and then send /tell to argue why its better then a DR breaker then you're more likely to run ahead and aggro the mini-bosses on part 2 or jump on the puzzle while someone else is trying to solve it but you "see" the solution and of course you'll be crafting on each altar.

[d4rkstars]

/agreed

Good points here.

Link beaters is exactly that - a filter for team players. If you're going to link a non-DR breaker and then send /tell to argue why its better then a DR breaker then you're more likely to run ahead and aggro the mini-bosses on part 2 or jump on the puzzle while someone else is trying to solve it but you "see" the solution and of course you'll be crafting on each altar.

lol in what way linking a beater will show you are a team player ... in what way linking a beater will show you will not go afk... in what way showing a beater will proove you are a good healer (in that particular case i would be a little scared of a pure cleric yielding a strong beater, this guy probably like beating more tha nhealing )

i am sorry but this makes no sense, having a beater doesnt proove anything, anyone can link a beater...

[phalaeo]

I have never been in a Shroud on Argo where ppl are asked to link boss beaters. Ever.

We're more likely to ask you to link your HP- can't DPS when you're dead. If I'm pugging out spots on Normal, I could care less if it takes 40 seconds longer to kill Harry...I'd take a 500HP melee without DR breakers over a 350HP melee with, providing his weapon choice isn't downright stupid.

[Krag]

I have never been in a Shroud on Argo where ppl are asked to link boss beaters. Ever.

We're more likely to ask you to link your HP- can't DPS when you're dead. If I'm pugging out spots on Normal, I could care less if it takes 40 seconds longer to kill Harry...I'd take a 500HP melee without DR breakers over a 350HP melee with, providing his weapon choice isn't downright stupid.

In my observation it's rarely one or the other. Toons without beaters usually fail to get enough hp and vice versa.

[pMagic]

lol in what way linking a beater will show you are a team player ... in what way linking a beater will show you will not go afk... in what way showing a beater will proove you are a good healer (in that particular case i would be a little scared of a pure cleric yielding a strong beater, this guy probably like beating more tha nhealing )

i am sorry but this makes no sense, having a beater doesnt proove anything, anyone can link a beater...

If you read the full post you'll answer your own question...

[d4rkstars]

If you read the full post you'll answer your own question...

open a dictionnary on "rhetorical" page and maybe you will understand my questions arent questions....