TR'ing an old toon into a DPS Rogue

[Merlocke]

Well I have had an old almost capped character sitting on the back burner for a long time. I jacked his starting stats and I wasn't sure what to do w/ him, but I'm considering TRing him into a DPS Rog. Ive never rolled a Rog before. Ive played with many many horrible ones and a few really good ones. I think getting 17d6 + 20 sneak attack damage on a Blinded, Held, or 0 Con mob with the heavy pick's x4 Crit will make a great addition to an epic party or raid.

Here's what I've worked out on paper & the planner. Anything I'm missing here or anything that isnt needed let me know and why, thanks.



Weapon Set 1
Main Hand: Deathnip
Off Hand: Rad II Rapier

Weapon Set 2
Main Hand: Earth II Hvy Pick
Off Hand: Earth II Hvy Pick

Weapon Set 3
Main Hand: WOP Rapier (Icy Burst, Force Crit)
Off Hand: WOP Rapier (Icy burst, Force Crit)

Weapon Set 4
Main Hand: Min II Hvy Pick (+5 Holy Silver in meantime)
Off Hand: Min II Hvy Pick (+5 Holy Silver in meantime)


Stats
Str 34 (18 base + 5 levels + 2 tome + 6 item +1 Exc Str + 2 Exc Str)
Dex 24 (14 base +2 tome +6 item +2 enhancement)
Con 30 (18 base + 2 tome + 2 Enhancements + 6 item + 2 Exc Con)
Int 16 (8 base +2 tome +6 item)
Wis 8 (6 base +2 tome)
Cha 16 (8 base +2 tome +6 item)

STR
+2 Madstone
+2 Rage Pot
+2 Yugoloth Pot
40


Hit Points at level 20
322 Rogue levels, 22 Con, 1 Toughness Feat, Racial Toughness IV, 20 Heroic Durability)
10 Argonessen Favor
60 +6 Con Item; Quorforged Docent of Battle
20 Toughness item; Quorforged Docent of Battle
40 Superior False Life; Quorforged Docent of Battle
45 Shroud HP cloak; Earthgrab
20 +2 Exc Con
517 standing

+40(single madstone)
+20(rage pot)
+40(yugo pot)
617 self buffed


To-Hit
20 BAB (Madstone)
15 (40 STR)
5 weapon
2 Shintao
4 GH
1 Haste
4 SA Enhancements
5 Tharnes
4 destruction DT swapped in
4 Epic Spectral Gloves swapped in
-4 twf with no oversize
-10 PA
1 Ftr Past Life
51 (self-buffed w/PA on)


Auto-Crit DPS
+5 GS Earth II Heavy Pick with a 1d8x4 +1 Force ritual (40 Str, full WF PA, seeker +6/+8)
1d6 Acid
3d10 Acid burst (x4)
3d10 Acid Blast (x4); extra 4d6 on a natural 20
17d6 + 20 sneak attack damage
32 (Red Fens+4, Shintao +2, FB +2)
3d10 Flaming burst (x4); Redscale Eternal Fire swapped in
12% doublestrike chance

Feats
1- Toughness
3- TWF Requires Dex+15
6- Heavy Pick
9- ITWF Requires Dex+17 BAB 6
10- Opprotunist (Rog)
12- IC: Pierce Requires BAB+8
13- Opprotunist (Rog)
15- GTWF Requires Dex+17 BAB 11
16- Opprotunist (Rog)
18- Power Attack
19- Opprotunist (Rog)


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Merlocc
Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(20 Rogue)
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 15
Will: 5

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             18                 25                   25
Dexterity            15                 17                   17
Constitution         18                 20                   22
Intelligence          8                 10                   10
Wisdom                6                  8                    8
Charisma              6                  8                    8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               2                 26                   27
Bluff                -2                 -1                    6
Concentration         6                 17.5                 18.5
Diplomacy             2                 22                   23
Disable Device       n/a                23                   24
Haggle               -2                 -1                    0
Heal                 -2                 -1                    0
Hide                  6                  7                   16
Intimidate           -2                 -1                    0
Jump                  4                  7                    8
Listen               -1                  0                    1
Move Silently         6                  7                   16
Open Lock             6                 26                   27
Perform              n/a               n/a                    n/a
Repair               -1                  0                    1
Search               -1                 23                   24
Spot                  0                  2                    3
Swim                  4                  7                    8
Tumble                3                  4                    5
Use Magic Device      2                 22                   23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Composite Plating
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Light Fortification
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Feat: (Automatic) Warforged Resistances


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Pick


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist



Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist



Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist



Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist



Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III

[Fionivar]

Looks like you'll kick arse and take names, but why the concentration? I didn't know that applied to UMD'd scrolls, if so..makes sense.

[Ssmooth]

Nice build. Mine's very similar, but plan to use khopesh's at 20.

Well done.

[Merlocke]

Yeah there is a concentration check for getting heal scrolls off, though Im thinking of taking the points out of there and moving them somewhere else. Thinking I won't be heal-scrolling myself in combat much because I'll likeley have madstone boots on.

One thing im not sure of is the 14 starting dex. +2 tomes are easy to get, but ITWF requirement is 17 dex.
See, I used the enhancement line Rog Dex I to get to 17 dex and unlock the ITWF feat. I dont think thats right though, I think you have to have a base 17. If thats the case Ill have drop the Cha to a 6, as I dont have a +3 dex tome and im not planning on TRing more than once.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Right, enhancements won't qualify you for feats.

[supp3nhuhn]

I don't think past life barbarian is really giving you all that much considering the nice hp you already have for a rogue.
You'd probably benefit more from damage or attack enhancements, the latter because you took the full wf pa chain.
Unless you run this character more or less in a static group i'd also take healers friend, you could further up this with past life pally if you wanted.

You're also correct that you need 17 base dex for the higher tiers, so either +3 tome or a starting 15 dex.

That being said at lower levels you should consider going mechanic because the first tier of assassin isn't all that great and mechanic lets you trade skill boosts for self healing as wf which is nice until you can umd the better scrolls.
You also have rather low int so the skill enhancements from mechanic will help you a lot until you can wear good gear.

[Merlocke]

I was considering khopeshes, as my barb has alot of nice ones lying around. Id just hate to see those bound rapiers go to waste, and Im hoping the radiance + H picks SA will own epic trash, now that they say they are going to be fixing that blindness/held moster bug.

Plus I think it will just be cool to be rocking impr. crit rapiers that can really mess up non-epic trash:
Hand 1 Wounding Rapier of Puncturing
Hand 2 Wounding Rapier of Puncturing
Icy burst (Risia Recipe)
1d4 Force Critical Ritual
Flaming burst (Red scale Eternal Fire)


And if my Radiance Guard proc's or they go into 0 CON/0 STR:
17d6 + 20 SA damage per hit
Vorpal on 20

[Merlocke]

I don't think past life barbarian is really giving you all that much considering the nice hp you already have for a rogue.
You'd probably benefit more from damage or attack enhancements, the latter because you took the full wf pa chain.

Yeah Ill have to -2 that cha to get the 15 dex.

Now that I think about it, the Fighter past life would be a better choice for hitting reliably on epic. From what Ive read on Rogues theire BAB is lower than other classes. Im trying to work in the ability to maybe swap in a DT Destruct Docent and spectral gloves to correct this problem.

Id love to take the +1 damage from past life Mnk, but not sure if the Mnk +1 damage is applied before multipliers, though. Probably not.

[Ssmooth]

Mine has rapiers from past-life as well :\ . I'll be using khopesh's on main bosses and epics mostly.

Picks are deffinately still a good choice and will own stunned/held mobs. If you already have the khopesh's, I would think about trading out for them though

[voodoogroves]

I see a starting dex at 14 and a +2 tome - but you'll need 17 for I/GTWF right?

I just did one of the +5 hearts on a batman-like build into more of a pure assassin and it's a blast. I switch between 3 basic sets of rapiers - dual paralyzers, dual puncturing and dual bodyfeeder/maiming. She's a hoot and once you get the pacing down for who to engage, when and how to manage your assassination in combat it's even more fun. BTW, I'm using assassinate as a "bonus" ... the passive benefits and poisons (+20 to confirm crits) are the real meat, if the assassination lands, bonus. Even with a weak INT, a more DPS-focused rogue can still wail on things the rest of the time and the assassinations still land often enough to be amusing.

The weakness is the same as all rogues - those boss non-crit-able, non-insta-killable like constructs and undead. With enough core DPS, it may take some time but you can whittle them down if you're sturdy enough.

Mine's a drow (first drow I had on this server) and when she caps I'll be converting her to the master race as well.

Mechanic might be a good choice early if you're TRing; on a first life those levels fly by so I wouldn't worry but the slower-leveling pace may make it more easy.

[Merlocke]

I see a starting dex at 14 and a +2 tome - but you'll need 17 for I/GTWF right?

Yeah... looks like Ill have to start with a base 6 Cha, hope that wont cut into my Heal/Recon scrolling.

The weakness is the same as all rogues - those boss non-crit-able, non-insta-killable like constructs and undead. With enough core DPS, it may take some time but you can whittle them down if you're sturdy enough.

Yeah I'm not looking forward to that part.. but the Sneak Attak damage seems like something too much of a blast not to play. Ive got it at 17d6 + 20 sneak attack damage alone. Is that right?
Add in the max Str, and WF PA, and a x4 multiplier... I cant wait to see how the Rad II heavy picks work out.

[Ssmooth]

Yeah... looks like Ill have to start with a base 6 Cha, hope that wont cut into my Heal/Recon scrolling.



Yeah I'm not looking forward to that part.. but the Sneak Attak damage seems like something too much of a blast not to play. Ive got it at 17d6 + 20 sneak attack damage alone. Is that right?
Add in the max Str, and WF PA, and a x4 multiplier... I cant wait to see how the Rad II heavy picks work out.

17d6 is correct. I actually started with 16 str to in order to make leveling easier(stat distribution). I plan to LR at 20 to change it to 18 base str, but UMD was sometime tough ~14 or so for scrolling gh and recon even with a base 8 cha.

I went mechanic until 14 because there's a good healing benefit to mechI. I respec'd to assasin at 14 and never looked back. Just what I did.

[Merlocke]

can still get no-fail healing even with a 6 starting CHA...just have to hope for the 7 fingered gloves on my 20th :O


UMD
23 Ranks
-1 (6 base cha, +2 tome)
+1 (Skill focus Mastery)
+4 (GH)
+3 (+6 CHAitem)
+5 (Chaskill; Radiance Guard)
+5 (7 fingered)
40

The good thing is that those gloves and the Whisper ring are the only real peices of gear I will have to grind for.

Only planning on two pieces of shroud gear, a Rad II+ 5 Chaskill item and a HP+ earthgrab cloak.
Just have to shroud for his Earthgrab picks and guard item, and I can wear the DQ blurry cloak in the meantime.

[Merlocke]

Does anyone with the Assasin set know about how often the neg level effect proc's?
Was thinking an interesting setup would be 2 Enervation Hvy Picks (lol, i know) coupled with the Assasin set and an enervation guard to Neg level Epic mobs...youd and still get x4 on them when theyre held, and SA damage if Radiance guard proc's too.

Not saying I'm gonna do it, just wonder if that would be worth the larges, I doubt it though.

[redraider]

My TR pure 20 Kensai went Dorf Rog (currently 11) - Why Dorf? The name is Snowhite Spawnof so had to be human or Dorf or I likely would have gone WF.

Get a pair of cheap DR breakers (metalline of pure good of similar for bosses - my TR has 2 MIn2 D-axes from previous life) and rock the Radiance II rapiers through EVERYTHING else. Your SA is way better than any thing else even including Lit2's on non-bosses.

Go Str baby with RadII Rapiers and you will leave the kills in nearly every adventure.

Oh, and I recommend 2 levels of Rgr early LR'd out at 12. Self healing, the extra TWF feat, come in real handy in noob land. Is it just me that does this? I did it on my WF Barb (1 lvl of wiz at 3 LR'd out at 18) and my Mobster.

[Merlocke]

Get a pair of cheap DR breakers (metalline of pure good of similar for bosses - my TR has 2 MIn2 D-axes from previous life) and rock the Radiance II rapiers through EVERYTHING else. Your SA is way better than any thing else even including Lit2's on non-bosses.

Go Str baby with RadII Rapiers and you will leave the kills in nearly every adventure.

I agree STR is the way to go for sure. And I think I can find a couple DR breaking Hvy Picks to use if I look hard enough.

I know quite a lot of Rogues like a radiance (rapier/khopesh) in the main hand and a lightning II in the off hand, which is a good combo.

I was planning on going ahead and making two Rad II Heavy picks instead of rapiers. Since I dont crit as much as I would with a rapier, my thought is that dual wielding them and a Radiance Guard item will be a reliable source of blindness. Might offhand an Earthgrab one if i can still blind reliably.

[Intension]

I'm working on a TR str rogue and I'm plannig to use heavy picks.
Since I have a RadII rapier from last life and both are piercing, I'm planning to use Heavy pick in main hand (deathnip, eartII) and RadII rapier in off-and when I need to blind mobs or 2 earthII haevy picks for epic or when intimitank is available.

I still have to try it (I'm at lvl 11) but i think it can work well

[Merlocke]

I'm working on a TR str rogue and I'm plannig to use heavy picks.
Since I have a RadII rapier from last life and both are piercing, I'm planning to use Heavy pick in main hand (deathnip, eartII) and RadII rapier in off-and when I need to blind mobs or 2 earthII haevy picks for epic or when intimitank is available.

I still have to try it (I'm at lvl 11) but i think it can work well

I considered the deathnip, as I like untyped damage. Im plannign on wearing the bloodstone though for seeker +6 (maybe one day +8 for an epic one)

Except for boss fights though, I think itll probably be best to always have at least one radiance II weapon in my offhand (and a Rad Guard on) to get that SA damage all day long. So if I put anything else in his hand it think itd be an earthgrab H Pick to compliment the critting. I think Getting SA damage on a held mob is just insane.

Am considering a redscale docent [add Flaming burst] and an Earthgrab/Freezing Ice guard to maximize the auto-crit DPS.

Rapiers 15+ crit range is the best, but I like that I wont have to hotswap weapons when I see a held trash mob; it will be taking as much damage as I can dish out (x4 per swing) on an auto-crit.

Heres what I've worked out so far..I wonder how much the actual numbers will be..

+5 GS Heavy Pick with a 1d8x4 +1 Force ritual (38 Str, full WF PA, seeker +6)
2d6 Holy
3d10 Flaming burst (x4)
3d10 Flaming Blast (x4); extra 4d6 on a natural 20
4d6 light damage+blindness
17d6 + 20 sneak attack damage



Is there anything I could do do get more DPS out of this setup?

[Intension]

Is there anything I could do do get more DPS out of this setup?

buy a bazooka?

the DPS will be a blast with that setup

I'm still thinking that radII rapier in the off-hand for the highest critical proc is as good as (very close to it to be honest) 2 RadII picks and free your main hand slot for something else like earth II/lightII or whatever. You still have a main hand with x4 and a decent x2 on off-hand. Depending on party setup you can skip totally radII and go with 2 picks with a double x4

I don't really have the numbers, just the feeling of it. I'll let you know how it will work as soon as I cap the toon

[Merlocke]

Moved the feats around a bit, as the 15 dex will let me take TWF sooner and will be taking PA later so as not to miss too much during the lower levels.