Solo Sustainable DPS

[IAlwaysLose]

So, I was trying to think of what would be a solid class to play that would give me melee fun -and- not be reliant on potions all the time, and while I considered paladin for a while, I'd want to go pure paladin which would not give me such fun tools as Evasion or 3d6+6 backstabs at +3 to hit in addition to already obscene to hit in addition to power attack and all, and this is what I came up with. The levelling isn't optimized I am sure, I tried to go about it as what would be -fun- to actually play while playing it and not interminable. The dps should be rather, well, good for a melee, especially if she's allowed to be dps and not a tank (Which she most definately isn't really), though all in all I have no idea what she will end up with if she ever gets the best gear, that'd be cool if someone could figure that out real quick too I -think- with proper gear she should get to 39 umd to allow the use of arcane wands and scrolls (If I read correctly about UMD anyways). Cheers.

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Level 20 Chaotic Good Drow Female
(6 Fighter \ 5 Rogue \ 9 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 496 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 14
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 20                   22
Dexterity            16                 17                   20
Constitution         12                 12                   12
Intelligence         12                 12                   12
Wisdom               12                 12                   14
Charisma             10                 10                   10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               7                 14                   14
Bluff                 0                  0                    0
Concentration         1                 23                   23
Diplomacy             0                  0                    0
Disable Device        5                 15                   16
Haggle                3                  3                    3
Heal                  1                  3                    3
Hide                  3                  5                    5
Intimidate            0                  0                    0
Jump                  7                 20                   20
Listen                5                  6                    8
Move Silently         3                  5                    5
Open Lock             7                 15                   16
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  1                    1
Search                5                  5                    9
Spot                  5                  6                   10
Swim                  3                  7                    7
Tumble                4                  6                    6
Use Magic Device      4                 23                   23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Drow Spell Resistance
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Elven Perception I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I


Level 8 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery I


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+5)
Feat: (Automatic) Trapmaking
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance IV


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 16 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+8)

Also, as I have zero idea about enhancements beyond like, level 4, I couldn't tell you if I'd missed something really important I could have gotten otherwise with different enhancement spends. But heck... she should be able to hit anything and it's sister. 20 base bab from Divine Power + 3 from divine favor + 3 from flanking mastery + 2 from rogue sneak attack strike + 1 from weapon focus + 5 from weapon -2 from oTWF, +8 from strength, etc etc...

[richieelias27]

Sneak attack damage isnt sustainable damage on a solo build.

Now this wouldnt exactly be true if you keep a sturdy hireling around all the time to dump aggro onto (which will be incredibly difficult with zero diplomacy), but said hireling probably wont last very long. The same can be said for summons.

MinII blind affect will also help, but you wont be seeing that until the end of your leveling career.

Outside of those scenarios, you wont be getting any sneak attacks.

edit: should be RadII

[IAlwaysLose]

Well the sneak attack damage is a biproduct of evasion, umd, disable device, and open locks. I hate running into chests and being unable to get to them or unlock them.

And obviously am not -against- grouping, and figured in a group situation I would be sneak attacking a WHOLE lot more, and could take care of my own healing till late game so as to be less burden on the cleric/favored soul/?? for example.

Should I take the only comment about the build being sneak attack as otherwise, being ok?

[MysteryNotes]

Sneak attack damage isnt sustainable damage on a solo build.

Now this wouldnt exactly be true if you keep a sturdy hireling around all the time to dump aggro onto (which will be incredibly difficult with zero diplomacy), but said hireling probably wont last very long. The same can be said for summons.

MinII blind affect will also help, but you wont be seeing that until the end of your leveling career.

Outside of those scenarios, you wont be getting any sneak attacks.

I think you mean radiance blindness

[d4rkstars]

this build is very strange and i advise you rethink it

[Kintro]

Sneak attack damage isnt sustainable damage on a solo build.

Exactly what I thought upon reading.

MinII blind affect will also help, but you wont be seeing that until the end of your leveling career.

He means Radiance 2.

Is there much point in the Rogue levels beyond evasion? What could be fun is to swap the five Rogue levels for 3 Monk (+2 cleric), pick up Whirling Steel Strike (you have the prereqs already) as a Monk bonus then switch race to Elf and specialise in longswords. You'd gain a bit of AC and access to +2 con/wis/str/dex stances aswell as Aligning the Heavens (25% sp cost reduction).

Well the sneak attack damage is a biproduct of evasion, umd, disable device, and open locks. I hate running into chests and being unable to get to them or unlock them.

Ok, that's fair enough reason to have 2 rogue levels but why 5? You could have 3 more cleric levels, a bunch more spellpoints and access to better spells.

[richieelias27]

I think you mean radiance blindness

Yup, that I did.

As a solo build it seems pretty solid. As a group build... eh, itd be alright. Just dont expect to be doing much raiding later on. I was only commenting on the solo aspect of it, in which case those 3 additional rogue levels are mostly wasted. Open lock does not require maximizing in order to open every chest/door in the game, and very few traps will require extreme Disable Device or Search skills . Besides, you have evasion and healing ability... just run through them.

On the off chance that you do plan on disarming traps - your search skill is way too low to find them.

[IAlwaysLose]

Because I needed those skill points from rogue to get UMD, Disable device, and open locks to be sustainable with item boosts to be useful. I also took a look at the 6th level spells, and barring heal and maybe mass cure moderate, none of them were really beneficial to the purpose of the build. The build doesn't have the DC to make BB worthwhile or any of the other offensive cleric spells. With access to level 5 she has Divine Favor, Divine Power, Free Action, Restoration, and a slew of other utility spells that helps while soloing and can help supplement the party as well. Heck her turn undeads are useless hence why she can at least give a smidgeon of spell points to people. That's my thought anyways.

Also, because 3d6+6 bonus SA is better than 2d6+3. Also True Sight spell should help with that and items no?

[richieelias27]

For solo content, BB should be doing some decent damage even on saves (except vs things with evasion)

As for the group aspect:
The party will require a trap rogue since your search is so low, so that job is already taken.
They'll need a main healer so your buffs are being overridden
You might get chosen if they're hard up for a 6th member

Not a great group build, and later in the game you might have some problems getting into groups

[Lord_WC]

Ok, that's fair enough reason to have 2 rogue levels but why 5? You could have 3 more cleric levels, a bunch more spellpoints and access to better spells.

If you go 12 in a divine spellcasting class I would consider fvs. Not much thing to gain via cleric, but bigger spell pool, much better reflex save (for your evasion), and some really nice enhancements/feats (and some combat damage as well on top of spells).

And before you start on the healing aura, dungeon scaling makes encounters so easy solo that an occasional heal spell is more than enough.

But, for a true solo build I would pick 8-10-14 bard (warchanter). Self haste/displace/rage and songs to make up for the missing AB (and give a few points plus to damage), and maybe GH for saves is huge. You can self heal (either with speccing for it - i think it would be ill-advised or UMD about anything), get traps, fight, summon, whatever. Fun times

[IAlwaysLose]

Thank you for the input, bards aren't really my thing, and I always looked at favored soul as being like paladin and sorcerer, one of those things that did best if just went all the way pure...

Mostly, just am trying to find a build that I think would be fun, offer some variety, and get me to 20 relatively quickly so I can unlock 32 char builds and maybe try and get something made that'd be epic worthy... I suppose I could do a drow sorc or wizard, I imagine with their bonuses they could pull it off...

[Kintro]

Also, because 3d6+6 bonus SA is better than 2d6+3. Also True Sight spell should help with that and items no?

True Seeing does nothing for Search but Find Traps will help a little. You'll still need to put points into it if you want to get most traps.

Where are you putting your level up stat points? I don't see it in the planner.

[IAlwaysLose]

Oh sorry they all went into strength, hence needing the +1 dex tome at level 8.

[Kintro]

Oh sorry they all went into strength, hence needing the +1 dex tome at level 8.

So you should have 23 str (16 base + 5 levels + 2 Ftr Str). Eat a +1 tome for 24.

[IAlwaysLose]

Well yes, I only put in the bare minimum +1 tome because I don't have high levels to fund/find tomes and suchlike. Obviously, with more tomes/gear it just gets stronger. And yes should be 23, I must have forgotten to click properly on the last attribute at 20 or something.

Sorry about that, and thanks for all the discussion, it's helping me a great deal when it's constructive.

[Lord_WC]

Thank you for the input, bards aren't really my thing, and I always looked at favored soul as being like paladin and sorcerer, one of those things that did best if just went all the way pure...

Mostly, just am trying to find a build that I think would be fun, offer some variety, and get me to 20 relatively quickly so I can unlock 32 char builds and maybe try and get something made that'd be epic worthy... I suppose I could do a drow sorc or wizard, I imagine with their bonuses they could pull it off...

Before I had my first bard I thought the same. Now I think they are probably the most badassest class ever. Give it a try, you won't regret it.

[IAlwaysLose]

Seriously, I dislike bards, always have, always will. It's a long term hate from 2nd edition I sing a song and make everyone bad @$$! Not my style It's just a personal preference thing. I was contemplating a Favored Soul pure to 20... might be easier than this. Was thinking more nuke/caster type, 16 wis to start but I dunno how well it would work compared to a sorc/wiz.

[hecate355]

I would just roll melee bard, it offers everything you asked for, sustainable dps, buffs, selfheal

[hecate355]

well you got the answer, whether you like it or not, is your bard thing something irrational? Melee capable fvs would be my 2nd suggestion, but its considerably lower dps than warchanter imo, it can selfheal til mobs get bored and die tho.

[Lord_WC]

Yeah, but seeing 150-170ish crits floating above your opponent's head brings a certain amount of, hm, justification

A 12 fvs/6fig/2 rog is certanly a viable combination for solo play. I would make it a wf and go thf. Dump cha (about 8 starting if you plan to use a +2 tome) and wis (6), and put everything in str/con. Or make it a 12fvs/6ran/2rog if you like twf better. I think it would be a really easy toon to level. The latter has some promises of reaching meaningful ac for normal end-game stuff, if you can gear it out.