Ranger/Rogue/Fighter build question...

[ajyl2k]

Which build would be better: Tempest III, Tempest II/Kensai I, or Tempest II/Assassin I?
I don't have access to Monk as I am F2P atm and still fairly new. I've been looking through the threads and originally was going to go for Tempest III, but now I'm not so sure. So far I'm 4/1/1

[Silvershaper]

IMO, it's impossible to answer that question directly. The answer would depend very much on what you want from your character, and I'm sure you can gather more information in the threads dedicated to the specific builds on what they offer. All of them are good, but they are different and come with each their own advantages and disadvantages.

[unbongwah]

Better at what? Without knowing what your build goals and play style is like, it's tough to give advice.

[Darconeious]

There is nothing that is a so called lock up build. make your path, follow it , you will make changes along the way. However a multi class build will be more challenging if you don't understand the game . There are a few really good builds out there for what you want like the exploiter build, and there are several debatable, one of which is the tempest 1/ kensai 2/ (rouge,monk) -6/12/2-build . Get the character builder, it is a a must. And good luck.

[thwart]

A WF wizard?

[ajyl2k]

I want to be able to solo or group and still be able to contribute to the group, though I usually solo quests through normal and sometimes hard before grouping for elite / epic. What are pros and cons of each? I was originally following a trapmonkey build, but started thinking about the usefulness of Tempest III vs. Multi-Classing.

[unbongwah]

Compared to Tempest III, Tempest II / Kensai I would get you extra HPs, 4 extra feats (tho 2 go towards your Kensai pre-reqs), and probably nets you higher DPS (someone else who's better at DPS calcs can confirm or deny that); but costs you skill pts (which might hamper your trapmonkeying or other abilities) and lvl 4 spells (not a huge deal IMHO though CSW is nice for emergencies). It might make sense if you want a more melee-focused build, though it depends at least partially on what skills you want to have.

Tempest II / Assassin I gets you extra skill pts & higher sneak attacks, but costs some HPs and lvl 4 spells again. Also, Assassin I is considered a fairly weak PrE, as the poisons still don't work AFAIK, though the +1d6 SA is nice. And naturally, SAs don't do a lot of good while soloing since you're the one drawing all the aggro (unless you use hirelings as decoys or Deception / Radiance weapons).

[ajyl2k]

Thanks a lot. I appreciate the feedback. I'm gonna try the T2/K1 here's my attempt at the build while trying to avoid negative modifiers, though I'll probably just take the hit to CHA for CON, hopefully I'll be able to get my hands on some tomes to increase con, int, and maybe wis for hp/skills/sp:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(6 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 12 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 290
Spell Points: 155 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 17
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    22
Dexterity            14                    18
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             10                    10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    21
Bluff                 0                     1
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             2                     8
Disable Device        4                    15
Haggle                2                     2
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            0                     1
Jump                  5                    12
Listen                4                     5
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             6                    14
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                4                    10
Spot                  4                     7
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                4                     6
Use Magic Device      4                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild II


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 12 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I


Level 16 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II

[kernal42]

Consider 12/7/1. Ranger already gives you evasion, so the extra rogue level doesn't have any benefits (aside from a few skill points). Fighter7 will give you a better haste boost, more stunning blow tactics (if you're into that), and unlock another tier of toughness enhancements.

Cheers,
Kernal

[unbongwah]

Your Search & Disable skills are too low to be much good, IMHO; I would dump-stat WIS & CHA for more INT to boost them; might also lower Balance, Jump, and Diplomacy. Rogue 2 vs fighter 7 is basically extra skill pts & +3 SA vs extra HPs & Haste Boost III. I would drop ranger DEX III & human DEX for human CON (maybe start CON 15 too) and human Toughness III; extra HPs is more useful than +2 DEX, IMHO.

[Darconeious]

Your Search & Disable skills are too low to be much good, IMHO; I would dump-stat WIS & CHA for more INT to boost them; might also lower Balance, Jump, and Diplomacy. Rogue 2 vs 7 is basically extra skill pts & +3 SA vs extra HPs & Haste Boost III. I would drop ranger DEX III & human DEX for human CON (maybe start CON 15 too) and human Toughness III; extra HPs is more useful than +2 DEX, IMHO.

Unbongwa is correct , and wise!

[kernal42]

Rogue 2 vs fighter 7 is basically extra skill pts & +3 SA vs extra HPs & Haste Boost III.

The +3 SA comes with rogue 1. The only useful enhancement in this case from rogue 2 is sneak attack accuracy, which isn't that useful at all. Everything else you said, of course, I fully agree with.

Cheers,
Kernal

[Delt]

Thanks a lot. I appreciate the feedback. I'm gonna try the T2/K1 here's my attempt at the build while trying to avoid negative modifiers, though I'll probably just take the hit to CHA for CON, hopefully I'll be able to get my hands on some tomes to increase con, int, and maybe wis for hp/skills/sp:

Similar to something I built a long time ago (when Tempest was first announced). 32point Dwarf, 13rang/6fighter/1rog (Delt, Thelanis). Feel free to check him out, but my.ddo hasn't updated for a while.

As someone else said, you probably don't need the 2nd rogue level...but then again, you are taking actual rogue skills (I didn't, besides lockpick and UMD). My personal suggestion, if you go this route, is to readjust your stats (18,14*,16,8,8,8 [dex less if you have tomes, 13 is your min target w/ tomes]).

There are better builds for sure, but this guy is still pretty fun -- more of a do-it-all type. I think you'd actually be better served by doing 12fighter/6ranger/2rog (for example) but whatever.

[ajyl2k]

Alrighty then. Gonna take another stab at this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Erragorn 
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(7 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 12 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 314
Spell Points: 155 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 15
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    22
Dexterity            14                    16
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    10
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         2                     4
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        5                    24
Haggle                1                     1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  7                    13
Listen                3                     6
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             6                    13
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                5                    23
Spot                  3                     7
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                6                     8
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Item Defense I


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II


Level 20 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III

Does this look a little more promising? I decided to spread the fighter levels out to keep my trapmonkey skills relevant. There's always a chance of tome usage too, but probably from drops unless I get an overtime check or sumthin.