A word TO our sponsors

[Drfirewater79]

I just wanted to take a moment and thank some of the Turbine staff for there hard work IN LAMA-land above and beyond programing and development.

Having Devs around for the testing of the event was wonderful .... and i really hope you guys keep up the good work. I dont just mean awesome raids and events (but i do include it) what i mean is getting in groups with the players, answering what questions you could and really listening and replying to our feedback.

Its not that you guys dont do it on the forums ... but its harder ... we understand that .. some stuff said on forums becomes promises that you cannot always live up to in the eyes of the players. But its nice to know that you have been heard and that the feedback is not just swept under the table.

I really hope you guys have learned alot from this experience with the players on Lama, and I really hope that this is a sign of things to come. I think having these moments to walk through quests with the players and test stuff with players and talk back and forth about stuff with them in real time not only increases community spirit but increases the faith some of us old vets have in the development team we often dispise based on changes (see 80% of my threads).

I feel renewed in my faith in DDO ... to some degree ... I mean i hate alot of the nerfs from update 5-7 ... didnt change that... but I do have faith that the team cares. Something i was unsure of for the last 2 years to be honest.

Want to put out a personal thank you to Thoon for organizing it through many fun events and incentives.... but also want to personally thank some others that I personally partied with as well.

Tolero- For being up front with information and trying to answer questions without giving promises. You have always been one of my favorite Turbine Staff members keep up the good work.

Glin- on first night ... you where really helpful ... and you really showed you where listening by responding fairly frequently to questions.

Purplefuze- sorry if i am spelling it wrong ... was a blast having you around for a bit on the last night ..

Tarant - We have had our differences in the past ... prolly not much gonna change there .. but was really fun to make you dance... thank you for being there for me to pester. Revenge is sweet ... even if short lived and not quite as effective as a forum ban :P

and last but not least

Phax- I really really want to thank you for being a good sport .... you really went above and beyond in my mind ... not only did you answer questions right away .. but when you didnt have the answer you sent tells to the people who do (or asked then in the office which ever it was) and got back to us right away. It really felt like you where one of the guys (you know us non flying types). You more then anyone really renewed my faith in the team .... showing you could have a sense of humor and responding as fast as you could to our questions and general friendly demeanor inspired this thread. Thanks for renewing MY faith in the team personally...... I will always remember that moment we spent alone in the dragon room (Phax is a real goer ... know what i mean ... wink wink ... nudge nudge ... say no more say no more .. eh eh) Thanks for being such a good sport.


Some of you might think this is a fanboi thing .... let me assure you its not ... just really happy they spent sometime with the players and really hope this is a sign for the future of lama-land ... and that we will have more dev interaction on lama in the future ... both in testing events ... AND new quest lines.

[Strakeln]

Shouldn't they be thanking you for the free playtesting you performed?

[Drfirewater79]

Shouldn't they be thanking you for the free playtesting you performed?

Yes ... i guess ... but I would have tested for free anyway ... having them spend the time to play test WITH me ... and responding to feedback ... which we dont always get on the forums was priceless ... and should be encouraged.

[Mockduck]

I'm with ya, Dr. The Turbine folks have really done a nice job for these on-Lammania events.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Oh I love having them around.
Reminds me of my Isengard days at LotRO. Fun times, fun times.

[Elphvyra]

...
Its not that you guys dont do it on the forums ... but its harder ... we understand that .. some stuff said on forums becomes promises that you cannot always live up to in the eyes of the players. But its nice to know that you have been heard and that the feedback is not just swept under the table.
...

For the most part, I agree with what you said. Except that. The Dev's have NEVER "Promised" us anything, have they? But too many people seem to think they, (the Devs), have. And when something doesn't happen when or the way they, (the readers), think it should there's a whole bunch of irate folks spamming the forums about "broken promises".

I'm sorry for the rant, but this has long been a pet peeve of mine.

[Drfirewater79]

For the most part, I agree with what you said. Except that. The Dev's have NEVER "Promised" us anything, have they? But too many people seem to think they, (the Devs), have. And when something doesn't happen when or the way they, (the readers), think it should there's a whole bunch of irate folks spamming the forums about "broken promises".

I'm sorry for the rant, but this has long been a pet peeve of mine.

Everything a person in charge says is going to happen that doesnt happen is a broken promise. This is why its so hard for the dev team to open up in TEXT on the FORUMS ... cause text can be quoted .... posts can be linked ...

Everything they say IS coming is a promise ... if they say we are "thinking" about adding something .. that means with feedback it might never be done or it might be rushed to completion.

Like Druids .. they said DRUIDS WILL COME ...4.5 years later people are still screaming you promised druids ... cause they did .... now we know druids are likely to be here in the next year and a bit ... so long as there are no more delays .. So they are keeping there promise.

The DEV team itself has not promised much of anything ... but people blame the devs for promises made by the production staff ... and it has been quoted and brought up so many times things like Kate saying Gnomes will NEVER be in DDO ... so far its not a lie ... but then contradicted by her husband who said everything that is in the Core DnD rulebooks WILL be in DDO at some time or another.

this is a big promise .. but no timeline ... this is the one thing turbine learned in year one ... dont give em release dates till your ready to release it ....

broken promises and shattered dreams.

But that is neither here nor there ... i suspect there are alot of staff at turbine project DDO today that where not here 4 years ago ... and I am also willing to bet that since going free to play they have increased the number of developers for the game by alot too ... this is obvious to me because of the rate of updates AND the quality of them.

I think this is a Great team we have now ... and with a little more player interaction with Devs on lama ... I think this game will really stand a chance at being one of the best mmos on the market. Only a few things this game is missing compared to other big mmos ...and alot of them i think are being worked on.

[Drfirewater79]

I'm with ya, Dr. The Turbine folks have really done a nice job for these on-Lammania events.

You now have proof ... I dont only post about stuff i hate ... and i dont hate the dev team

well not all of them ... i do have an arch rival .... you know who you are ....

[Chai]

Everything a person in charge says is going to happen that doesnt happen is a broken promise. This is why its so hard for the dev team to open up in TEXT on the FORUMS ... cause text can be quoted .... posts can be linked ...

Everything they say IS coming is a promise ... if they say we are "thinking" about adding something .. that means with feedback it might never be done or it might be rushed to completion.

The fact that many people believe this is the case is exactly why you dont often times see DEVs in threads typing walls of text for every single issue that occurs. All we have to do in order to see why there is so little communication - or was in the past anyhow - is look at the customer responses to previous communication.

Like Druids .. they said DRUIDS WILL COME ...4.5 years later people are still screaming you promised druids ... cause they did .... now we know druids are likely to be here in the next year and a bit ... so long as there are no more delays .. So they are keeping there promise.

The fact that forumites still harp about druids not being implemented in 2007 is a perfect example of what I stated above. If a Dev says something eons ago, they will still be raked over the coals for it regularly years after the fact if it doesnt happen the way they said it would. If I put myself in their shoes, with them not being required to comminucate on the forums, I would likely adopt the "read by a dev" response I see here and there. Yeah, you can hold me to the fact that I read your wall of text moaning about something we said 1 president and three congresses ago.

The DEV team itself has not promised much of anything ... but people blame the devs for promises made by the production staff ... and it has been quoted and brought up so many times things like Kate saying Gnomes will NEVER be in DDO ... so far its not a lie ... but then contradicted by her husband who said everything that is in the Core DnD rulebooks WILL be in DDO at some time or another.

this is a big promise .. but no timeline ... this is the one thing turbine learned in year one ... dont give em release dates till your ready to release it ....

broken promises and shattered dreams.

Had they actually implemented druids when they said they would, hilarity would have ensued, big time. If people think the WoP nerf or the U5 combat nerf was bad, the druid rebalance issues would have made that look like another day at the office. Once the min maxers get ahold of shape shifting and divine spells, and are able to mix that with what we currently are able to work with, there will likely be alot of overpowered combinations available. "You mean I can have wall of fire, finger of death, damage shields, self buffs, heal spells, AND shape shift into some form that grants me huge str bonus + con bonus + AC bonus....you get the idea. All exploiter builds will be TR imediately into half orc man bear pig druids, LOL. Then the nerf bat gets swung. Rinse, repeat.

But that is neither here nor there ... i suspect there are alot of staff at turbine project DDO today that where not here 4 years ago ... and I am also willing to bet that since going free to play they have increased the number of developers for the game by alot too ... this is obvious to me because of the rate of updates AND the quality of them.

I think this is a Great team we have now ... and with a little more player interaction with Devs on lama ... I think this game will really stand a chance at being one of the best mmos on the market. Only a few things this game is missing compared to other big mmos ...and alot of them i think are being worked on.

Yeap, it takes dough to make bread. I wish all the people who moaned about free to play marketing were equally as loud and passionate when things are going well. Previous to that we went longer than a year without anything new. It could have all gone South, Codemasters style, and we could all be playing PnP again, heh. (not that we ever stopped)

[Memnir]

I'd very much like to thank Thoon.
Having a "captain" to help manage the testing has been fantastic, in my opinion, and as such it has felt a lot more organized and useful to both the players and the Devs. The steady diet of special events on Llama has also helped to keep people interested and going back to help out.

[Drfirewater79]

Yeap, it takes dough to make bread. I wish all the people who moaned about free to play marketing were equally as loud and passionate when things are going well. Previous to that we went longer than a year without anything new. It could have all gone South, Codemasters style, and we could all be playing PnP again, heh. (not that we ever stopped)

Yeah .. i agree ... Free to play thing helps pay the bills then i am glad to be a part of a game that realizes it needs to make money to keep people happy about spending money.

If the current rate of development was around from day one ... you know back when atari was paying the bills ... or borrowing money from turbine to pay the bills ... or whatever ... nothing was getting done ... now that WB has stepped up and turbine realized atari was not worth waiting on and started stepping up and taking control of this game ... things have gotten alot better.

Still on other games forums DDO is highly considered one of the worst mmos around... i find it funny that wow players think this is a bad game but still play wow?

also i feel the need to defend DDO especially on SWToR forums ... saying want to see a bad mmo ... look at champions online.... STO.... SWG.... GW1 ... sacred I and II ... FF11 and 14..

DDO is not bad game ... its a good game with a bad wrap because of its rough past... and alot of players leaving this game with a bad taste in there mouth.This game has done nothing but get better over the years ...
nerfs always suck .. and there will always be ways the players would have done it better ... that is the nature of the beast .... the reason i want to go back to school for video game development myself. Cause i think i could do it better ... but need the certificate before i can back up my words

anyway .. i just glad the devs are taking a hands on approach with the community in lama to help try to make this game better .. in the players eyes.

Hope some of the comments we made get turned into game changes in the future (some commenting on monk mass heal not working to damage undead and monk fist of light not doing light damage instead doing healing damage and long cool downs on some effects like tomb of jade) but we will see ... this game is ever changing ... after all.

[Chai]

Still on other games forums DDO is highly considered one of the worst mmos around... i find it funny that wow players think this is a bad game but still play wow?

Bwahahahahahahahahahaw!!!!

It is very hard for someone to jump from a cookie cutter game like WOW into DDO with all the combinations available, especially if their first MMO was WOW or something like EQ. If someones first exposure to fantasy was a cookie cutter game, theres a steep learning curve involved to get into DnD of any type.

WOW players are used to the fact that every paladin in the known universe wears purple armor and has the same gear for their spec at the same tier of the game, with no multi-class options, and having the same mount, boxed in spec build options only available to that specific class, hits for the same damage, with the same attack rate, same movement speed, heals for the same health for the same mana, etc...

They come over here and roll up a paladin, get frustrated because there are sooo many decisions to make, get on the boards and start asking questions about building, and get assaulted with all the options available, then retreat back to their cookie cutter comfort zone that is WOW and plow onto their boards gabbing about how DDO sucks as a game. I take these people to the pit or coal chamber and ask them to lead us through.

The fact that Turbine could make a game where people still play 4 year old content baffles the rest of the MMO community. Alot of the older zones in other MMOs are abandoned, and this usually happens after one or two more expansions are released. Add that to all the possible combinations available to play, and thats where the attraction is for this game. People not comfortable with putting in the effort to master the learning curve, play WOW, heh.

So far I think a better job has been done appealing to the MMO masses and making DDO look more attractive from that standpoint, than was done in the past.

[Tendare]

Hey you forgot MadFloyd

Oh that's because he was in our group :P

"Waves Hi to MadFloyd"

It was a great event both nights. Looking forward to Thursday!!!

[Drfirewater79]

I'd very much like to thank Thoon.
Having a "captain" to help manage the testing has been fantastic, in my opinion, and as such it has felt a lot more organized and useful to both the players and the Devs. The steady diet of special events on Llama has also helped to keep people interested and going back to help out.

I agree ... but i also think had there been no event to test ... but devs where hosting raid night ... doing the new raid at different level ranges at different times to test everything on each difficulty ... would have provided the same "kind" of feedback and response.

I think the event itself drew alot of people to lamaland ... but knowing the devs where being active and you could talk and hear them talk about the game ... that made coming back worth it.

at least it did for me ... i was happy with what i learned first event day ... came back because i wanted to play with more devs and see what changes they made or where thinking about making.

I dont know if i can say i saw so and so dev and they are a good player ... but i can tell you some of them ... are great people... regardless of there game experience without cheats.

[Drfirewater79]

Hey you forgot MadFloyd

Oh that's because he was in our group :P

"Waves Hi to MadFloyd"

It was a great event both nights. Looking forward to Thursday!!!

Yeah i didnt include madfloyd or eladrin because i didnt actually physically see them ... so its hard for me to give a personal thanks to someone i didnt see in game.

However .... I was kinda hoping to open the door to others ... like yourself ... who played with other Devs ... to toss the thanks for all the hard work and thanks for joining in the fun comments to other devs they did have the pleasure of hanging with.

[Drfirewater79]

Bwahahahahahahahahahaw!!!!

It is very hard for someone to jump from a cookie cutter game like WOW into DDO with all the combinations available, especially if their first MMO was WOW or something like EQ. If someones first exposure to fantasy was a cookie cutter game, theres a steep learning curve involved to get into DnD of any type.

How ****ed would you be if i used your entire post on the SWToR forums?

I think you said it better then i ever could .. but would love to add it to my sig through links ... even if only to **** off some wow heads.

:P

[MsEricka]

Phax- I really really want to thank you for being a good sport .... you really went above and beyond in my mind ... not only did you answer questions right away .. but when you didnt have the answer you sent tells to the people who do

On the second beta test evening, we had Phax in our group for most of the event. He really did do these things which was awesome of him. We also had Tolero and PurpleFooz in our party as well.

Plus Phax let us fly in the dragon room, so double props for him

[Drfirewater79]

On the second beta test evening, we had Phax in our group for most of the event. He really did do these things which was awesome of him. We also had Tolero and PurpleFooz in our party as well.

Plus Phax let us fly in the dragon room, so double props for him

yeah i was with you ... that was the third night actually ... you guys left me alone with Phax and fooz and fooz left and it was just me and phax ...

no matter what anyone tells you .. nothing dirty happened ... i swear ... nothing .. oh the dirt on my knees ... it ... ah .. was a ... from ... a ... running around in menchurian ... you know chasing gnolls ... nothing to do with the time i spent alone with phax in a dirty dungeon with nothing to do while we waited ... on opposite sides of the room ... for the dragon to appear ...

... really ....

[Tendare]

Yeah i didnt include madfloyd or eladrin because i didnt actually physically see them ... so its hard for me to give a personal thanks to someone i didnt see in game.

However .... I was kinda hoping to open the door to others ... like yourself ... who played with other Devs ... to toss the thanks for all the hard work and thanks for joining in the fun comments to other devs they did have the pleasure of hanging with.

Did in original thread

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=278756http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=278756

[Chai]

How ****ed would you be if i used your entire post on the SWToR forums?

I think you said it better then i ever could .. but would love to add it to my sig through links ... even if only to **** off some wow heads.

:P

I suppose you could link the entire thing if you want. I just dont want the clowning to get too thick if some of their players want to start some antics. I think because of the fact that there are less mods per forumite ratio on many boards, the people who play firemen dont even show up until its a forest fire.