GTWF - Worth it?

**stoolcannon** · 10-12-2010, 04:36 PM

Ignore thread title please I meant GTHF....

I recently selected GTHF as my 15th level feat and I haven't really noticed a huge increase in DPS. Is it even worth it or should I just replace it with toughness or improved critical for blunt weapons?

I seem to recall seeing somewhere that GTWF isn't even working correctly now but that it is supposed to be updated in U7.

**Tobril** · 10-12-2010, 04:38 PM

GTWF is working.

The difference between ITWF and GTWF is so substantial that I stuck to THF when TRing until getting GTWF.

**Kza** · 10-12-2010, 04:39 PM

Its worth it. 20% more offhand attacks = a good chunk of extra dps. (raises % number from 60 to 80% not 20 % more)

**Consumer** · 10-12-2010, 04:47 PM

Because the feat doesn't result in bigger numbers or faster animations of course it is not as noticeable as IC or PA e.c.t.

However it is essential if you wish to maximise TWF DPS. Were talking ~50 DPS on a Barb, so around a 10% increase.

**dkyle** · 10-12-2010, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Tobril

The difference between ITWF and GTWF is so substantial that I stuck to THF when TRing until getting GTWF.

Yep. A Carnifex will serve almost anyone well until they hit GTWF.

For TWF, the three feats are pretty much mandatory. A Rogue, while leveling, might do better with two weapons and just TWF or ITWF rather than a two-hander with no THF feats, but for everyone else, GTWF is what makes TWF worthwhile over THF.

**Consumer** · 10-12-2010, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by dkyle

Yep. A Carnifex will serve almost anyone well until they hit GTWF.

For TWF, the three feats are pretty much mandatory. A Rogue, while leveling, might do better with two weapons and just TWF or ITWF rather than a two-hander with no THF feats, but for everyone else, GTWF is what makes TWF worthwhile over THF.

Actually a Barb wielding min II Khops with just TWF will out DPS a GTHF min II wielding Barb. Takes an epic SoS and twitch to beat ITWF.

**stoolcannon** · 10-12-2010, 05:02 PM

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Of course I typed GTWF and I meant GTHF

DAG NABBIT!

**dkyle** · 10-12-2010, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Consumer

Actually a Barb wielding min II Khops with just TWF will out DPS a GTHF min II wielding Barb. Takes an epic SoS and twitch to beat ITWF.

That seems... unlikely. Are the numbers on this available somewhere?

**dkyle** · 10-12-2010, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by stoolcannon

Of course I typed GTWF and I meant GTHF

Ah, in that case, no, GTHF kind of sucks. If you have anything else worth taking, it's not a big loss. In fact, it's possible, by "twitching" the right way, to get better DPS without any of the THF feats at all, vs. auto-attack with GTHF.

**stoolcannon** · 10-12-2010, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by dkyle

Ah, in that case, no, GTHF kind of sucks. If you have anything else worth taking, it's not a big loss. In fact, it's possible, by "twitching" the right way, to get better DPS without any of the THF feats at all, vs. auto-attack with GTHF.

Twitching doesn't work anymore I don't think. They changed the animation reset so it no longer resets when you twitch. I read that somewhere on here though so it could be a big pack of lies.

I think I'm gonna swap GTHF for toughness in any event.

**Darkrok** · 10-12-2010, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Tobril

GTWF is working.

The difference between ITWF and GTWF is so substantial that I stuck to THF when TRing until getting GTWF.

Yeah, I'm leaning the same way now. I alternate between sword&board or THF (depending on whether max damage or max survivability matters more) even on my arcane archer ranger and plan on sticking with that most of the time up through level 11. I could see a TR actually milking Carnifex until level 12 when their TWF greensteels come into play. It's just that good of a weapon any time you can crit.

**stoolcannon** · 10-12-2010, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by dkyle

That seems... unlikely. Are the numbers on this available somewhere?

It has somewhere between a 0 and 0.0% chance of being true.

**dkyle** · 10-12-2010, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by stoolcannon

Twitching doesn't work anymore I don't think. They changed the animation reset so it no longer resets when you twitch. I read that somewhere on here though so it could be a big pack of lies.

Twitching still works, but it used to gain glancing blows from GTHF. U7 removed glancing blows while moving, so was a hit to it, but it's still viable. Twitchers no longer have a reason to go for GTHF.

I read that the new Half-orc Greataxe animation was either untwitchable or more easily twitchable, depending on who's writing about it. But currently, that animation is not being used on Lammania, and is likely being retooled, if it will show up on Live U7 at all.

**Darkrok** · 10-12-2010, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by stoolcannon

Twitching doesn't work anymore I don't think. They changed the animation reset so it no longer resets when you twitch. I read that somewhere on here though so it could be a big pack of lies.

I think I'm gonna swap GTHF for toughness in any event.

At least in the current live version of the game twitching works. There are many ways to do it but I find moving forward and backward to work best.

**stoolcannon** · 10-12-2010, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Darkrok

At least in the current live version of the game twitching works. There are many ways to do it but I find moving forward and backward to work best.

Hrmmm I'll have to go back to trying it then. I was doing it when i first started the build and I stopped when i read a post here about how it no longer worked.

I still do it to some extent just by the nature of the way combat ends up working anyway.

Definitely decided on removing GTHF though, more HP = better.

Although, I did read somewhere about glancing blows being improved but I think it's with the barbarian capstone, not GTHF.

**Samiusbot** · 10-12-2010, 05:25 PM

I gave up all TWF unless I can get GTWF. The change to use an offhand proc rate made ITWF feel like I was just using a single weapon anyway.

So if your going to fight with two weapons take the feat!

**stoolcannon** · 10-12-2010, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Samiusbot

I gave up all TWF unless I can get GTWF. The change to use an offhand proc rate made ITWF feel like I was just using a single weapon anyway.

So if your going to fight with two weapons take the feat!

My thread has now been graced by celebrity.

**AylinIsAwesome** · 10-12-2010, 05:29 PM

U5 (not U7) removed glancing blows while moving.

In U7, the way glancing blows work will be changed, so that each THF feat will significantly increase the damage on glancing blows. I haven't seen any numbers from anyone yet, but I've heard from a few users that this will make having the feats and standing still better than twitching.

**Consumer** · 10-12-2010, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by dkyle

That seems... unlikely. Are the numbers on this available somewhere?

Yeah, there's an awesome thing called maths, try it.

If that takes you too long try A-O's DPS calc.

**dkyle** · 10-12-2010, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by stoolcannon

Although, I did read somewhere about glancing blows being improved but I think it's with the barbarian capstone, not GTHF.

Glancing blows are being changed. Whether its a buff or nerf is a bit debatable.

Overall, Glancing blows are getting better. With all three feats, they should do more damage than currently. The various Great Weapon aptitude enhancements will now actually do something. The capstone will also do something besides add +2 STR.

However, the Vicious damage FB Barbs get will now be treated as a weapon effect, and only apply to a percentage of glancing blows instead of every one of them. Same with Palis and their KotC damage.

After U7 goes live, GTHF might be more valuable than it is now.

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