Why do u Play a Cleric if u dont want to heal?

[Aashrym]

As I stated I think this is more a case of a team failing all as one, not one single individual's fault. Unless the cleric comes to the forum to defend himself I go with the entire party because I refuse to believe that an entire party can fail because of one bad player, healer or not.

Oh you are so right there. That sounds like a team fail. No one else pulled things out of the fire. I am looking at one specific behavior.

I just don't like the concept of yes I'll heal no I won't because I don't want to now.

[Aashrym]

Regardless of whether the player is the cleric or not, the party should not wipe due to his ability, or inability, to perform his role. The wipe indicates that more than the cleric had a problem.

See my above comment. It's not the party wipe itself that I would say is the responsibility of the cleric. It's the attitude about healing evidenced in the agreement when starting according to the OP I have an issue with.

The cleric may have been able to prevent it. It's possible he might not have been able to. What matters is he didn't try according to the OP. And the reality is that no one else pulled a save out there either.

[PopeJual]

See my above comment. It's not the party wipe itself that I would say is the responsibility of the cleric. It's the attitude about healing evidenced in the agreement when starting according to the OP I have an issue with.

The cleric may have been able to prevent it. It's possible he might not have been able to. What matters is he didn't try according to the OP. And the reality is that no one else pulled a save out there either.

+1 for Aashrym.

It's the line in red above that makes Clerics and FvS go anonymous and avoid pugs in the first place.

IF A PARTY CAN COMPLETE QUESTS WITHOUT A CLERIC OR FVS (and they can), THEN A PARTY'S SUCCESS OR FAILURE DOES NOT REST ON THE CLERIC OR FVS ALONE.

The cleric may hve been able to prevent it. The cleric might not have been able to prevent it. Who knows? The fact that he didn't try contributed to the party's failure, but he does not deserve all of the blame for the wipe any more than he would deserve all of the credit for a successful completion.

[Aranticus]

I stated the behavior listed in the OP is not good behavior based on what is there. Did the OP state that info was different after he sobered up to change the scenario and I missed it?

I might be thinking on more basic terms than you are if you think I am condoning or accusing anyone of anything. I'm saying it's not acceptable to state a person will agree to healing with the intention of not healing. Outside of anything else that may or may not have happened that is what I am looking at.

The OP is one sided but I don't think anyone here would appreciate that type of misrepresentation. Just sayin'

Assume spells "ass u me"

The post I've made is based on my own experience. I have deliberately allowed players to die when they think I'm there just to support their bad gameplay. As a divine, I've never joined a group with the pov that I'm not going to heal, that said, I'll also not join a group looking for a healbot

Now back to the OP, he said people dead in 3 mins. There are 2 paths from start, across pillar to scorps and to right to the kobolds. The scorps might be hard but manageable if you do not also pull the minos. If people are wiping on kobolds, that would be a "wow". Next is going in an elite quest with no consumables at all, that just smacks of laziness or unpreparedness. And this is what I'm basing my arguments on

[Phidius]

Assume spells "ass u me"

...

I do my level best to presume instead

[Previsible]

Regardless of whether the player is the cleric or not, the party should not wipe due to his ability, or inability, to perform his role. The wipe indicates that more than the cleric had a problem.

But according to *some* people it's all one persons fault, ESPECIALLY if they're a healer.

[Aashrym]

Assume spells "ass u me"

The post I've made is based on my own experience. I have deliberately allowed players to die when they think I'm there just to support their bad gameplay. As a divine, I've never joined a group with the pov that I'm not going to heal, that said, I'll also not join a group looking for a healbot

Now back to the OP, he said people dead in 3 mins. There are 2 paths from start, across pillar to scorps and to right to the kobolds. The scorps might be hard but manageable if you do not also pull the minos. If people are wiping on kobolds, that would be a "wow". Next is going in an elite quest with no consumables at all, that just smacks of laziness or unpreparedness. And this is what I'm basing my arguments on

He actually said he asked for healing after 3 minutes and the deaths were at 15 min.

15 min and no healing from someone who signed on as a dedicated healer sounds bad. This isn't because that player is a cleric. It's because that player broke the agreement according to the info in the original post.

Like I state earlier, the party wipe wasn't the sole responsibility of the cleric. The cleric contributed to it (according to the info in the post) by apparently not acting with the agreed on tactics. The entire party still failed and the cleric's actions does not mean other member did or did not contribute to the failure.

You are right about assumption, but I'm not sure what you think I'm assuming. I'm trying to go by the stated info. If there was a reason for not healing other than what was stated in the OP I doubt we'll find out. Is there something that I've stated that you do not agree with?

[Aranticus]

Aashrym, u ever played a healer before?

[Phidius]

He actually said he asked for healing after 3 minutes and the deaths were at 15 min.

15 min and no healing from someone who signed on as a dedicated healer sounds bad. This isn't because that player is a cleric. It's because that player broke the agreement according to the info in the original post.

Like I state earlier, the party wipe wasn't the sole responsibility of the cleric. The cleric contributed to it (according to the info in the post) by apparently not acting with the agreed on tactics. The entire party still failed and the cleric's actions does not mean other member did or did not contribute to the failure.

You are right about assumption, but I'm not sure what you think I'm assuming. I'm trying to go by the stated info. If there was a reason for not healing other than what was stated in the OP I doubt we'll find out. Is there something that I've stated that you do not agree with?

I agree with you regarding the concept of "breach of contract".

... he said :"sure im not a battlecleric " ...

... Coz i like theire melee abilitys he answered...

It seems pretty clear (from the ragequit Op's perspective) that the cleric joined under false pretenses.

However, you do come across as defending the Op, and I think many of the posters in this thread have a bad taste in their mouth from clericing in a PUG populated by folks like the Op.

[Aashrym]

Aashrym, u ever played a healer before?

Bards, that's what I mainly play. Again tho, I'm not sure where we seem to be crossing our wires. It looks like I'm agreeing with what you say and you keep bringing points back up like I'm not agreeing with you.

My point was that if the group asks for a party healer the player should not join the group and then not heal the party. It's pretty straight forward I thought. I apologize if I'm not clear or if I am missing your point.

[Aashrym]

I agree with you regarding the concept of "breach of contract".





It seems pretty clear (from the ragequit Op's perspective) that the cleric joined under false pretenses.

However, you do come across as defending the Op, and I think many of the posters in this thread have a bad taste in their mouth from clericing in a PUG populated by folks like the Op.

That might be it.

To be clear, I'm not defending the OP. I'm speaking to a behavior from that cleric per the 'breach of contract' concept. I can definitely see the point on having had bad experiences with some groups.

[bendover]

I would like to take a moment of silence to remember all the poor little kittens you guys have slaughtered in the making of this thread.
I hope you all think about with every response little fluffy boo boo gets poured into a steaming pan to be eaten. Think about that when you try going to sleep tonight.

/troll off

[PopeJual]

I would like to take a moment of silence to remember all the poor little kittens you guys have slaughtered in the making of this thread.
I hope you all think about with every response little fluffy boo boo gets poured into a steaming pan to be eaten. Think about that when you try going to sleep tonight.

/troll off

I like pie.

[Aranticus]

Bards, that's what I mainly play. Again tho, I'm not sure where we seem to be crossing our wires. It looks like I'm agreeing with what you say and you keep bringing points back up like I'm not agreeing with you.

My point was that if the group asks for a party healer the player should not join the group and then not heal the party. It's pretty straight forward I thought. I apologize if I'm not clear or if I am missing your point.

the point i'm trying to raise is not whether the cleric joined under false pretense or not. its more of if the OP deliberately misrepresented the case. he could claim that the cleric did not heal but the question is how many players really know how many heals they get or who tossed them the heals. i'm sure you have come across that when you as a bard who has been healing the party and instead the cleric gets the compliments

that said, we never know the exact case unless the cleric speaks up

[twizznach]

16 pages talking about healing and all kinds of stuff thats unrelated to the problem at hand. The title is wrong, this isnt about clerics or healing or w/e its about same old problem... Idiots! You invited one and relied on him to be helpfull.

Lol so lesson here is dont invite people you dont know cause you're playing the "idiot rulette" and the lower lvl your party is the greater your chanse of you ending up with one in your party.

Ether dont invite people you dont know or accept the fact that this sort of thing will happen and when it does you should make sure that you give person at fault post traumatic stress disorder that way they'll know better next time. Cheers!

[Aranticus]

16 pages talking about healing and all kinds of stuff thats unrelated to the problem at hand. The title is wrong, this isnt about clerics or healing or w/e its about same old problem... Idiots! You invited one and relied on him to be helpfull.

Lol so lesson here is dont invite people you dont know cause you're playing the "idiot rulette" and the lower lvl your party is the greater your chanse of you ending up with one in your party.

Ether dont invite people you dont know or accept the fact that this sort of thing will happen and when it does you should make sure that you give person at fault post traumatic stress disorder that way they'll know better next time. Cheers!

have you wondered that it could be the other way?

as i'm on my TR project, i solo most of the time but will join 1 or 2 pug groups to relieve the boredom or linearity. lately, i've been on several groups that were started by idiots. of course, being a sorc at L11 means you can easily "rescue the group" from bad situations

[Aashrym]

i'm sure you have come across that when you as a bard who has been healing the party and instead the cleric gets the compliments

That would be a big ol' roger wilco on that one

And I'm following what you're saying better, ty.

[bendover]

I like pie.

What kind?

[chance2000]

I have 2 capped clerics both are healers. Most I group with will say my spot in the group is not wasted. At level 20 any cleric is a battle cleric. My cleric's bio's reads. I will not chase you to heal you. Run alone die alone. My heal spells and wands have limited range. I can't heal stupid. I have numerous characters a level 15 fighter with 512 hp he carries 300 heal pots at all times so he can heal himself. As for those that say they can solo on elite, yes with dungeon scaling its a lot easier, without a full party. Both my clerics run the vale for loot runs. Alone they rule add a few people in a party and I can have a hard time. Yes it sounds as if you found a bad cleric, but so soon into an adventure something is very wrong if you need a lot of healing. Yes battle tactics can make it so an underpowered group can do most anything. Place a meat wall between the bad guys and a wizard. Have the wizard cast firewall they will go after the wizard and can't get past the wall and the cleric just has to keep the wall alive. That is the way we are running epic stuff.

[CaptainCameo]

So many kittens...