DDO and AC?

[twoton]

Is DDO ever going to have ac matter at end game again?

[Quikster]

I dont think it should be required, but a payoff for the huge grind to get big numbers would be nice. I got an idea, maybe they should try inflating mobs hp and giving them blanket immunities

[r3dl4nce]

In epic really you can't get an useful AC.
In shavarath normal if you have 80+ AC you can stay safe.

[twoton]

both of those comments are my whole point. There is no way at end game that you can make a toon that has a ac and actually be worth anything. Sure you can make a toon that has a high enough ac but then all they would be good for is to carry soul stones and thats it.

Why has DDO pushed ac out the window and only left dps builds as are only REAL option?

[r3dl4nce]

Why has DDO pushed ac out the window and only left dps builds as are only REAL option?

Options in DDO end-game:
- crowd control if you hav a very high DC (not against bosses), to be useful you must have more than 38-40 in the DC stat (int for wizard, cha for bards/sorc, wis for cleric/favored)
- DR
- high DPS
- heals

A warforged fighter can get a good DR and a good dps, other melee classes/races are restricted to dps.

[Quikster]

Its not entirely true. AC builds can be viable, they are tricky to get right, and require twice the grind. They arent necessary however in the slightest, so most people dont see a point in making one.

[r3dl4nce]

AC builds can be viable

In epic? And how much intimidate you should have? Because if you have a useful AC for epic, your DPS is nearly 0

[GregorianPL]

i think actually AC can be very important... I have 61 ac with barkskin on my ranger and usually monsters miss me in inspired quaters i wish to get chattering ring and sybiris set ring and belt than i will tr to palladin i should reach about 80 armor class i think that is a lot i dont know does it help on epic but im know 61 is deffinitly not enough for epic quests...and Low AC u cant do solo High AC u are a solo machine.

[twoton]

I remember when the lvl cap was 12 and you had ac builds and stright up dps builds. Now with the ungodly to hit that all the mobs have at end game your ac build has to have around a 80 ac or better and its pointless.

I mean you can forget about it if you dont have the perfectly built party for a ac build i.e. a full ranger, a full pally, a casters for haste and a bard.

Does it not seem kind of stupid that all the mobs at end game content (looking at inspired quarter, amarath, and vale on elite and epics) that all mobs seem to have same to hit as a lvl 20 raging barb?

[r3dl4nce]

Inspired Quarter is not ddo endgame.
Shavarath (elite) and epic is endgame. Go to Shavarath with 61 AC...

[Bacab]

Inspired Quarter is not ddo endgame.
Shavarath (elite) and epic is endgame. Go to Shavarath with 61 AC...

You'll be know as "Soulstone" if you go to Amrath with that.

Gregorian...with your join date...I would guess that you lack the knowledge/gear (as of now) to make a good AC/tank build.
With the statement about having an AC of 61...many will agree with my previous statement.

AC is cool...but really really really hard to pull off.

Sad thing is...many people grind their butts off to make a "good AC tank" and then get it to the point where they are happy. Then they realize they are easily replaced by 2 month old WF Barb in most raids. Kinda sad really.

[r3dl4nce]

You'll be know as "Soulstone" if you go to Amrath with that.

Lol.

Sad thing is...many people grind their butts off to make a "good AC tank" and then get it to the point where they are happy.

Then they go to shavarath elite or worse epic quests and they see the "AC tank" get hit just like every other character. There is no point of grinding/building for AC, it can be sad, but it is so.

[Aalric]

DDO was asked in a recent gamebanshee interview if they were ever going to fix AC so that it mattered again. With a bit of hedging, they basicly said AC wasn't neccesary.

Which to be honest, i find kinda sad

[Bacab]

Then they go to shavarath elite or worse epic quests and they see the "AC tank" get hit just like every other character. There is no point of grinding/building for AC, it can be sad, but it is so.

Exactly.

One thing some "Timmy-tanks" get is DR. And DR is great.

But once again...that brand new level 20 Barb has a static DR of like 7-8? 20 if hes WF.

The other thing is...in Elite Amrath and in Epics...you still have to kill the mobs. Due to glancing blows and cleave...everyone will get hit anyway; so the "healer" is using mass heal/cures anyway. So mine as well have an extra DPS toon rather than "Mr ShieldBlock".

*SIDENOTE*

Anyone ever play the game "Tenchu: Stealth Assassins" on the original Playstation!?

Well I will say this. I have made a level 7ish Exploiter Ranger (whupdeedo) and had a blast running lower level quest like a ninja. Sneaking around and using AC and ranged combat to kill monsters.
*Stormcleave was fun doing this
*Tear of Dhakaan was extremely fun doing this
*TangleRoot
*CO6

Now as fun as this was...I was mainly trying to learn the "sneak" mechanics and how aggro works in regards to distance.
I fully realized that this toon was for *ME* to solo low stuff strictly for fun. I would never bring him into anything else. I do think exploiters can be awesome...I just do not want to devote that kinda time to it.

The problem is this..."Ninja" style play does not work once ya hit the Desert or Gianthold. Monsters have more HP and more "to-hit" making that AC threshold harder to hit.

Then you graduate to vale and then Amrath...the AC is even harder to hit. It turns into a case of too much sacrifice of DPS for diminishing returns on the AC/defense side.

[AbsynthMinded]

The ways Turbine has screwed various game play aspects by krapy design decisions could fill a gaming blog for months.

and has..

[Natashaelle]

Then they go to shavarath elite or worse epic quests and they see the "AC tank" get hit just like every other character. There is no point of grinding/building for AC, it can be sad, but it is so.

It _is_ worth it, but it's a VERY bad idea to build a character around AC only IMO, well not unless you're prepared for all the grinding to get that AC up towards 90+ sustainable.

Very High AC about 80+ does remain perfectly viable however on toons that are more than just tanks, and it *does* make a difference in the endgame, provided it's high enough, as it helps towards survivability. Heck, even about 75 can be worth it, provided you don't have to gimp yourself to get it...

[r3dl4nce]

80 ac in epic is nearly useless

[stoerm]

Honest question from a newbie that's never seen epic: Is it even possible to make AC matter at the top end using the D20 system? I may be wrong, but my impression is lvl20 is pretty much the limit of the D20 system. This would mean epic pushes beyond this limit, with the resulting complaints seen here.

If this is true, then whole OP question is pretty much a rhetorical one, and blaming the limitations of the D20 system on "krapy design decisions" on Turbine's part is a bit disingenuous at best.

If I'm wrong, please suggest how can AC be made relevant at epic.

[Bacab]

Honest question from a newbie that's never seen epic: Is it even possible to make AC matter at the top end using the D20 system? I may be wrong, but my impression is lvl20 is pretty much the limit of the D20 system. This would mean epic pushes beyond this limit, with the resulting complaints seen here.

If this is true, then whole OP question is pretty much a rhetorical one, and blaming the limitations of the D20 system on "krapy design decisions" on Turbine's part is a bit disingenuous at best.

If I'm wrong, please suggest how can AC be made relevant at epic.

That (the d20) is why AC does not matter.

You *can* reach an AC of like 115ish. Because of this they had to make monster be able to hit that.

So for a monster to hit a 115 on rolls other than a "20"...they have to have a to have a "to hit" of 96 or better...

Soooo your AC of 80...is once again "miss on only 1's". Only thing is...thats not true either.

SO they added glancing blows...aka...you get hit...even when you *DONT* get hit.

[grodon9999]

In epic really you can't get an useful AC.

You don't need AC in epics because the mobs don't hit back with the modern easy-buttons available to us.

In shavarath normal if you have 80+ AC you can stay safe.

60ish on normal stops most incoming damage from the Orthons and tieflings. When I'm soloing I'm at 67ish with power-attack on and get missed enough that my CSW spell can top me off. 80 is almost un-hittable by trash on Elite, combine that with blur and a Cleric's Holy Aura and you can almost zerg through stuff.

80 ac in epic is nearly useless

Agreed, we tested this once with me at 80 and I got hit enough that the few misses could have been the mobs rolling 1s. After about a minute or two of testing we got bored, hit mass-hold, and heavy-picked the **** out of our lab-rats.

I've heard reports from people that 85ish makes you un-hittable to epic- trash but I simply don't believe it. The again, you simply don't need AC in epics as most of the time the mobs are only slightly more dangerous that the dummy on your airship.