Sorcerer or Wizard?

[Nieche]

Well I'm just about finished on collecting epic tokens, making greensteel & other items, so before I make the cha+ weapon and TR I want to ask, is it worth staying a sorceror?

Half your spells miss (on epic I won't even mention), making your high mana pool useless, wizards get all arcane buffs and spells and they are likely to hit their targets. I tried using items for penetration but it just isn't the same.

Which do you prefer and why would you TR into a sorceror or wizard?

[soulaeon]

Half your spells miss (on epic I won't even mention), making your high mana pool useless, wizards get all arcane buffs and spells and they are likely to hit their targets. I tried using items for penetration but it just isn't the same.

Spell penetration is easy to get, and I do fine with +5-7 penetration. Have not done epic content yet, but I imagine that wizards have the same problem.
Same goes for DC. That's the problem with both classes, and the player has to plan what they want to do well. Both classes also have access to damage spells that dont need a DC to hit.
At the level you mention, both classes dont need lots of different spells, which you say wizards have. Which makes the wizards pretty redundant, does it not?
One of the main differences, is that sorcerers do not need to be as efficient with their spell points because there's more there. A lot of sorcerers have the same buffs, but most dont get all of them.

[Kriogen]

The difference between Sorc or Wiz is very small. It has more to do with style then power.

For TR: Past Life:Wizard is very sweet. But you have Sorc now. Tho Past Life:Sorc is also nice.

I prefere Wizards. More feats, more multiclass friendly and more WF friendly. I like self-healing (WF, repair) and versatile builds (MC).

But this has nothing to do with spell slots. Most spells on my wizard are never used.

The only way *you* can decide (sorc or wiz) is to try it your self.

[Crystalizer]

i think that wizards are harder to play but also give you more options : in general when you play a sorcerer you select the "best" spells currently in game for the quests you have the most. with a wizard you can adapt to groups preferences/needs, with spells you have more options, but the cool down generally requires from you to ever have 2 spells per opponent and you cast one while the cool down of the other vanishes. so with a wizard, fast adaptation and a very strong game knowledge you should be quite better than with a sorcerer. but sorcerers are definitively more fun to play, they are easier, faster, and you wont burnout while playing. still from time to time with my sorcerer i was useless during some quests sequences cuz none of my spells was that useful.

[Carpone]

The passive and active wizard past life feats are worth having regardless if you decide on sorcerer or wizard as your final build.

[testing1234]

why not do a TR into wizard and see from actual playing what you like best.
if u dont like it u can TR back into sorc and have the wizard past life feat

[FlyingTurtle]

Well I'm just about finished on collecting epic tokens, making greensteel & other items, so before I make the cha+ weapon and TR I want to ask, is it worth staying a sorceror?

Half your spells miss (on epic I won't even mention), making your high mana pool useless, wizards get all arcane buffs and spells and they are likely to hit their targets. I tried using items for penetration but it just isn't the same.

Which do you prefer and why would you TR into a sorceror or wizard?

I don't see the point TRing into the same class to be honest. Why not try something else just for a change, and get access to a different active past life feat for your third life. The Wizard active past life (+1 DC, all spells) kicks the butt of the Sorc active past life (mental toughness with sprinkles, big woop).

Instead of taking the big TR plunge, you should roll a wizard and play it to level 6 (target for the 100 Favor level to get 25TP just for funsies - if you have first time TP rewards still not unlocked on other servers, even better). I've read some sorc players complain that they find the slow casting of a wiz unacceptable after too long playing a sorc.

[Majere_Aumar]

Which do you prefer and why would you TR into a sorceror or wizard?

I don’t think 1 TR is enough to get a real benefit from TR’ing from sorc. Having TR’d from sorc to wizard, I really think you need to TR a second time to get decent power boost.

Ask yourself if you are prepared to do 3 or 4 times more XP grinding than you’ve done so far to make your character a lot better.

Also I would recommend NOT doing sorc after your second TR. To take both the wizard and sorc past life feats, you would have to sacrifice other, more important feats as a sorc (although it may work if you usually take mental toughness as a sorc).

Sorc/Wiz/Wiz is a good option though or Sorc/Wiz/2Rog+18Wiz.

Of course, everything might change when a Sorc prestige class comes along.

[Madryoch]

There are significant differences between the two classes.Wizard is slower a caster, has double or higher spell cooldowns than a sorcerer, has less sp and will never reach the damage a fully damage specced sorcerer is dealing.

On the other hand when it comes down to spell cost (lower for wizards) , variety of spells and ofc WAY higher dcs than a sorc , wizard is better. The reason is simple. When u play a sorc either u get all the metamagic feats required,(maximize,extend,empower,heighten) either spell penetration, or DC feats and ofc u need 1 toughness feat for more hp so u won't die from 1 hit in epics(22 from toughness feat and 20 extra from enhancements). Unfortunately as sorcerer u can only have 7 feats unless u are a human which would take u to 8.As wizard on the other hand u get 5 extra bonus feats compared to sorc allowing u specialization in 2 schools 1 extra feat (spell penetration ?) and also wizards get prestige enhancements that further increase their DC.Heck they can even take improved mental toughness with that many feats.Also Wizard capstone adds +2 to their primary ability score adding +1 to DC and reducing the sp cost for all metamagics by one . (heighten 1 per lvl)

In decent gear it is undoubtely better (at least in my eyes) playing a wizard...

My past life has been wizard and my current is sorcerer but i intend to respec to wizard after seeing that damage means nothing... In epic quests or raids if u go all out damagewise after 1-2 encounters ur sp pool is depleted and i say that when my character has 3k sp.

However i am really waiting to see the prestige classes for sorcerers when we get to see them ... cause sorcerers are not as powerful as they should be atm cause they have no PrE.

Rilynrae of the Eclipse

Attuned to the plane of Risia and proud owner of her garden ... The Orchard.

P.S. Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

[Legendary_Agent]

do not make a sorcerer it has absolutely nothing to do with a wizard, all that a sorcerer does is spam more with fewer spells, has also a bit more mana but thats it, a wizard have 5 extra feats which can increase ur spell DC, has wonderfull prestige enhacements while sorcerer has none, u can increase the DC of ur spell alot more than a sorcerer can dream off, u cant change spells in a tavern like a wizard aswell, all u can do is change 1 spell per 3 days which also takes alot of money.

Go with a wizard ull enjoy it much more than a sorcerer, there will be many ppl here telling me how wrong i am and what not, the fact is i got a fully leveled 20 sorcerer and i regret having it instead of a wizard even more now that update 7 gave wizards archmage prestige class.

fact is sorcerer DC is alot lower than a wizard because it has no prestige enhacements and 5 less feats to choose, there are level 4, 7, 8, 9 spells that are to usefull to just limit urself to only 3 slots (level 6 7 8 9 spells) and 4 slots (level 1 2 3 4 5 spells)

on top of that not all spells cast faster on a sorcerer, infact some cast as slow as a wizard, one of those is scorching ray (which actually casts faster on a wizard), do not fall for the mistake of thinking that there are plenty of good no DC spells out there, there are to many DC spells that are alot more usefull.

A sorcerer is only ok for evocation, anything else is a waste.

[elricken]

Neither!

Roll and int based horc barbarian with 2 levels of monk for ac!

Also be sure to pick up UMD so you can use firewall scrolls

[SavvyGabby]

Is it possible to mix the 2 with a mixtures of Sorc/wiz build for the fast casting of the sorc but more selections off the wiz?

[Thrudh]

Is it possible to mix the 2 with a mixtures of Sorc/wiz build for the fast casting of the sorc but more selections off the wiz?

No.

[SavvyGabby]

No.

aww that sucks lol

[Jaid314]

at least, not effectively. you *could* go 10 sorc/10 wiz, in which case you would be almost as useful to bring along in a level 20 quest as individual level 10 characters. almost. (the two level 10s would be more useful because they'd have separate actions, whereas you'd come close because you'd have higher hit points, saves, and potentially access to better gear).

that said, there is something else you would have in common with those pair of level 10 characters... you would both be about as likely to be invited to a level 20 quest/raid as each other. and that chance would not be a high one.

[soulaeon]

Okay, after more epics, I can comment.
The whole more spells thing is ****. All casters basically use the same spells in epics. So, being a wizard with more spells is a terrible reason to choose being a wizard.
I may TR into a wizard then back to sorcerer, and that should effectively close any gaps as far as spell effectiveness.
Sorcerers have more SP and cast faster. This makes them more suitable for some situations, while wizards could be more suitable in others. Being as epic content basically homogenizes arcane casters, there's little reason to compare.

[shagath]

Sorcerers have more SP and cast faster.

You talk about epics, lets talk about epics. More sp & lower DCs vs Less sp & higher DCs. Both do pretty much same work but the one with higher DCs don't need to try so hard. Both cast fast because quicken is needed in epics so it's almost instant casting for both.

I hate how this game forces you to pick toughness and quicken. That means sorcerer can use even less feats for his build plan.

[soulaeon]

Quicken = yucky. Never bothered.
The feat and DC problems looks like it can solved itself if one has wizard past lives. It seems like a combination of either past lives is best for whichever the final arcane incarnation may be.

[Jaid314]

You talk about epics, lets talk about epics. More sp & lower DCs vs Less sp & higher DCs. Both do pretty much same work but the one with higher DCs don't need to try so hard. Both cast fast because quicken is needed in epics so it's almost instant casting for both.

I hate how this game forces you to pick toughness and quicken. That means sorcerer can use even less feats for his build plan.

quicken is not really needed for a sorcerer, ime. not even in epics.

also, there isn't as big of a difference in wizard DCs and sorcerer DCs as most people seem to be ranting about. archmage grants 2 points of DC in a single school, and 1 DC in a second school. pale master grants 3 DC to a single school (which sorcerers can easily get high enough DCs for anywhere that matters anyways) and 1 DC to every school. the wizard class itself grants a further 1 point, making it 2 points of DC difference as compared to a pale master (provided they drink yugoloth potions) and 2 points of DC difference as compared to an archmage (provided they don't drink a yugoloth potion, which AFAICT most don't). with the right gear and feats, the sorcerer will have DCs that are good enough*, shorter spell cooldowns, and more spell points.

* good enough, at this point, is (no ship buffs) 36 in all schools, 37 in enchantment and evocation (past life). once i get a greater enchantment focus item, it will be DC 38 enchantment. once i get a cleansed HP item from shroud, it will be 39 enchantment (feat swap toughness out, i'll have enough hit points anyways). if i can pick up some combination of two from a +7 charisma item, litany, or a +4 charisma tome, that will be 40. could it be higher? sure. but it's good enough to be rather powerful now, and i see no reason not to expect it to get even more powerful in the near future.

[kaelis]

You talk about epics, lets talk about epics. More sp & lower DCs vs Less sp & higher DCs. Both do pretty much same work but the one with higher DCs don't need to try so hard. Both cast fast because quicken is needed in epics so it's almost instant casting for both.

I hate how this game forces you to pick toughness and quicken. That means sorcerer can use even less feats for his build plan.

Bunny hop is, still, the sorcerers quicken spell feat.