BUG: Acrobat Alacrity Not Applying

[The_Phenx]

So, hold down the mouse button instead of clicking like a madman. The fact that you're even getting extra attacks by hammering the button smacks of an exploit to me.

No your getting the proper number of attacks by clicking. The slight increase you see in attack rates on the live server is caused by removing the slight pause before auto-attack starts when you click and hold the mouse button.

So there is no problem on the live server.

On Lamania using one method of attacking over the other is a huge difference, and a huge problem.

[bradleyforrest]

No your getting the proper number of attacks by clicking. The slight increase you see in attack rates on the live server is caused by removing the slight pause before auto-attack starts when you click and hold the mouse button.

So there is no problem on the live server.

On Lamania using one method of attacking over the other is a huge difference, and a huge problem.

From what you're saying, there's a difference on live as well, just the other way around. It sounds to me that you're attacking faster by clicking on the live server than if you activated auto-attack or just held the mouse button.

If the game is designed to give you x attacks per minute while either using auto-attack or holding the attack button, then doing anything to defeat that limitation is the definition of an exploit. Just because something has been used for a very long time and it hasn't been corrected does not make it not an exploit.

[Dungnmaster001]

Given that the click and hold wasn't around in the beginning, I'd say that the game was designed for clicking to attack. So it wouldn't be an exploit.

[bradleyforrest]

Given that the click and hold wasn't around in the beginning, I'd say that the game was designed for clicking to attack. So it wouldn't be an exploit.

If that's the case, then I stand corrected.

[IronClan]

The issue was quite a bit more significant than what you took away from it.

It was between 10-22 swings a minute for a mele, NOT 2, and not just kopesh weilders, every toon swinging a weapon in game, when using clicking to attack as opposed to auto-attacking.

The VERY significant issue which would effect the entire game is a blanket 10-20% alacrity loss, and that is what caused them to pull the repeater fix.

Please read all the data and understand it before you start throwing tomatoes.

So you're saying the loss of swings is only or mostly only effecting rapid clickers?
Um... Okay in that case please put the fix back in and put the loss of alacrity on a known issue list. Because I can't imagine repeater builds/mechanic rogues don't out number rapid clickers by at least 100 to 1... and that's acounting for the fact the repeater builds are a small subset.

As for reading all the data one of the posters found a 2 swing difference...One found a bigger difference apparently by clicking their mouse button for every swing.

The people who care most about losing a couple swings are by in large min/max Khopesh users or a small subset of other "optimal" DPS weapons.

That many players would actually click their mouse button for every single swing rapid fire like seems extremely doubtful.

[Phax]

But...the repeater fix is working on Lamannia right now. Why does the fix go away because of this? And ranged is already far worse off than melee.

I was 100% expecting this post. However, I had significantly underestimated the number of frowny faces.

The repeater fix did in fact work quite well, however, due to the differences in the way repeaters and melee work, part of the fix that was beneficial to the repeaters broke melee.

I'm pretty confident that I can come up with a solution for repeaters that will not adversely affect melee for the next planned patch after U7 launch.

[NeutronStar]

Very depressed concerning the backing out of the repeater bug fix.


EDIT: Thanks Phax, that makes me feel somewhat better.

[Steiner-Davion]

That many players would actually click their mouse button for every single swing rapid fire like seems extremely doubtful.

Just goes to show you how much you think you know ,and in fact do not know.

When the game first launched and until very recently, you either had auto-attack, or you had to click for every attack. As a player of 4 1/2 almost 5 years now, I still find myself click for every attack/swing I make. It is simple muscle memory, nothing more. I learned to play the game that way, as did my body/muscles, and it will take a long time to reprogram my memory and muscles that clicking for every attack is no longer required.

[Steiner-Davion]

I was 100% expecting this post. However, I had significantly underestimated the number of frowny faces.

The repeater fix did in fact work quite well, however, due to the differences in the way repeaters and melee work, part of the fix that was beneficial to the repeaters broke melee.

I'm pretty confident that I can come up with a solution for repeaters that will not adversely affect melee for the next planned patch after U7 launch.

By "next planned patch" are we talking mid update fixes, or U8?

[Phax]

By "next planned patch" are we talking mid update fixes, or U8?

We're talking about a mid-update patch.

[Coldin]

I was 100% expecting this post. However, I had significantly underestimated the number of frowny faces.

The repeater fix did in fact work quite well, however, due to the differences in the way repeaters and melee work, part of the fix that was beneficial to the repeaters broke melee.

I'm pretty confident that I can come up with a solution for repeaters that will not adversely affect melee for the next planned patch after U7 launch.

I didn't have any sadder smiley faces to use.

I'm still pretty disappointed since it was one of my most look forward to things in Update 7. It's good to hear that you think you can solve it pretty quickly though. I just hope we won't have to wait too long to see it fixed for good.

In the meantime...

[kernal42]

Just goes to show you how much you think you know ,and in fact do not know.

When the game first launched and until very recently, you either had auto-attack, or you had to click for every attack. As a player of 4 1/2 almost 5 years now, I still find myself click for every attack/swing I make. It is simple muscle memory, nothing more. I learned to play the game that way, as did my body/muscles, and it will take a long time to reprogram my memory and muscles that clicking for every attack is no longer required.

I used to click constantly for attacks, until I broke a few mice. Click & hold seems like a good comprimise.

Cheers,
Kernal

[The_Phenx]

So you're saying the loss of swings is only or mostly only effecting rapid clickers?
Um... Okay in that case please put the fix back in and put the loss of alacrity on a known issue list. Because I can't imagine repeater builds/mechanic rogues don't out number rapid clickers by at least 100 to 1... and that's acounting for the fact the repeater builds are a small subset.

As for reading all the data one of the posters found a 2 swing difference...One found a bigger difference apparently by clicking their mouse button for every swing.

The people who care most about losing a couple swings are by in large min/max Khopesh users or a small subset of other "optimal" DPS weapons.

That many players would actually click their mouse button for every single swing rapid fire like seems extremely doubtful.

SO my thief acrobat who uses quarterstaves is a min/max kopesh build?

In my testing on Lamania, The largest difference I found was in Acrobats with almost a 20% loss, My Kopesh Kensai was around 10% loss.

And the press and hold to attack, as already stated was a late addition to the game, it was designed around clicking.

A 10-20% loss is not a couple swings. Especially when its party wide.

I realize your upset, I am trying to be as polite as possible, yes I hope it gets fixed as soon as possible, but breaking the whole combat system for 1 fix doesn't make sense.

[vVAnjilaVv]

I'm sorry if this comes off as being uncivil, but seriously Turbine, stop trying to one up every MMO on the market with a bazillion new features that not even your own developers can keep up with, slow down, and make a quality game.

Your game is absolutely the best.....I will give you that no problem, but it's too much for even the people who make it to maintain...this is blatantly obvious and cannot be refuted by anyone unless they are completely blind.

There is a honor and pride in trying really hard.....but nothing but annoyance and problems in cases where people try TOO HARD.

[The_Phenx]

From what you're saying, there's a difference on live as well, just the other way around. It sounds to me that you're attacking faster by clicking on the live server than if you activated auto-attack or just held the mouse button.

If the game is designed to give you x attacks per minute while either using auto-attack or holding the attack button, then doing anything to defeat that limitation is the definition of an exploit. Just because something has been used for a very long time and it hasn't been corrected does not make it not an exploit.

Nope. Your still not quite understanding.

You attack at the same rate on live no matter what the method.

You do see a slight initial increase in number of attacks (not the speed), by clicking as opposed to press and hold. The difference as I sated before is because as you click and attack it is immediate as opposed to press and hold which has a slight initial pause due to the game taking second to start auto attacking,.

That is what is reflected in my data about the attack rates on LIVE.

Lamania was a totally different story.

[Missing_Minds]

because of 2 swings per minute? Granted the repeater bug is just as trivial....

Obviously someone who's never shot anything at range in their play time here.

How about in the time you get to swing 4 times, you only ever swing once. Maybe twice if you are lucky.

[Steiner-Davion]

We're talking about a mid-update patch.

THANK YOU for the quick reply. Much welcomed news, considering the recent bad news in this thread.

[Steiner-Davion]

I used to click constantly for attacks, until I broke a few mice. Click & hold seems like a good comprimise.

Cheers,
Kernal

Probably one of the reasons, why the made the change.

I know that occassionally my hand would start to cramp from clicking so much.

[Coldin]

Probably one of the reasons, why the made the change.

I know that occassionally my hand would start to cramp from clicking so much.

Oh yeah. I remember going into the first few shrouds, and beating on portals. Click and hold to attack was such a nice change.

[Glenalth]

Oh yeah. I remember going into the first few shrouds, and beating on portals. Click and hold to attack was such a nice change.

It also reduced the number of late-night complaints from sleeping SOs.