Ac is out HP is in?

[vyvy3369]

From personal experience I'd disagree with that statement a little. My high AC toon has seen 87ac before and has rarely needed to stay that high. Being able to get an AC into the 80s has been good enough.

This is still assuming we're talking about AC and not music.

Heh, unless someone stole my quote as their own, that was me (I think talking to Quis way back), and it was specific to SD vs Kensei.

The reasoning is that by switching stances / gear / etc. you can raise your AC by well over 20 points as needed as a SD (5 CE, 6 shield vs. shield wand, 5 blocking, 4+ armor boost for example). By having the ability to raid buff into the 90s, you thus have the ability to be into the 70s in DPS mode. That way you can tank anything on normal in full DPS mode, and slowly trade DPS for AC as needed for harder difficulties or when buffs are sparse.

If all someone cares about is normal, then sure, probably any decently geared SD could "tank" ToD normal or whatever, but being able to switch as needed is really the only thing SD has going for it - a well-geared Kensei would probably be a better tank than a poorly geared SD. I think that was also around the time when I ran a Shroud with no less than FOUR people intimidating and blocking Harry, so I was a little frustrated with SDs wearing shields all the time and boasting about a 60 AC in defensive mode :P

Edit: and to get slightly back on topic, I remember the days when 200 HPs meant you were pretty much invulnerable - you could run into a pack of beholders and have enough HPs to survive a failed disintegrate. Good old Invaders before they screwed up Enervate...

[bendover]

Displacement is my best AC.

Also, what's a shield? Do I put at at the end of my Greataxe to make it swing harder?

Displacement is for the weak! I say let them hit you. It's much more fun getting hit

[Seamonkeysix]

[Therigar]

I don't know how it is on Sarlona but on Ghallanda, Cannith and Orien it is HP unless you can have ~70 AC @ L16 (including party buffs, so standing/self-buffed ~62). It has been that way for 18 months or more on Ghallanda and just carried over to Cannith and Orien as they went live.

AC is a fools errand for most players -- especially new players who will not have the gear needed to get to 70+. The latest end game content and epic makes even that seem like paper.

It absolutely is all about DPS, HP and DR right now.

[Benjai]

..

[Bacab]

No it's not, going "full ******" is a fool's errand. But remember the lessons learned in Tropic Thunder, you never go Full ******. Full ****** is aiming for an un-achievable AC for areas that you don't need AC anyway (Epic).



Finesses build = bad idea 99% of the time (that freak who solo'd VoD and a few other fit that 1%). You do not have to be a finesse build to get usable AC where AC still works. More on that in a second . . .

You're right about HP though, going from 400-500 HP on my evasion mook's made a world of difference in those situations where you have tot take a hit.



There's two kinds of high-level monsters, epic and non-epic. Lets go with Elite Amrath which actually harder than any epic I've seen. The big difference between Epic and non epic-trash is non-epic trash actually fights back. In epic everything has such **** saves that they are either stunned or held and we pound on them when senseless. When they aren't helpless, they swing VERY SLLLLOOOOOOWWWWLLLLYYY so you'll either have time to get out of the way or heal yourself before they swing again. AC in epic simply isn't needed because we have other exploits (yes, I said it) to mitigate the incoming damage. Non-epic content it's still useful which is what 95% of the player play.




Keep in mind, epics are only played by 5% of the population. The "real" endgame of DDO is TR-grinding and it that the Dex build would be fine.

Junk, you seriously represent one of the few Rangers who "get it". I generally avoid ROG and RNG that I do not know.

Why is our server chock full of broken garbage builds?

Though one thing...you tend to play "Exploiters". So you have 2WF Defense and stuff like that. Also high enough INT (you like your skill points)for CE.

I can not tell you how many Stalwart Defenders I have run into that dump INT and lack CE. They also lack a DPS option...since they are "only tanks".

Or they play a class like PLD or MNK which tends to have to dump INT since they are spread super thin.

No lie...I had a failed Part 2 of the shroud last week...with 4 "Shield Blocking" Fighters...

I had a similar experience as another poster in here...had a shroud with like 3-5 "Shield Blocking" toons in a shroud.

I won't name names but there is a Bard running around that has a really high intim...but no AC or DR...and just get spanked. He is a Manasponge. No lie...I was in a ToD...where this "Shield Blocking" Bard and 2 Fighters where argueing on who had less DPS (like its a good thing to dump STR). Well...we ended up wiping at part 1...(I don't drink SP pots for that part...if we can't kill the Jailer and the Judge...I really don't wanna do Nytheros or Horoth with that group...).

AC and Intimitanks *CAN* be great. Its just a painful process to acquire all that gear.

Also tanks...please have a "DPS Option".

And about epics...I have soloed a few raids (DQ on Elite, Reaver Elite, VoD)...so I understand what I am talking about.

Grodon is right...Elite Amrath is wayyyyy harder than almost all Epics. Elite Bastion was the *HARDEST* quest I have ever done. Perfect group...
Me on FVS
A great BRD
A great Arcane (Enchantment Focused)
A Barb with Epic gear to include ESoS
A Extremely Geared Ranger (Exploiter)
A Extremely Geared MNK

Even with all that...the last fight was freaking brutal. It was harder than EDQ. I am not exagerating.

[The_Great_Samulas]

AC is still quite relevant. My AC tank can hit 85 and still hate tank with some of the highest DPS in the game. Or he can intimitank, if I want to sacrifice DPS, to make it easy on the healers for awhile. Getting geared is no joke though, and requires a commitment. But that's what an MMO is about, finding something to go after while you hang out with friends right? Its all how you want to spend your time.

Also tanks...please have a "DPS Option".

And about epics...I have soloed a few raids (DQ on Elite, Reaver Elite, VoD)...so I understand what I am talking about.

Grodon is right...Elite Amrath is wayyyyy harder than almost all Epics. Elite Bastion was the *HARDEST* quest I have ever done. Perfect group...
Me on FVS
A great BRD
A great Arcane (Enchantment Focused)
A Barb with Epic gear to include ESoS
A Extremely Geared Ranger (Exploiter)
A Extremely Geared MNK

Even with all that...the last fight was freaking brutal. It was harder than EDQ. I am not exagerating.

I agree completely with having a DPS option. One side to gearing out an AC tank is the AC side, too many forget you have to gear out for DPS as well. This is the real secret as far as the gear grind for an AC toon. You have all the grind for DPS, THEN you stack all the grind for AC on top of it. In the end, you have an extremely potent toon. Way more fun to play, in my opinion, than a DPS toon (I have one of those too).

The reason why it was so hard is you didn't have an optimal group for that quest. A balanced group is not an optimal group for all quests. It is only a good group for dealing with most obstacles. The end fight in Bastion is like epic DQ, a similar strategy works very well. Your group is not optimized for either intimitanking or ranged DPS. I have found intimitanking in that fight to be the best (too many trash mobs) and it is very easy with that method. As with all quests, the right strategy makes it easy; try to fit a square peg into a round hole and you can have problems. The same is true with epics. However the HP of mobs makes them harder, in my opinion, compared to elite Amarath.

[efreet5]

No lie...I had a failed Part 2 of the shroud last week...with 4 "Shield Blocking" Fighters...

I had a similar experience as another poster in here...had a shroud with like 3-5 "Shield Blocking" toons in a shroud.

No lie, I ran a shroud about a week ago with 4 friggin people shield blocking in part 4 and ALL 4 were intimidating at the same time...When I told them that swinging their weapons and killing the boss faster would save the cleric more sps than having them continue this I became the party moron. Yep. 4 people simultaneously intimidating him and I was the idiot in this group...Seriously, I think we should take timmy out back and put the old boy down.

[h4x0r1f1c]

~~~Xflash~~~

Hey I know you. I showed you how to get on that waterfall in the harbor when I was going for the lighthouse.

[h4x0r1f1c]

HP=Good.

Unlike AC, every character can get decent, survivable HP- just tonight, my capped Cleric topped out at 529, unbuffed.



If a Cleric can do it, so can you.

Another funny SS from a recent Tempest's Spine, where the group was discussing who was going to "tank" Sor'jek based on who had the most HP...



I had the highest HP in the entire group... on my BARD.

Not sure exactly what side the OP is on, but I reiterate: HP = GOOD.

My sorcerer has 541 HP completely unbuffed.

[Ashiel_Dragmire]

As a person currently working on an AC build, what are some key items to have in order to maintain a workable AC without otherwise gimping the toon?

[Quikster]

As a person currently working on an AC build, what are some key items to have in order to maintain a workable AC without otherwise gimping the toon?

That kinda depends on the build.

[CaptainCameo]

I've been focusing my fighter build around hp, dr and dps. It's working out pretty well. I soloed the bloody crypt, tear, stormcleave outpost and redwillows ruins before level 6.

Yeah, when you have dr, you don't really need ac. It's one of those things now that's just "nice to have."

[BlackPlague]

I've been focusing my fighter build around hp, dr and dps. It's working out pretty well. I soloed the bloody crypt, tear, stormcleave outpost and redwillows ruins before level 6.

Yeah, when you have dr, you don't really need ac. It's one of those things now that's just "nice to have."

Sounds great man. I'm glad you're enjoying your toon. Just be careful as you hit higher content. Soloing will become a little tougher, but with the right strategies I'm sure you'll do great.

[Waukeen]

Dump it all unless you can get crazy high AC, or enough to mitigate with an intimitank + DR

HP + healing amp = win

[JDCrowell]

Junk, you seriously represent one of the few Rangers who "get it". I generally avoid ROG and RNG that I do not know.

Why is our server chock full of broken garbage builds?

Though one thing...you tend to play "Exploiters". So you have 2WF Defense and stuff like that. Also high enough INT (you like your skill points)for CE.

I can not tell you how many Stalwart Defenders I have run into that dump INT and lack CE. They also lack a DPS option...since they are "only tanks".

Or they play a class like PLD or MNK which tends to have to dump INT since they are spread super thin.

No lie...I had a failed Part 2 of the shroud last week...with 4 "Shield Blocking" Fighters...

I had a similar experience as another poster in here...had a shroud with like 3-5 "Shield Blocking" toons in a shroud.

I won't name names but there is a Bard running around that has a really high intim...but no AC or DR...and just get spanked. He is a Manasponge. No lie...I was in a ToD...where this "Shield Blocking" Bard and 2 Fighters where argueing on who had less DPS (like its a good thing to dump STR). Well...we ended up wiping at part 1...(I don't drink SP pots for that part...if we can't kill the Jailer and the Judge...I really don't wanna do Nytheros or Horoth with that group...).

AC and Intimitanks *CAN* be great. Its just a painful process to acquire all that gear.

Also tanks...please have a "DPS Option".

And about epics...I have soloed a few raids (DQ on Elite, Reaver Elite, VoD)...so I understand what I am talking about.

Grodon is right...Elite Amrath is wayyyyy harder than almost all Epics. Elite Bastion was the *HARDEST* quest I have ever done. Perfect group...
Me on FVS
A great BRD
A great Arcane (Enchantment Focused)
A Barb with Epic gear to include ESoS
A Extremely Geared Ranger (Exploiter)
A Extremely Geared MNK

Even with all that...the last fight was freaking brutal. It was harder than EDQ. I am not exagerating.

This is why I tend to always stay in DPS mode with my Exploiter until I get all my gear. Only took me 5 runs to get my Icy, but it's taking forever to get my Chattering Ring. Getting close to my first GS item and weapon now that I have planned out exactly what I want. Until then, I'll always be in PA mode with items that give me the most HP and the most damage.

[gfunk]

Most builds can have somewhat of an option for either... I mean, even a kensai can situationaly buff up well into the 70's, if you really want (with twf or thf). Generally though, I think HP are prefered, because mass healing must keep pace with the lowest common denominator (i.e. most easily damaged character). All that AC doesn't do you any good when heals are coming in to keep up with the damage that the frenzy barb next to you is taking. I would say that AC is situational (as is sort of already stated in this thread). Its not such a bad thing to have a build where you are striving for AC.. its just bad if you don't know where/when to use it (kinda like ranging.. ranging should never be fulltime.. it should be used just in the right situations).

Aside to thread:
AC can be a fun balancing act too.. I was experimenting with my healing amp kensai twf fighter (~240% amp), and a chaosblade and found that with CE on, I could walk through a genesis point on solo/casual with virtually no healing other than what the chaosblade provided. Drop CE, and I would start having to drink pots at a greatly increased rate. So the choice is: use the pots and burn through the quest faster with PA on, or take a bit longer and don't use any resources. Obviously, you would need more AC in a group (due to scaling,) so the need for AC in a build may largely depend on how much propotion of soloing vs grouping you plan on doing.

(on solo/normal the chaosblade healing method wasn't enough healing.. I would have needed either higher AC, or maybe get duel chaosblades while moving the 30% amp to those new gloves you can get it on instead of having to weild a triple pos in the offhand). A 30% item is critical to a healing amp build, as healing amp doesn't round up (and the 30% is needed to get to 200%, where you start doubling your healing ticks).

Oh, and welcome back the the game Sunflash.

[BlackPlague]

Thanks man. It's great to be back, still getting into the swing of things, like what's worth what now for tradzeezs

[hecate355]

isnt this kind of discussions already been done to death?, ac-no ac/dps-survivability, ability to solo/option to be great asset to group, blasting/crowd controlling...etc

as long as you have incorporated at least some of those possible benefits you can be useful to group with, essentially its all about damage mitigation, whether its done one or other above mentioned way it doesent matter, and those few i named arent only solutions. Some people are asset to group even only cause of knowing their character limits and quest design well, others by being skilled gearing their characters, making compromises and balancing things.

[Quikster]

I've been focusing my fighter build around hp, dr and dps. It's working out pretty well. I soloed the bloody crypt, tear, stormcleave outpost and redwillows ruins before level 6.

Yeah, when you have dr, you don't really need ac. It's one of those things now that's just "nice to have."

Honestly you dont need either ac or dr. Or you can use both. So long as you have a viable option to deal damage, it really isnt that big of a deal either way.


So about your build. Testing it out solo isnt really giving you much information. The next step is to fill the party and test it out, see how you hold up. Then do it elite, when its scaled all the way up, then with a full party on elite. If you pass all these tests, and you think your build is teh shiznet, ask that full party to stop standing at the entrance and help you complete the quest. This, is the ultimate test. If your build can still perform on max dungeon scaling with a bunch of pile-trying to hold you back