Pali hate

[westudi]

I was just denied admittance to a PUG run by someone I had ran with before, because I was a paladin. I asked him why, and he responded, "do you ever wonder why you die alot?"

I laughed, informed him that I was a TR, and that the build (I went with the first one) had thus far proven to be fairly resilient (I'm nearly at level 13). He responded with an apparently sarcastic, "sure."

In all honesty, I think I have only died about five times with this toon since TR, and that was due to playing a tad recklessly. With the gear this toon has, he can pretty much buff himself with just about everything he needs, can get out of any trouble he gets in, and still do a substantial amount of damage.

So, what gives? Why the hate? I would say check myddo for analysis, but it still shows my past life.

The funny thing is, it looks like he might be going for completionist. I wonder how he will cope with having to play such a gimped class.

[EyeRekon]

As one who doesn't understand Paladin strengths/weaknesses I can also attest to a general Pally hate. The sense I get is they are rather unspectacular in every way. Its a warrior type that some don't appear to really consider DPS. It may be a consequence of the usefulness of the prestige and enhancement lines.

With my own casual, non-empiracle observations. The fewer Pallys in a raid (replaced by pretty much anything else) the better the party performance.

Are they considered solo-ish and don't contribute as much to a party? I don't know.

I may be entirely off-base but am trying to relate.

[NaturalHazard]

you got LOH right? that makes you more survivable than those uber fighters and barbs? you can heal yourself right? dont need a nanny bot to hold your hand 24/7?

[Freeman]

I was just denied admittance to a PUG run by someone I had ran with before, because I was a paladin. I asked him why, and he responded, "do you ever wonder why you die alot?"

I'm confused. Were you denied because you were a paladin, or because you'd run with the person before and died too much? From what you wrote, it sounds more like the leader had a problem with the player, not the class.

[elujin]

what a noob at pally hating evry one knows you need to "say omg pallys have low dps lol !!1! my barbs dps is mutch more leet lol "



saying pallys don't have what it takes to survive with buffs and self heals is just stupid .

[Coldest]

In all honesty, I think I have only died about five times with this toon since TR, and that was due to playing a tad recklessly.

If you want to know for sure just /death count to find out. Im betting you've perished more than you think you have.

As far as Pali hate, you can thank Junts for this.

[westudi]

I'm confused. Were you denied because you were a paladin, or because you'd run with the person before and died too much? From what you wrote, it sounds more like the leader had a problem with the player, not the class.

No, he specifically said he was denying me based on class. I've played with him using other toons, and not frequently at that. I doubt he "remembers" me in any way.

[Khroc]

No, he specifically said he was denying me based on class. I've played with him using other toons, and not frequently at that. I doubt he "remembers" me in any way.

Then he is a noob. The game has vets and new players and a good % of the new players just don't get it yet. Hopefully someday they will. I was told in a shroud run last week that my barb takes too much damage. This was after I informed the party that I had only a 17 AC. They all freaked and wondered if the healers coud keep me up. They just don't get it... yet.

You can lead a noob to water but you can't make them *&^%$ !!

[pSINNa]

Yeh, the quest/raid will fail because there's a pally in it, or a ranger in it, or a bard in it, or a battle cleric/fvs in it, or a monk in it, or...... (/sarcasm off) because the leader is ignorant.

Ignorant people are in the majority, it's just basic statistics, it's easier to run your own groups, put 'all welcome' in the lfm, and enjoy letting everyone play what they've rolled with a relaxed leader that knows what he's about helping with the teamwork part (whilst having some fun).

As an oldish english punk band once sang 'That's,,, en-ter-tainment' xD

Coit out~

[Dylvish]

As one who doesn't understand Paladin strengths/weaknesses I can also attest to a general Pally hate. The sense I get is they are rather unspectacular in every way. Its a warrior type that some don't appear to really consider DPS. It may be a consequence of the usefulness of the prestige and enhancement lines.

With my own casual, non-empiracle observations. The fewer Pallys in a raid (replaced by pretty much anything else) the better the party performance.

Are they considered solo-ish and don't contribute as much to a party? I don't know.

I may be entirely off-base but am trying to relate.

Paladin's greatest strength is that they are arguably the toughest class around when it comes to trying to kill them. They get decent health, wear full plate (although with game mechanics, many go for skirts and evasion later on), Full BaB, some of the best saves in the game, and Lay on Hands, which is pretty much a full health bar, instant cast heal. They also get some nice self buffs, and can heal themselves with spells and wands in a pinch.
As for Offense, currently most go Chalice spec, which is the demon dps spec, and dual weild. They do bonus light damage (at level 20 if they are pure, they do +6d6 light damage vs evil outsiders each hit). They can do some pretty amazing burst damage with Exalted Smites (at lvl 20 again just for a number to give for reference, ES IV gives Charisma bonus x2 as a +to-hit. Also gives +2 critical threat range, bonus damage based on level, and can hit up to 3x if you are dual wielding). Divine Might IV gives +4 damage to each weapon as a buff. Divine Sacrifice is another clicky-hit, that does weapon damage +9d6 light damage and has a +1 critical threat range.

Paladin's are one of the clicky-est classes in game, but can do some very respectable damage, are amazingly resilient, and their aura buffs everyone around them with AC, resists to fear, +saves, +concentration.


Now you have a quick and basic breakdown on their strengths. Their weaknesses? They dont do as consistant damage as a Barb or Rogue (vs mobs that are not immune to SA damage anyway). They are also a very stat hungry class, and notably tight on feats / enhancements. They do not get evasion as a class skill (listed simply because many feel that is a weakness to any melee class).

Paladins bring a lot of good to any group or raid. The OP had an idiot that he was talking to.

[Meetch1972]

Some pally hate may be understandable to some degree, for a certain build or playstyle perhaps, or maybe even lack of a minimum setup of gear.

I say that because when my pally was younger I ran through a quest (Madstone?) in GH with a friend of mine doing the heals. He commented that my character seemed to be a lot more robust than the pally that had just left the party, and he was happy that he didn't have to babysit me like he did the last guy - at a similar level. I didn't think I was doing anything special, and this character would not be considered optimal. He's still not optimal, but has been one of the last few standing when a lag spike hit during shroud part 4 and we lost 7 or 8 party members, leaving a healer, a caster and 2 or 3 "DPS" to finish the job including my "gimp" paladin.

It might be possible that some of this sub-optimal nature of this character tipped it over a certain survivability point which isn't necessary when you have a certain mix of maxed healing/buffing capabilities that my paladin can't match (and would hence be unable to run Epic effectively) - I dunno. But at end-game PUGging VoD I've recently found him getting the sole hate aggro when the intim isn't there on the boss, and that's with the 20% hate reduction from the Tharnes set, so his damage output can't be toooo bad.

So yes, some paladins are gimp. So are some other melee classes, some bards, some casters, some healers, some exploiters... if they're not played to suit the way they are built and equipped, expect them to suck.

[Irongutz2000]

I agree there is ppl onn this server who hate palis as a class, i can even name them. The thing that i find most amusing is the those same ppl put up lfm for things like TOD,VOD an even shroud an deny palis. When a well built pali will out dps or be onn par with barbs in those raids.


I think it is becuase there r some poor builds but don't hate the class as a whole becuase there r gimps running around....there r gimp barbs an fighters 2.............:P

[DrenglisEU]

It seems that we never get away from this "I hate xxxx class/race" issue... it is as old as DDO itself and proven completly incorrect every single time... well if one thing is sure is that there will always been n00bs out there (cannot say loonies since I'm one)

[phalaeo]

NVM, I read this as "Pallai" hate. Carry on as usual.

[Sirea]

As one who doesn't understand Paladin strengths/weaknesses I can also attest to a general Pally hate. The sense I get is they are rather unspectacular in every way. Its a warrior type that some don't appear to really consider DPS. It may be a consequence of the usefulness of the prestige and enhancement lines.

With my own casual, non-empiracle observations. The fewer Pallys in a raid (replaced by pretty much anything else) the better the party performance.

Are they considered solo-ish and don't contribute as much to a party? I don't know.

I may be entirely off-base but am trying to relate.

Sounds like you've played with some ****** paladins.

[Bodic]

just remember that a Shroud with 4 bards 4 rogues 2 rangers 1 pally and 1 FvS is Doooom'd to fail

But will succeed in half the time of a balanced group. :P

(insert 12 competant people) will succeed.

[Grecan]

I really don't have something to add regarding the OP, i agree with most of the above posts, like no. 3, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13...

My contribution will be a musical one, like the majority of my posts

As an oldish english punk band once sang 'That's,,, en-ter-tainment' xD

I think calling The Jam a punk band is somewhat misleading. I guess they had punk elements, but there was much more to it. And this is the song you mention.


p.s: I <3 Paul Weller

[Willievonpat]

Strange... How.. Very... Strange... That... Is.... Indeed.

[stoolcannon]

I'm running an 18/2(monk) and still using my basic holy kopeshes I create and I have very little difficulty pulling aggro off of anyone in shroud unless I take it easy and try not to. In addition I'm very self sufficient and able to stay out of my trouble since I've got my LOH to bail me out of tight spots. If I'm anywhere within range of mass heals in raids I'm going to be the last person that drops, never the first.

I can see where some people could get the impression that Pali's are gimped though because if you try to run a pure party support pali (like I did before GR) you can't really do enough DPS, can't heal well enough to do more than emergency spot healing and can't hold aggro to maintank. I was way more self sufficient due to my high AC but my choice of sword and board (using longswords no less) really gimped the hell out of my toon. I was new to DDO though and didn't know what I know now.

[fuzzy1guy]

I hate my pally... But not because they suck.. Turbine just nerfed away the cool toys is all.


Paladins are still way survivable and near 100% self sufficient while keeping dps in the top tier over all classes.

Leveling up the pally it didn't die that much at all. And was quite often the last one standing in a party wipe and able to bring the rest of the party back to life.

DPSwise i can pull agro from almost any other toon too.

LoH even let me survive wipe or near-wipe due to lag in part 4 of shroud many times. And was able to pull thru so long as one healer of any sort survived as well.

Good, solid, average, highly survivable.


And everyone loves the pally aura buffs.