HO Rogue - 34 pt

[Consumer]

Will be TRing into this build or a Fighter depending on if I get Tharne's Goggles before U7 or not. Past life is Barbarian for the free 10 HP. I would like your thoughts on 10 int and 14 con vs 8 int and 15 con.


Stats:

Str - 20
Dex - 15
Con - 15/14
Wis - 8
Int - 8/10
Cha - 6

Feats

1 - TWF
3 - Khopesh
6 - PA
9 - ITWF
12 - IC: Slashing
15 - GTWF
18 - Quickdraw/Toughness

10 - Opportunist
13 - Improved Evasion
16 - Crippling Strike
19 - Slippery Mind

Enhancements

Rogue haste boost IV - 10 AP
Rogue extra action boost II - 6 AP
Rogue sneak attack training IV - 10 AP
Rogue capstone - 2 AP
Rogue assassin III - 8 AP
Rogue SA accuracy IV - 10 AP
Rogue subtle backstabbing III - 6 AP
Rogue Damage boost II - 3 AP
Rogue Move Silently II - 2 AP
Rogue Hide II - 2 AP
Rogue Faster Sneaking II - 3 AP

= 62 AP

Half Orc enhancements:

Str II - 6 AP
PA III - 6 AP
Action Boost II - 6 AP

= 18 AP









I have prepared a preview image of what this beast will look like.

[destiny4405]

was having that problem myself. i would go with 18 str, and raise some other stats to add a little bit more utillity to the build. also, hide II and move silently II will cost 1 point each, so i would put the extra point on DD, or subtle backstabbing IV if you can take one point from something else. BTW, how is action boost II 6 ap?

[Bodic]

if you seriously have quality pesh that is lvl2 maybe but I doubt that.

Toughness is your first feat

you want a neg modifer and not take skill mastery you would rather fail a will save 2x

go odd on a stat if you are TRing with a +3 tome or have the exceptional's or suffer the Odd stat until you do.

[Dark-Star]

I'd take toughness instead of Khop as well, and use a two hander for a while as you'll be doing a lot more damage at lower levels with it. PA later, khopesh at 6 if you have your radiance2 and lightning2 set made.

Take crippling strike at 10, by far your best class feat until epics.

I'd give serious consideration to going 18 str and 18 con, at least to cap. You will be doing some massive DPS on that build, and will need to be able to take it in the face.

[Razcar]

I would go 8 Int 15 Con, esp. if you want to build him like in your picture . If you are a TR you will have gear and buffs for traps. In fact I'd might go 19 Str and boost Con a little more, especially if you will take Toughness that late, or not at all.

[Consumer]

Its pure so wielding a two hander will give -4 to hit. It's a TR so I need Khops early as I have twink items followed by GS.

The Barb past life makes up for toughness at low levels and at 11/12 it gets minos, GFL, GS cloak. Can leave PA to 18 depending on to hit and take toughness earlier, all ways have a free feat swap if its a problem.

I wont drop str as the build is being rolled to max DPS, with the +3/-3 from PA I need to give it all the extra to hit it can get.

Action boost II is 6 AP as it also includes Action boost I, the line is 2 AP, 4 AP and 6 AP for III.



I had forgotten that the skills were being reduced to 1 AP each tier, will change the enhancements.

[Film]

I was thinking of a similar build but using rapiers. Would it still be feasible, not highest of course, but feasible? Also, are you losing too much from Half-Orc by going TWF instead of THF? Thinking of a possible TR for my Elf Rapier Tempest.

[Consumer]

I was thinking of a similar build but using rapiers. Would it still be feasible, not highest of course, but feasible? Also, are you losing too much from Half-Orc by going TWF instead of THF? Thinking of a possible TR for my Elf Rapier Tempest.

Going THF on a Rogue would be a mistake unless it is for flavour (Q-staff build).

You will only lose ~20 DPS going with rapiers, this build can break 700 DPS so it won't be a problem. You will also have an advantage with Rad II Rapiers over khops.

[Jaid314]

Going THF on a Rogue would be a mistake unless it is for flavour (Q-staff build).

You will only lose ~20 DPS going with rapiers, this build can break 700 DPS so it won't be a problem. You will also have an advantage with Rad II Rapiers over khops.

it will be a rather slight advantage, imo. i have a rogue with a repeater, and i crit all the time for radiance on that thing. still, i suppose a slight advantage is still an advantage.

[Film]

Going THF on a Rogue would be a mistake unless it is for flavour (Q-staff build).

You will only lose ~20 DPS going with rapiers, this build can break 700 DPS so it won't be a problem. You will also have an advantage with Rad II Rapiers over khops.

Appreciate the reply, thank you!

[destiny4405]

Action boost II is 6 AP as it also includes Action boost I, the line is 2 AP, 4 AP and 6 AP for III.

i though you meant orcish action boost. orcish action boost I and II cost 3 ap, and for 6 ap you get AB III also. no reason to take rogue's AB line over this one:

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...Action_Boost_I

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...ction_Boost_II

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...tion_Boost_III

[Consumer]

i though you meant orcish action boost. orcish action boost I and II cost 3 ap, and for 6 ap you get AB III also. no reason to take rogue's AB line over this one:

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...Action_Boost_I

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...ction_Boost_II

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...tion_Boost_III

After testing on live HO action boosts are in fact 1,2,3 AP. You take both lines because more boosts are always better than less boosts.

Anyway the updated build is in the HO forums.

[Razcar]

no reason to take rogue's AB line over this one

Take both.

[Draccus]

+1 for the sketch.

[Doc_Serious]

I have recently rolled up a 32-point build Horc rogue, vaguely following this build, I have a slight worry about being able to actually hit mobs in end game. Should mention here that I am an inexperienced DDO'er (5+ years in WoW before coming to my senses...) and this is my second toon.

Going down this line (DW Khopesh) without OTWF will give me a small minus to hit, but then to take PA (and max the Orc Racial imp PA) will give me an additional -8 to hit. Seems to be a lot of -hit stacking up there.

Was recently running level 4 Elite quests on my level 5, and missing A LOT, this with rapier MH, shortsword OH.

Guess I wanted to know:

Will the combined -12 to hit of maxed PA with DW Khop (no OTWF) have a significant effect later on (i.e. Shroud and onwards).

Should I drop the idea of wasting a Feat on Khopesh, and going with STR-based Rapiers so I can pick up OTWF?

Could I be better off taking Khop anyway, but only using one in my MH, and sticking a Shortsword in the other (not really sure what GS combo I would get there).

Or are my fears of not being able to hit mobs totally unfounded at higher levels?

Sorry, I am clueless about endgame right now, but I'm a pretty quick study once I have the knowledge I need.

[Malithar45]

Really good first post Doc, IMO. Welcome to DDO, hope you enjoy the stay.

As to your questions, its a bit difficult to answer. Compared to just a year ago, you could say not to worry at all about the -hit that you're seeing. With the introduction of Epics though as part of the endgame, and the awkward scaling with them, its a bit different of a scenario. While most raids on normal or hard, that -hit wouldn't be an issue, but on many epic bosses, you'd be eating right into your DPS. Power Attack is nice in thats its a balancing act, toss it on during those times when that -attack and +damage is awesome, pop it back off when you step into something where every point of +attack matters. As far as Khopesh/Shortsword, I can't disagree more. You'd be splitting your crit specializations then, only gaining on presumably your MH slashing khopesh. You could offhand a Sickle as an option, but I don't think the hit to attack would be a big enough deal to go to such a subpar weapon.

I will say that as a first time play through, Str based rapiers are far easier to get by on than going for Khopesh IMO.

Know it wasn't really much help, but getting ready to go through my first TR (whenever large scales and Tharne's Goggles quit being so elusive) and I'm going through the same issues with my planned build. In many raid situations, bard buffs, destruction, imp destruction, fatigue, divine power, flanking, rage and recicitation (so glad they're bad to AOE) etc will be able to pull you through with your attack if you were to lower it so. Its a hard mindset to overcome since so much of a damage depends on just landing a hit. I don't really have any hard numbers as to what you'd need to hit endgame elite or epic bosses, but perhaps someone more knowledgable will be able to help you with that.

Again, great first post, hope you get the info you need.

[Consumer]

I have recently rolled up a 32-point build Horc rogue, vaguely following this build, I have a slight worry about being able to actually hit mobs in end game. Should mention here that I am an inexperienced DDO'er (5+ years in WoW before coming to my senses...) and this is my second toon.

Going down this line (DW Khopesh) without OTWF will give me a small minus to hit, but then to take PA (and max the Orc Racial imp PA) will give me an additional -8 to hit. Seems to be a lot of -hit stacking up there.

Was recently running level 4 Elite quests on my level 5, and missing A LOT, this with rapier MH, shortsword OH.

Guess I wanted to know:

Will the combined -12 to hit of maxed PA with DW Khop (no OTWF) have a significant effect later on (i.e. Shroud and onwards).

Should I drop the idea of wasting a Feat on Khopesh, and going with STR-based Rapiers so I can pick up OTWF?

Could I be better off taking Khop anyway, but only using one in my MH, and sticking a Shortsword in the other (not really sure what GS combo I would get there).

Or are my fears of not being able to hit mobs totally unfounded at higher levels?

Sorry, I am clueless about endgame right now, but I'm a pretty quick study once I have the knowledge I need.

To hit in DDO is largely to do with gear, however if you are having trouble hitting there are several things you can do.

Once you start getting raid loot like Tharne's Goggles from VoD, Tower of Despair sets and Green Steel weapons along with items like spectral gloves from Offering of Blood you will find hitting mobs easier and easier. Before you have this type of gear I would recommend you to not take the PA enhancements.

Anyway if your having trouble hitting a mob always flank it and be standing still when you start to attack. You can use weapons with destruction and improved destruction to reduce mobs AC.

[Doc_Serious]

Thanks chaps, I hadn't spotted that shortswords were in fact piercing weapons, would always assume they were slashing. So it looks like going down the Khopesh route would always lead to DWing them. I guess I can try both Khop vs Rapier+OTWF and see, as feats are easily resetable. And in any case the final decision doesn't need to be made until I get to the point when I am crafting my first greensteel anyway.

Loving the Horc rogue though in the meantime, I'm a bit of a min/maxer in my previous lives and it was the PA enhancement line that attracted me to this race/class combo, and therefore this build.

[Hokonoso]

Thanks chaps, I hadn't spotted that shortswords were in fact piercing weapons, would always assume they were slashing. So it looks like going down the Khopesh route would always lead to DWing them. I guess I can try both Khop vs Rapier+OTWF and see, as feats are easily resetable. And in any case the final decision doesn't need to be made until I get to the point when I am crafting my first greensteel anyway.

Loving the Horc rogue though in the meantime, I'm a bit of a min/maxer in my previous lives and it was the PA enhancement line that attracted me to this race/class combo, and therefore this build.

the idea is khopesh do SO MUCH more dps than rapiers that it is worth the feat. however if you do not have the gear to hit (which you should since SA to hit is ridiculous) then rapiers will give you that extra +2 to hit with otwf...

[Razcar]

the idea is khopesh do SO MUCH more dps than rapiers that it is worth the feat. however if you do not have the gear to hit (which you should since SA to hit is ridiculous) then rapiers will give you that extra +2 to hit with otwf...

I'll be TRing my rogue into a Half-Orc, and will take the rogue past life feat Deadly Shadows instead of khopesh. With rapiers it will give me higher DPS for bosses and important mobs. Khopesh does not give rogues as big a DPS advantage over rapier as it does on other melee classes. And you cannot fit both khopesh and Deadly Shadows, unless you skimp on Toughness, go Human or MC.

Toughness
Two Weapon Fighting
Past Life: Sneak of Shadows OR khopesh
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Critical
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Power Attack