Stunning Acrobat

[hooblaboo]

I was wondering whether the DC of Stunning Blow on this build would be high enough. Any other advice is also welcome.
***Please don't mention Half Orcs, since I am not VIP, and I do not wish to buy them, for the moment.***

True Neutral Dwarf


Stats
Str 18 *Level Ups here
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 8

+2 tomes as you get them


Level Progression (13 Rogue / 7 Fighter)
Level 1 Rogue
Level 2-3 Fighter
Level 4-9 Rogue
Level 10-13 Fighter
Level 14-18 Rogue
Level 19 Fighter
Level 20 Rogue


Feats
1: Toughness
2: Two Handed Fighting
3: Stunning Blow
3: Power Attack
6: Iron Will (Any input on what i should use here? I don't think my will saves will be high enough to matter...)
9: Improved Two Handed Fighting
11: Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
12: Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
13: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
15: Greater Two Handed Fighting
16: Opportunist
18: Toughness (Again, any idea as to what i should take? Although the extra HP is nice)
20: Improved Evasion


Skills
Maxed Rank
UMD
Disable Device
Open Lock
Search
Spot

Others
Balance
Jump
Tumble


Enhancements
Fighter Attack Boost II
Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Fighter Strength I
Fighter Toughness I
Fighter Kensai I
Fighter Quarterstaff Mastery I
Rogue Haste Boost II
Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Rogue Balance II
Rogue Tumble II
Rogue Dexterity III
Rogue Theif Acrobat II
Dwarven Constitution II
Dwarven Spell Defense II
Dwarven Tactics III
Racial Toughness I


Stunning Blow DC
10 Base
11 Strength (18 + 5 level ups + 2 tome + 1 enhancement + 6 item)
10 Weapon
3 Dwarven Tactics
3 Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow)
1 Fighter Kensai
__________________________________________________ _______
38 DC (Any idea as to how I could raise this to 40+?)




Thanks in advance for any feedback!

[Jaid314]

I was wondering whether the DC of Stunning Blow on this build would be high enough. Any other advice is also welcome.
***Please don't mention Half Orcs, since I am not VIP, and I do not wish to buy them, for the moment.***

True Neutral Dwarf


Stats
Str 18 *Level Ups here
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 8

+2 tomes as you get them


Level Progression (13 Rogue / 7 Fighter)
Level 1 Rogue
Level 2-3 Fighter
Level 4-9 Rogue
Level 10-13 Fighter
Level 14-18 Rogue
Level 19 Fighter
Level 20 Rogue


Feats
1: Toughness
2: Two Handed Fighting
3: Stunning Blow
3: Power Attack
6: Iron Will (Any input on what i should use here? I don't think my will saves will be high enough to matter...)
9: Improved Two Handed Fighting
11: Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
12: Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
13: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
15: Greater Two Handed Fighting
16: Opportunist
18: Toughness (Again, any idea as to what i should take? Although the extra HP is nice)
20: Improved Evasion


Skills
Maxed Rank
UMD
Disable Device
Open Lock
Search
Spot

Others
Balance
Jump
Tumble


Enhancements
Fighter Attack Boost II
Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Fighter Strength I
Fighter Toughness I
Fighter Kensai I
Fighter Quarterstaff Mastery I
Rogue Haste Boost II
Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Rogue Balance II
Rogue Tumble II
Rogue Dexterity III
Rogue Theif Acrobat II
Dwarven Constitution II
Dwarven Spell Defense II
Dwarven Tactics III
Racial Toughness I


Stunning Blow DC
10 Base
11 Strength (18 + 5 level ups + 2 tome + 1 enhancement + 6 item)
10 Weapon
3 Dwarven Tactics
3 Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow)
1 Fighter Kensai
__________________________________________________ _______
38 DC (Any idea as to how I could raise this to 40+?)




Thanks in advance for any feedback!

heh, i've just done a fair amount of research into this actually. presuming you want this to be quarterstaff-based, otherwise you wouldn't make it an acrobat (also presuming that you don't want to be either WF or half-orc, possibly because you don't own the races... either is technically going to get better results out of THF feats, power attack, and in the case of half-orc damage), you're going to be looking at either a ToD ring (to get the exceptional +3 strength) or epic cape of the roc. you could also consider the epic red dragon helm or epic belt of the mroranon if you have the appropriate packs, either will give you +7 strength from the item.

failing this, your likely options are yugoloth potions (for +2 strength) and the spell rage (in potion, clicky, or actual spell form), madstone rage, and the titan's grip gloves out of mindsunder (madstone is reasonably sustainable, titan's grip you only get like 3 minutes per rest broken into 1 minute sections... but it is still +6 strength!)

it should be noted that most of these things are not necessarily *easy* to get, but they are theoretical possibilities.

as far as 38 being useful, yes and no. it should do reasonably well for much of the game. i doubt it will do terribly well in elite amrath, and in epics i understand that should be fairly effective against some targets, and likely works something like 50-75% of the time depending on target. recommended DC is low-to-mid 40s if at all possible, from my understanding.

only other source right now that i'm aware of is completionist feat, or past life: fighter feats. should you wish to pursue that course, you are of course entitled to do so... but i don't anticipate you'll have an easy time of it

(on a side note: i'm not sure how much improved crit is doing for you, considering it's a 20/x2 weapon, not to mention you've got stunning blow to hopefully guarantee crits when you need anyways. the second toughness and iron will are also candidates for other feats... my personal suggestion would be that you consider cleave and great cleave, since you apparently get sneak attack on cleaves/great cleaves but not on glancing blows. i might also suggest skill focus:UMD if you're not sure you'll be able to hit those high-end DCs.

[Samadhi]

I only gave a cursory glance - but what I saw I liked.

[Dylvish]

Off the topic (I like the build btw), but Is there another char builder out there I am not aware of? I see the above layout often, and have been wondering if its a builder layout, or if people are just entering all the info by hand on the posts. (I ask because I have the other char gen, and while I like it, I like this layout much better for posting).

[elujin]

i curently rolling up a stunning wf acrobat made him 13/6/1 rog/fighter/monk

firestance is a +1 dc and dmg the 7 the fighter level isn't doing that mutch (fighter stunning blowIII)
and windstance if there is haste also gives my wf the abilty to use the 25 % healing amp(when in firestance) braces from sentinals

if you don't have monk i guess fighter is nice too

my stats are mostly the same

iron will could be cleave (nice to jump over the front line and sneak attack a whole bunch of monsters in the back) and with stunning q-staves you have chanse one of them gets autostuned.
or
it could be an outher thoughness, acrobats like this pull agro and can take agro with the fighter hp 3d thoughness can only help that
i also considerd combat expertise + inprove trip but why trip if you can stun also needs a +1 int tome)

apart from iron will for cleave my feats are the same


for raising the stun dc rage and outher str adding stuff

a dc in the low 40's is good enough for epic i been told

my wf is lvl 10 (6rog/3fig/1monk) now and his stuns are landing well and he is a ton of fun
(i do need to carrey some hero pots and fox pots for traps and high sc and dd items and i have skill boost for leveling)

(to recap i looked at dwarf too but if you have wf (and monk) its a little bit better in my opinion dwarf work too though)

good luck on your build i hope you in joy it i know i am

[hooblaboo]

Thanks for all the replies! I guess i'll just carry pots and rage scrolls till i get Titan's Grip. I might just go 3 toughness to boost my HP, although that seems kind of a waste...

@elujin, Yeah monk wouldve been great, but since I don't own them, fighter seemed to be the best choice

About improved trip, how do the DC's get calculated, and what are the *goals* for epics?

Again thanks for the input!

[Jaid314]

Thanks for all the replies! I guess i'll just carry pots and rage scrolls till i get Titan's Grip. I might just go 3 toughness to boost my HP, although that seems kind of a waste...

@elujin, Yeah monk wouldve been great, but since I don't own them, fighter seemed to be the best choice

About improved trip, how do the DC's get calculated, and what are the *goals* for epics?

Again thanks for the input!

rage stacks with titan's grip, and there is absolutely no reason to not get +1 to hit and damage really. may as well carry the pots anyways.

as far as trip, haven't done nearly as much research into that... i do still recommend cleave and great cleave though, for those times when you actually do want to sneak attack a bunch of enemies

[elujin]

i think the trip dc is worse to pull off on elite

are cleave and greath cleave on outher timers ?

[krud]

I have a twf human 13rog/4ftr/3pal mutt, who for a long time was tactics oriented. It will work, though at higher levels I had to equip vertigo and weighted weapons to get consistent stuns and trips. It works better for a twf since I could put weighted in my offhand, and it applied to both. As far as DCs go it worked well up until amrath. At that point stun worked half the time at best. I didn't even bother in epic. Trip still worked, but I dropped that as well later on.

Feat suggestions:
Quick Draw - You'll want to get the most out of your stuns, and this will give you an extra attack or two if you have to switch from a weighted weapon to something else.

Improved trip - though it doesn't give auto-crit, or auto sneak attack, it helps since a tripped mob can't fight back or cast. If a stun fails you can always try a trip to give you time for stun to reset.

[elujin]

working half the time sin't to bad for a fort save and i am already using stunning staves the random stunes are fun and happen alot and that only with a +6 for now

[krud]

working half the time sin't to bad for a fort save and i am already using stunning staves the random stunes are fun and happen alot and that only with a +6 for now

That was on average for all mobs. On high fort mobs it was probably less than that. Even casters, who used to be close to automatic, were saving quite often.

[TheDearLeader]

Stunning Blow is a Fortitude-Based Save DC.

Trip/Improved Trip are either a Straight D20 roll + Str/Dex MODIFIER to save, whichever stat is highest.

That is why many characters can make all their Fort saves, but find themselves on the ground by a Bezekira.

With a DC 38 Stunning Blow, a level 20 Cleric (Base +12 Fort) With a, say, 22 Con (+6), Greater Heroism (+4), and a +5 Resistance Item would have a Fort save of 27. This means they would have to roll 11 or Higher to save - meaning 50% Efficacy. Also, most NPC mobs tend to have ridiculously high Fort saves, so this model is actually probably at the weaker end of their spectrum, esp. in Epics.

With a DC 38 Trip, 20s always save. So, we have to know what they'd need to save on a die roll of 19. Well 38 - 19 = 19. Meaning they'd need to have a +19 Modifier to Strength or Dex in order to save 10% of the time (19s and 20s). To put it simply, that's a 58 Strength or Dex for a 10% Chance of saving. Also, take into account that if you have Improved Trip instead of Stunning Blow, its an extra +4 to your DC, meaning that their Strength or Dex would need to be 8 higher, or 66, to have a 10% chance of saving.

Both come with their advantages and drawbacks. Stunning Blow allows you those Auto-Crits; Trip and Improved Trip do not. They do, however, work on mobs that are Crit/Stun Immune, like Constructs and Corporeal Undead.

Edit : I personally would Recommend against Cleave and Great Cleave. I had them on my Falchion Kensai FTR 20, and I felt rather underwhelmed by them. Activating the abilities causes an unfriendly pause in combat, when I could have just been doing good old regular pounding on a mob/group of mobs.

[Jaid314]

i think the trip dc is worse to pull off on elite

are cleave and greath cleave on outher timers ?

cleave and great cleave are on separate timers to each other according to what i have read (but i have not personally tested it). one is 5 second cooldown, the other 10 seconds i think?

[Sani_Medicor]

I just posted up some similar builds with other races. I just wasn't sure stun was worth the effort. I don't have much experience with it though.

[TheDearLeader]

i think the trip dc is worse to pull off on elite

are cleave and greath cleave on outher timers ?

Cleave and Great Cleave are both 5 Second timers, separate of one another. You could theoretically spam them back to back for the entirely of your time.

I personally would still not recommend them.

Also, read my above post. Trip is more likely to land on the majority of mobs, in and out of epics, as it is ability-based saves, not Fort-based saves.

[zed1]

There are lots of boost to strength, so I wouldn't worry too much about having your DC at 38. Get a stack of rage pots, and a pair of madstone boots (or 2). And you will be at 40 most of the time.

If monk is not an option, consider 13 rogue/6 fighter/1 barbarian. Your normal DC would be 1 lower, but your raging DC would be 1 higher.

Also, get Fighter Strength II if you have the AP. If you play this build long enough you will eventually get things like +3 tomes and TOD rings with +3 exceptional strength. But then again, resetting enhancements is pretty easy.

[krud]

Also, read my above post. Trip is more likely to land on the majority of mobs, in and out of epics, as it is ability-based saves, not Fort-based saves.

That was my experience. Trip landed more often than stun in amrath and beyond. btw - my stun dc's were around 32, imp trip 36.

[hooblaboo]

I think I will drop Iron Will and either one of the toughness(I like HP) or the improve critical feat to fit in Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. That means I would have to eat a +1(+2) int tome before level 6, which is fine, and will give me one additional skill point per level(if its +2), which would let me max Balance or something else.

I think I'm going to get a DC of 29 (10 base + 11 modifier + 4 Improved Trip + 3 Dwarven Tactics + 1 Kensai), With a vertigo weapon I could get 39. Add temporary buffs and I could get 40+ dc on trip, which should land consistantly

Thanks for feedbacks!



P.S. @Dylvish, I just wrote it in by hand. You could still use Ron's character planner, but I don't like that format so I decided to make this a little easier to read for other people.