Saving throw Vs Intimidate

[Khurse]

It may (possibly is) just be me, but I think that higher level "intelligent" mobs should get some sort of saving throw against intimidate,both the skill and the actual combat mechanic. Certainly not a blanket immunity to it, but something to add a bit of a difference rather than "have we got the 80+ Intimi tank?/ Let the 70 Str ESoS
Barb beat on Horoth for a minute until he has aggro"

I know we'll probably never see things like the higher intelligence Monsters actually realize it might be better to use their wings and fly around rather than getting beaten on by 10-20 Greensteel weapons, but I like to think that maybe sometimes Horoth (for example) might decide that maybe the guy taunting them from behind the shield and massive DR wall aren't quite as important as the 10 guys beating on his back.

Basiclly I'd just like to see some sort of mechanic that says Maybe he'll keep being intimidated, but there's also a decent chance he'll use his (or her/or it's) massive intelligence to figure out maybe if he throws a maximum empowered disintegrate on one or two other guys attacking him from behind it might slow his attackers down. Or Maybe if he flies off and stomps the arcane running his orthons around, the orthons may actually participate in the fight.
Or maybe if he pays the healers a visit with some maxed out DBF's and Disintegrates , the party might have to adopt different tactics.

Could just be me (and I must admit I do not have an intimidate build) but I'd like to see some sort of challenge from some Mobs that can't really be solved with simply intimidate/gain agrro and kill mob while it pretty much tries to beat on one guy it's not really going to be able to hurt.

[blitzschlag]

It may (possibly is) just be me, but I think that higher level "intelligent" mobs should get some sort of saving throw against intimidate,both the skill and the actual combat mechanic. Certainly not a blanket immunity to it, but something to add a bit of a difference rather than "have we got the 80+ Intimi tank?/ Let the 70 Str ESoS
Barb beat on Horoth for a minute until he has aggro"

I know we'll probably never see things like the higher intelligence Monsters actually realize it might be better to use their wings and fly around rather than getting beaten on by 10-20 Greensteel weapons, but I like to think that maybe sometimes Horoth (for example) might decide that maybe the guy taunting them from behind the shield and massive DR wall aren't quite as important as the 10 guys beating on his back.

Basiclly I'd just like to see some sort of mechanic that says Maybe he'll keep being intimidated, but there's also a decent chance he'll use his (or her/or it's) massive intelligence to figure out maybe if he throws a maximum empowered disintegrate on one or two other guys attacking him from behind it might slow his attackers down. Or Maybe if he flies off and stomps the arcane running his orthons around, the orthons may actually participate in the fight.
Or maybe if he pays the healers a visit with some maxed out DBF's and Disintegrates , the party might have to adopt different tactics.

Could just be me (and I must admit I do not have an intimidate build) but I'd like to see some sort of challenge from some Mobs that can't really be solved with simply intimidate/gain agrro and kill mob while it pretty much tries to beat on one guy it's not really going to be able to hurt.

the boss has a saving value. its supposedly 10 + HD + wis mod. if anyone can beat that he brought the point across that he is more dangerous than the bard whacking away with his greataxe. thats the point.

the thing is, that does not come for free. you have to give something up to get enough intimi to be of use there...

[Khurse]

Yes, my point is having a mob with a genius (or so) level intellect try to beat on a guy whom

A) He can't hit
B) He can't damage (due to massive DR)
C) Keeps getting healed if he does manage to hurt him

is stupid.
By no means am I saying that there should be a blanket immunity, I'm just saying at some point he should go "maybe I need to change tactics, I will ignore this guy (girl/other) and go kill the healer that's keeping him up.There, now that I've hit that healer with 6 chain cast disintegrates and he's a pile of ash, maybe if I stomped that Arcane who's wailing on my troops they can help me deal with this clod who's the greatest danger to me"

[Tazarith]

Yes, my point is having a mob with a genius (or so) level intellect try to beat on a guy whom

A) He can't hit
B) He can't damage (due to massive DR)
C) Keeps getting healed if he does manage to hurt him

is stupid.
By no means am I saying that there should be a blanket immunity, I'm just saying at some point he should go "maybe I need to change tactics, I will ignore this guy (girl/other) and go kill the healer that's keeping him up.There, now that I've hit that healer with 6 chain cast disintegrates and he's a pile of ash, maybe if I stomped that Arcane who's wailing on my troops they can help me deal with this clod who's the greatest danger to me"

I think that what you're suggesting isn't exactly possible - atleast not in this stage of the game or any game for that matter. It would take alot of A.I that most online game providers wouldn't be able to justify the cost for ie. programing development, larger processing capabilities.

In the future I can see it, but not now and certainly not with this game as it is currently.

[MarkusWolfe]

The way I look at this is 'Fine, maybe the bosses should have really high saves against intimidate, but anything that isn't as boss should have much lower saves. I'm talking between 40-50 here.'

[Nospheratus]

A 200k hp mob that regens 20% of his hps when someone dies going after the healers makes the quest nearly impossible...

I'm not saying it wouldn't make sense, but i don't think it can be made like that.

Perhaps if the cleric draws agro with the healing... In that case, the hate tank would need to generate a lot of hate and in the end i think it wouldn't make a difference from what we have now.

[EKKM]

The problem with that suggestion is it invalidates a lot of builds. An endgame capable intimtank gives up a LOT to achieve those figures. If the best mobs in the game just ignore it what's the point of building it?

If it was only once for a given boss I could see implementing something like that adding some excitement to the game so I'm not completely against the idea. I just want to emphasize that it should not be a save against intim, more of every 20-30 seconds attack some random character, a healer or the "real" aggro leader.

[Impaqt]

Intelligence has little to do with being intimable.

the "Tank" has been a staple of MMO's since the introduction of the MMO. in DDO that "Tank" takes many more forms, but the result is often the same. Whether you are using Intim or or Damage to hold aggro makes very little difference.

Regardless, there are many different tactics used on raid boss's every day. many successful runs without using any sort of Intim and even without having a dedicated "hate tank"

[bunitchu]

Yes, my point is having a mob with a genius (or so) level intellect try to beat on a guy whom

A) He can't hit
B) He can't damage (due to massive DR)
C) Keeps getting healed if he does manage to hurt him

is stupid.
By no means am I saying that there should be a blanket immunity, I'm just saying at some point he should go "maybe I need to change tactics, I will ignore this guy (girl/other) and go kill the healer that's keeping him up.There, now that I've hit that healer with 6 chain cast disintegrates and he's a pile of ash, maybe if I stomped that Arcane who's wailing on my troops they can help me deal with this clod who's the greatest danger to me"

here is how intimidate usually plays on D&D

1- u provoke the mob who will frenetically try to chew on ur butt
2- u scare the heck out of ur target

well, DDO tossed the numer 1 approach to it, suposedly when u intimidate a mob, its not a matter of him thinking "oh how amusing, he middle fingered me, how about i try to hit him a bit for that and see how it plays out", its more like "motha.... i will show u what i think of that middle finger" followed by "someday i will hit u, and when that day comes!!!!", and then finally "Oh, so my slap didnt hurt u?! No prob, i will slap untill it hurts". Try on pnp gettin to a mindsunder and saying "u cant mindcontrol meee...u cant mindcontrol meee!!" and u will see a very umpleased mob trying to make u scratch ur face on the ground.
besides, mobs here are willing to self immolate on firewalls as long as they can chew on the mage that is running through it, so why not try to kill the non firewalled tin man who showed them a nice middle finger? =3