Drow Enhancements

[noinfo]

Drow and elves suffer from lack of dev love. Yes they say that they will get a racial PRE (but so will other races) but even a racial PRE does not fix some of the shortcomings, and lets face it in DDO it is the enhancements that define the race more than anything else. And while bits and pieces of this have been suggested before, now that we seem to have more dev interaction it seems reasonable to bring it up again.

Common requests are things such as a 32 pt build for Drow, this is often counterd by the suggestion that they are already a 32pt build with the pts fixed. I think most of us

would agree that for the most part only 2 of those 3 bonuses are infact useful to anyone build anyway.

I would suggest that at 32pt build unlock drow noble/elder become available with a 30 pt build and access to the following, from a marketing point they may be put as separate to 32 pt builds.


Instead of Dragon marks

Spell-Like Abilities:

Drow can use the following spell-like abilities (1 per rest maybe with optional addtional uses):

dancing lights (Not really applicable in game)
darkness would see this as a variation of Glitterdust
faerie fire (negate blur/Displacement/Invis on 1 target)
levitate (in some cases) (blade barrier casting anmimation for 3 seconds head in the cloud buff)

A variation of the spell like abilites is to add a feat called Drow Noble which works along the lines of Dragon
mark feats opening up the use of the above powers



Improvements:

Lets look at the strengths and common traits of the race (I am by no means familiar with the drow or ebberon in
general in the rpg setting having played like many 20+ years in other settings)
SR, while when they were introduced it was way overpowered to have their full SR, this has changed, the suggestion
for the enhancements to take this even further is a reasonable one as it does not protect vs damage spells and
would provide only a small advatage at best over some classes.

2 Weapon fighting, Drow since their introduction in DnD have been known for their 2 Weapon fighting ability. My
first thought was to make the tempest prc available as a racial but nightmares of 20th level fighter capstoned
tempested kept me up at night :-)

My suggestion for this is to provide and alternate line for the rapier/shortsword similar to longsword/rapier and
Scimitar for elves as follows:

While weilding 2 weapons instead of a specific weapon drow can unlock the +2/+2 hit damage bonus. This would allow
drow to gain a bonus with any weapon while dual weilding.

This would be exclusive of the current bonus to short sword/rapier to allow people

As another enhancement line in ballance with the dwarf armour mastery, Drow may unlock a 2 weapon bonus to defense
(thinking +2 at the moment but may be higher)

[wiglin]

Start with giving drow their full SR that they should already have. Warforged were given their immunities a while back. They used to have to spend enhancements to get them.

[Requiro]

Nice suggestion. /signed

And add one more: let us choice witch stat we want to bump with enchantements exclusive (DEX / INT / CHA). One line block other one.

[SneakThief]

And add one more: let us choice witch stat we want to bump with enchantements exclusive (DEX / INT / CHA). One line block other one.

While I love this idea ... it would need some thought as it would change the balance of things quite a bit.
It would definitely justify their price! Though they might need to remove them from favor rewards if they do that.

[Bacab]

In PnP DnD (which is where the idea of SR comes from) Drow are a 2 level adjustment.

Giving them full SR would be over-powered.

I personally do not like the idea of Drow getting to pick either DEX CHR INT to get better in...unless they do it like human. Say let a Drow take a +1 in any of those...but not the same stat twice?

Lets be honest here...+4 CHR or +4 INT would indeed be over-powered. A +3 in either or BOTH would still be strong, but not as game-breaking.

I would think an alternate to Racial Tempest...

Give drow Racial Archmage. As in let a Drow SOR or FVS or CLR have some of the Archmage abilities?

*Or*

Allow drow to get a Racial Radiant Servant (would have to weaken the aura a bit) since Drow where a Divine Race also.

*OR*

Personally I think drow should get a Racial PRE called "Soulstone" baisically when you die...your soulstone is really big and easy to find. Also let drow have 15 seconds to run from their soul stone since they spend more time dead than any other race.

[Thriand]

I personally do not like the idea of Drow getting to pick either DEX CHR INT to get better in...unless they do it like human. Say let a Drow take a +1 in any of those...but not the same stat twice?

Lets be honest here...+4 CHR or +4 INT would indeed be over-powered. A +3 in either or BOTH would still be strong, but not as game-breaking.

Why is having a +2 racial modifier, and a +2 enhancement overpowered if it applies to cha or int?

Its not broken when elves/halfling do it for dex, or when WF/Dwarves do it for con, or half-orcs for strength, so what makes it overpowered for cha and int?

A human can currently have the same effective int/cha as a drow in endgame content, since DDO has no use for odd stats, I personally think drow need the +2 enhancements to give them the extra edge vs WF and humans.

[Requiro]

Giving them full SR would be over-powered.
So Cleric's "Spell Resistance" Spell is overpowered? For me better idea will be 10 + 1/ level. With 4 enchantements +1 (1/2/3/4 AP). You will eventually get 34 SR (on 20 lvl) and that will be worth 10 AP. Not like we have today.

Lets be honest here...+4 CHR or +4 INT would indeed be over-powered.
So there are more over-powered rase: Dwarf and WF (+4 con), Elf and Halfling (+4 dex), Half-Orc (+4 str) If Drow get this opportunity to choice what stat rise, that will make them good alternative for Casters (alternative to WF (self-healing) and Human (feat) 32 point)

While I love this idea ... it would need some thought as it would change the balance of things quite a bit. Not so much. You can get +1 DC, and some SP more in cost of 6 AP (wich most casters can't afford) . That's all
It would definitely justify their price! Though they might need to remove them from favor rewards if they do that.
Just rise the level of favor that you can get drow. 600 maybe? This race will still get bad enchantements and -2 con, and only 2 tiers of Toughness.

Comments in Green

[Bacab]

Comments in Green

About the INT and CHR increase to +4...

Mental stats being increased by +4 is unprecedented.

Physical stats...it is not that big of a deal.

Mental stats AKA Spell DC's. It's huge.

But I will play your game.

Which stat *should* Drow get? CHR? INT? DEX? Or would the human way of a +1 anywhere but not a +2 be fair?

You can not really have the option of a +4 anywhere you want.

As far as the SR...I am fine with it the 12+level...if you take the 2 level penalty also.

Ask *any* pnp DnD player and they will say...the one thing that makes drow so great is the SR.

12+1 per level SR means over half of all magic is just flat out ignored...

I can agree with the +4 CON on Dwarf and WF and the +4 STR on Half-orc is kinda over-powered...but the +4 DEX of halflings and elves...is pretty bad. Racial DEX is garbage.

[Requiro]

Mental stats AKA Spell DC's. It's huge.
Oh yes... It's HUGE: +1 DC - WOW The Huge will be cost of AP=6. Most casters will have to trade something for this.

Which stat *should* Drow get? CHR? INT? DEX?
You don't understand me. You can pick only one stat and one line block other. Wizards probably take INT, Sorcerers or FvS or Bards CHR.
Or would the human way of a +1 anywhere but not a +2 be fair? Yes. Because humans get one more feat, and some nice enchantments

You can not really have the option of a +4 anywhere you want.
Why not? With 32 point build I can do it on any other race (yes I know - you don't have this on your mind. Just show you that Drows don't get this HUGE adventage)

As far as the SR...I am fine with it the 12+level...if you take the 2 level penalty also.
Ask *any* pnp DnD player and they will say...the one thing that makes drow so great is the SR.
12+1 per level SR means over half of all magic is just flat out ignored...

Just remaind you - this is DDO, not PnP DnD. Spells are different here. SR=32 (from Cleric's spell) are only for some more protect. And only small one.

I can agree with the +4 CON on Dwarf and WF and the +4 STR on Half-orc is kinda over-powered I disagree with you. but the +4 DEX of halflings and elves...is pretty bad. Some bow specialist players won't agree with you

Comments in Green

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Giving them full SR would be over-powered.

That duplicates a single L5 spell. Hardly overpowered.

It's also not nearly as powerful as the D&D verison of SR since DDO SR does not stop direct damage spells.

[Bacab]

That duplicates a single L5 spell. Hardly overpowered.

It's also not nearly as powerful as the D&D verison of SR since DDO SR does not stop direct damage spells.

I want...

True Seeing
Stalwart Pact
Protection From Elements

On my <insert race here>...its not broken because its only a level 5 Cleric Spell. hardly Overpowered...

I can agree that SR not affecting Direct DMG spells is bogus IMHO though.

I feel Drow intentionally have their setbacks/strengths/weaknesses.

I guess my big question is this...what would it take as far as buffs go to NEVER EVER see a "PLZ BUFF DROW BECAUSE THEY SUCK" thread?

I mean seriously. I guess either all these threads fall on deaf ears? Or maybe the Devs thinks its WAI?

I Drow were giving the SR...would that be enough?

If they were given the choice to not take enhancements in DEX and could pick CHR *or* INT would that be better?

Lets say you could only get one or the other. Which would you take? SR or Exceptional CHR/INT?

[Thriand]

I mean seriously. I guess either all these threads fall on deaf ears? Or maybe the Devs thinks its WAI?

Someone clearly missed where even the devs think drow SR is "weaksauce"

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=38

[Bacab]

Someone clearly missed where even the devs think drow SR is "weaksauce"

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=38

Holy cow!

And that was posted recently.

Maybe they will do something about it.

I totally agree with the SR sucking.

I seriously feel drow are BY FAR the weakest race...and that is a problem.

There should be a legitimate debate at what each race excels at.

Everyone (race) should have something they are good at IMHO. Maybe they will do something and "fix" drow.

I do think we have hashed out some good starts.

One thing I have noticed is that drow get nice casting stats...maybe they should get some bonus SP if they are Wizards or Sorcs? Kinda like the Dwarf CLR and PLD ones?

[Requiro]

One thing I have noticed is that drow get nice casting stats

No they don't. People just play them because:
- Have no 32 point build (and no intend to buy it)
- Have no 32 point boild (and want to TR)
- Have no WF
- Just like Drow, and always played Drow.

The worst is that even for Sorcerers, WF (-2 CHR) are better then Drow

If Turibne change the SR for Drow - that will be nice.
But this should be only first step to improve that race.
Even with improve SR Drow will be still the worst race in DDO.

I read somewhere another idea. Give Drow 12 + 1/level for free, and enchantements will provide Immunities:

• 1 AP - Disease Immunity
• 2 AP - Disease Immunity and Poison Immunity
• 3 AP - Disease Immunity, Poison Immunity and Fear Immunity
• 4 AP - Disease Immunity, Poison Immunity, Fear Immunity and Blindness Immunity

All this ability we can find on Items. So this will not be overpowered.

Nevertheless I still prefer ability to choice what stat we want to rise (exclusive).

[SneakThief]

The worst is that even for Sorcerers, WF (-2 CHR) are better then Drow

Arguable since I know several people that play drow sorcs for the sole reason of having the highest casting DC in the game. +2 DC is significant once you reach a certain level of play.

I read somewhere another idea. Give Drow 12 + 1/level for free, and enchantements will provide Immunities:

• 1 AP - Disease Immunity
• 2 AP - Disease Immunity and Poison Immunity
• 3 AP - Disease Immunity, Poison Immunity and Fear Immunity
• 4 AP - Disease Immunity, Poison Immunity, Fear Immunity and Blindness Immunity

That would just make them squishy WF with better casting and no healing penalties. IMO that might be a little much.

For Eberron, Drow have different favored classes for male/female (wiz/cleric), so maybe something extra along those lines could replace the SR line.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I want...

True Seeing
Stalwart Pact
Protection From Elements

On my <insert race here>...its not broken because its only a level 5 Cleric Spell. hardly Overpowered...

I don't actually think any of those on there own would be particuarily overpowering when added to a race that is pretty much universally seen as one of the weakest races.

[Meretrix]

Drow don't get those immunities, lets not take the game any further from p2p than we need to. Lets give them the spell resistance they deserve. Since their spell like abilities would not translate well to ddo maybe consider giving them a 32 point build as well.

[hityawithastick]

Drow in Ebberon (correct me if I'm wrong--I personally lean toward FR myself) don't have those spell-like abilities. Faerie fire/darkness etc.

The spell resistance is a good idea. Drow should have SR, that's their innate mysteriousnessness in a nutshell--normal spellcasters can barely even scratch them. Not poison immunity, or disease immunity--drow are not made of iron. Drow also have Darkvision, lightning reflexes, and keen senses...maybe a static stacking racial +2 to Spot and Listen (skills that are rarely helpful anyway?), a Hide/Move Silently enhancement (Drow Stealth I/II/III), or even a bonus on saves against blindness ("Glitterdust? Hah! My dark elvish eyes are too keen!")

I like the tempest PrE idea, but remember that not all drow are insane two-weapon wielding crazy people...just the famous ones.
Maybe a drow assassin line? Drow use poison a lot (a lot) Or yes, even a drow archmage/spell point increase racial.

But /signed to the idea of improving them. My drow wizzy kicks rear from a safe distance, but anything gets too close and he's (X_X) hanging out in a backpack.

[end wall of text]

[Requiro]

I "DDO reality", upgrade SR to 12 +1/level should be the first step.
They have to get something that will compare with other races.
Drows don't get DragonMarks, get bad Enchantements, nad penalty to CON. In my opinon the best will be choice what stat we want to rise (DEX/INT/CHR).
If that changes go live, Drow will be taken mostly by casters just like Half-Orcs will be taken mostly by Barbs and other melee DPS specialist.

[Bacab]

One thing you have to understand...

The stats (28 point with +2 DEX CHR INT and -2CON) that is staying.

Can not really change their stats...

If you want a 32 Point Drow...TR twice...(not fair to others who have done just that).

BUT Turbine could change their enhancements.

That is where I would focus this.