Deciding not to heal

[Carpone]

The last fvs that declared he doesn't heal the party bladesworned and expected me (on sorc) to repair him. I let him die

That is the correct response. You can't heal stupid.

[Nevid]

I am loving my dps favored soul. He can kick butt and is pratically immortal with self healing. The only problem is I can't heal a group well, especially while melee-ing. The question is, am I being unreasonable? Some people seem to take offence that I don't spring to fill up their health bars. I expect my healing capacity to change in the coming levels, but, for future reference, how unreasonable is it to declare oneself not a healer?

At low levels, no one really needs a dedicated healer, you just make things cheaper and easier. Personally, I solod almost everything up to level 9 on my WF FVS. You can too if it bothers you being nothing but a healbot at low levels.

However, you will probably want to learn how to heal and carry some nice healing spells and buff spells, not only for yourself, but for the party as well. Do not pigeon hole yourself into one aspect of the game, the beauty of FVS is versatility, learn to use it and have fun with it.

Once you master healing while meeling, play whatever role you see needs to be filled at the moment. That might mean clearing some trash while the mains take on a boss, then running in and spamming heals. In other words, your role can change within the individual quest.

[Thaminor]

Er, wow. I need to check my threads more often.

Thanks for all the input. To clear it up, I am a once TR (past life fvs healer) WF fvs.

I don't join groups that say they need a healer, thats a good way to get a lot of people angry at you fast.

I don't flat out refuse to heal. If someone is at low HP and not receiving help, I am not going to resolutely not throw them a heal spell. I just try to be realistic about my abilties to keep a group of unfamiliar people alive throughout an entire quest.

[Therigar]

Only if it's a terrible melee build. Given equivalent equipment, other classes have additional damage modifiers that outclass FvS melee DPS:

Barbarians - Frenzied Berserker
Fighter - Haste Boost/Kensei
Rogue - Haste Boost/Sneak Attack
Monk - Faster attacks in wind stance/Ninja Spy for SA
Ranger - Favored Enemy/Tempest (well, so much for alacrity in U7)
Paladin - KotC/Divine Might/Divine Sacrifice
Bard - Warchanter

Favored Soul's longsword enhancements are anemic, and longswords aren't an optimal TWF DPS weapon anyway.

What you are missing is that in the Pug-a-licious world of DDO there are so many people who are not coming close to optimizing their characters that DPS comparisons are meaningless. Yes, for the serious players building quality characters and grouping with the same, limited number of other players DPS discussions are important. But, for the vast majority the entire notion of DPS doesn't even exist.

And, you fall into the DPS discussion trap by not addressing the value of instakill and persistant damage spells. As a TWF, kensai fighter I routinely leave killing to favored souls, clerics, wizards and sorcerers because they are often more proficient at it. My moment to shine comes against the hard target with the death block and blanket immunities where beating them down is the only solution.

And when talking DPS we tend to migrate to that type of encounter. But it only represents the climax point of an adventure with many other encounters along the way. And, in those other encounters it is often times more efficient to just let the caster classes do their thing.

Lastly, the number of poorly built characters is amazingly large. I blame Turbine for its minimally useful default builds which leave players with epic failures for their first toon. And, unless the player comes to the forums and really starts looking for build advice their custom creations reek of failure as well.

That is fine because DDO is forgiving of that -- as is the entire D&D game system. We just call them "flavor" characters and go on thru the dungeon pretty much ignoring them and their contributions. We congratulate them when they level up and we avoid them at end game if we want to do anything more than normal.

[aristarchus1000]

Interesting thread.

I have 3 favored souls, 2 of them capped. When you build a favored soul, you should plan on healing. You can melee a bit at the same time, but the main contribution is going to be healing. Now I understand that it takes practice, but you shouldn't use that as an excuse to not at least try to heal at low levels.

I think what someone mentioned earlier, "I'm not really built for healing but I will try" is a good way to explain it (even though, imo, it is rarely actually true). If somebody gives you a problem about it, go do something else. There are plenty of groups that understands that the most efficient party at low levels include people who can be little self-sufficent (as in, not die in less than 2 seconds), and healbotting is not efficient for most of the content.

That said, be honest about your own abilities and practice. You may need to start out healbotting a little bit until you get a hang of healing and meleeing at the same time.

And use ardor clickies. And I agree with others here, pure WF melee FvS are just as good as anything in the game as healers.

[Zombiekenny]

Interesting thread.

I have 3 favored souls, 2 of them capped. When you build a favored soul, you should plan on healing. You can melee a bit at the same time, but the main contribution is going to be healing. Now I understand that it takes practice, but you shouldn't use that as an excuse to not at least try to heal at low levels.

I think what someone mentioned earlier, "I'm not really built for healing but I will try" is a good way to explain it (even though, imo, it is rarely actually true). If somebody gives you a problem about it, go do something else. There are plenty of groups that understands that the most efficient party at low levels include people who can be little self-sufficent (as in, not die in less than 2 seconds), and healbotting is not efficient for most of the content.

That said, be honest about your own abilities and practice. You may need to start out healbotting a little bit until you get a hang of healing and meleeing at the same time.

And use ardor clickies. And I agree with others here, pure WF melee FvS are just as good as anything in the game as healers.

I honestly didn't bother taking a single cure spell till ~level 10, I didn't group till then either though. Pots are faster/easier/better with WF healing penalties at low levels IMO.

[Khayvan]

I don't flat out refuse to heal. If someone is at low HP and not receiving help, I am not going to resolutely not throw them a heal spell. I just try to be realistic about my abilties to keep a group of unfamiliar people alive throughout an entire quest.

If you've already leveled up a healer, you probably have a good idea of how to heal a group. So you're either not giving yourself enough credit or not giving your build enough credit. WF Souls, and melee Souls in general, can heal with the best of them.

I get the impression you see your toon as a melee who can heal. I see mine as a healer who melee's. I built mine with the full intention of being a primary healer from level 1 on, but I could never stomach the healbot playing style so I've got to be doing something else. This build keeps me active and lets me contribute meaningful DPS to the group, while easily fulfilling it's primary purpose. So if you're thinking your build can't be a group healer just because it's a "melee spec" then you're shooting yourself in the foot.

If you have doubts about your own skill to heal while fighting, you just have to practice. It's entirely possible to heal and fight effectively at the same time in 99% of the game's content, from level 1 to level 20. If that's what you want. But telling people you aren't a healer or will only heal between fights won't make you better, it will only serve to limit your build and likely keep you out of groups.

[Steveohio]

Good comments.
Even the biggest melee built FVS still should have some healing capability and use it.
To do so is a waste of using your strengths.

The costs of actually being able to top shelf heal is very minimal, and even in full out melee builds, you can still pickup some of it.

Personally I start with the Metas(Quicken, Empower Healing, Maximize, Empower) and build out from there.

[Ssmooth]

As long as your not taking the last spot in a group that is looking for a healer you should be ok. Just make sure to be up front about your build/playstyle.

If you don't do that, it's akin to joining a group looking for a beater and joining on your s&b intim that has 26 str.

[Thaminor]

I have retired from the "not healing status" as I now have mass heals. Still, I am suprised at the blatant opposition from some at the idea of someone with a fvs icon not always springing to heal people.

I once joined a group after my desicion to enter the world of healing again. I didn't mention it at first, but when the group had two spaces at first, I mentioned that I was dps, but could also heal. The group quickly filled, and the leader digested my response. I don't remember exactly, but he said something along the lines of "I don't need a dps fvs. Other classes are better built for dps, and you should focus on healing entirely." My response was to say "Oh, I am sorry, I must be in the wrong. I apologize for the egrigous error of the first thing I say not LEAPING to fill your red bar" And dropped.

While he might have a case in some regards, people seem overly touchy on healers. I am now a perfectly capable healer and dps. Not the best, like a radiant servant (although I have seen some of those who only cast positive energy burst and nothing else) or a tripped out greensteel swinging fully raged barbarian. All in all, I think the WF dps fvs is a comendable build, with competitive dps, especially with the array of buffs available. Just because somebody has an icon people usually assosiated with healing doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to go up front and say they can't heal. They are still the most self sufficent dps out there, able to take a hit and deal a respectable one in return.

[nanobot1994]

Heres my look on this:

FvS should heal and melee
If you do more DPS than the rest of the party, and the total party DPS will suffer if you stop hitting stuff and healing the gimps, DONT heal...

FvS should only melee
If the total party DPS suffers by you letting the other melee die in-fights, then quit being so close-minded and heal.

FvS should only heal
Read point 1.

Basically, this aims to get xyz killed as quickly and efficiently as possible. If the other melee DPS is geared to teeth in epic gear then heal them. A similarly geared, and similarly experienced dedicated melee will out-DPS a FvS of equal ability, and some of it goes into the buffing/healing aspect of the class.

Do what you can to get the quest done, if it takes letting others die and whine, do it. My cleric/monk follows this rule exclusively, if its a great PuG drop back, get the healing gear-set on, and just heal. If its a decent PuG, whack away as usual, just make sure you watch the HP bars. If its a crappy PuG (not as usual as people make it seem) just melee, and make sure to keep an eye on the chat box (see the extent of the whining, keeps the monotony of quests to a minimum )