Where's the HO Tempest threads?

[Aerendil]

I'd have thought they'd be quite popular.
There's HO Barb and Fighter threads of course, and even the Bards and FVS are talking about them... yet no Ranger threads.

Curious about everyone's thoughts.

A Ranger 20 (Temp 3) or Ranger 18 (Temp 3) / Fighter 2 combo could be quite nice.
No AC of course, but super to-hit and damage - which is what you want in epics these days anyways.

[TheDearLeader]

OH!.. Half-Orc.

I thought we were talking about a fine elven ranger looking for a good time.

[Aerendil]

OH!.. Half-Orc.

I thought we were talking about a fine elven ranger looking for a good time.

Haha. Yeah, Half-Orc, sorry. I'm generally averse to using acronyms or short-forms, but every other thread I've come across has dubbed them "HO". Just going with the general consensus


Should I propose we dub the Half-Orc Tempest "HOT"?
/snicker

Seriously, though. Very possible 50+ STR endgame; PA enhancements; etc.
Could be a disgusting Tempest dps Ranger.

[grodon9999]

Haha. Yeah, Half-Orc, sorry. I'm generally averse to using acronyms or short-forms, but every other thread I've come across has dubbed them "HO". Just going with the general consensus


Should I propose we dub the Half-Orc Tempest "HOT"?
/snicker

Seriously, though. Very possible 50+ STR endgame; PA enhancements; etc.
Could be a disgusting Tempest dps Ranger.

Using AO's DPS calc and the gear I CURRENTLY HAVE (not every piece of raid-loot and epic-gear in existence that most builds use) my Exploiter has a 439 DPS in a 5-minute fighter against a favored enemy using dual lightnings (okay, I don't have the second one finished yet, 3 scales away but I digress . . .). That's at 44 STR which I can sustain if I include Airship buffs.

A 48 STR 18/2 Horc Ranger/Fighter with 8 Power attack and the same gear would have a DPS of . . .439. The loss of the rogue level hurts in the "fantasy-land spread-sheet situations" where you get 100% Sneak attack. Horc Exploiter would be 461 but would lose a feat (Combat Expertise is first to go) and lack all the skills and stuff that make the Exploiter the ubber-versatile build that it is.

If you're building a high-DPS toon, which if you're thinking about half-orc you probably are, ranger isn't the best choice in the current state of the game. Rangers are best at being ubber-versatile and I don't see much synergy between that and the ubber-death-machine that is the half-orc.

My fighter on the other hand . . .

[Aerendil]

^^ Hmm, interesting about the dps calculator. I'd imagine it's somewhat accurate, however, if you weigh up d6+3 sneak dice vs. +3 (PA3) +2 (2 starting str higher than any other toon +2 str enhancements). Tends to weigh out evenly.

The HO Rgr18/Ftr1/Rog1 is tempting as well, so I'm glad you threw that into the calculations. Good to know.
As for versatility, AC doesn't seem to important at end-game, particularly in epics. However, having a 50ish str and stunning blow with dual weighted weapons.... that's a different story altogether.

The HO Fighter, as you said, would be an absolutely disgusting monster with the HO Str enhancements + Ftr Str enhancements + Kensai power surge.... but Fighters tend to be a 1-trick pony.

Even giving up AC via /Monk and Combat Expertise, a Ranger is still pretty versatile if played properly. Great stealth; great ranged damage (hmm, Half-Orc Arcane Archer? ); healing capabilities via SP and wands; great buffs; etc.
There's just something about Ranger that tends to draw me over a Fighter. /shrug

[grodon9999]

^^ Hmm, interesting about the dps calculator. I'd imagine it's somewhat accurate, however, if you weigh up d6+3 sneak dice vs. +3 (PA3) +2 (2 starting str higher than any other toon +2 str enhancements). Tends to weigh out evenly.

The HO Rgr18/Ftr1/Rog1 is tempting as well, so I'm glad you threw that into the calculations. Good to know.
As for versatility, AC doesn't seem to important at end-game, particularly in epics. However, having a 50ish str and stunning blow with dual weighted weapons.... that's a different story altogether.

The HO Fighter, as you said, would be an absolutely disgusting monster with the HO Str enhancements + Ftr Str enhancements + Kensai power surge.... but Fighters tend to be a 1-trick pony.

Even giving up AC via /Monk and Combat Expertise, a Ranger is still pretty versatile if played properly. Great stealth; great ranged damage (hmm, Half-Orc Arcane Archer? ); healing capabilities via SP and wands; great buffs; etc.
There's just something about Ranger that tends to draw me over a Fighter. /shrug

You mention dual-weighted weapons, not sure Horc Ranger is the best stunner. My dorf-monster stuns nearly anything he hits with the APs I've invested in stunning-blow (42 DC without power-surge). An Horc-ranger will be behind in this and feat-starve to the point where taking stunning blow might not be a viable option.

If you're just relying on the stunning-procs does it make a difference what race you pick? My Exploiter is okay right now with his dual-weighted hammers, changing race wouldn't make a like of difference.

I know what you're saying, I'm a rabid ranger-fanboy but having a capped monster-build has opened my eyes to some of the short-comings of the class.

[Eladiun]

OH!.. Half-Orc.

I thought we were talking about a fine elven ranger looking for a good time.

Do I get a big red A on my dragontouched if I'm a HO ranger?

[Nevid]

I thought about it, but I do not see the real benefit over dwarf or human for an exploiter build. Dwarf gets bonueses to con, axe attack, and axe damage, plus dwarven axe for free. Human gets an extra feat to grab those Kopesh's. Half-orc it seems is gonna have to drop combat expertise to take (if I TR) the mineral II dwarven axes I have. From what i have read, the half-orc enhancement line seems to be set up for two handed fighting not two weapon fighting.

Maybe the half-orc will be better for the Monster build, with the extra fighter feats?

[grodon9999]

I thought about it, but I do not see the real benefit over dwarf or human for an exploiter build. Dwarf gets bonueses to con, axe attack, and axe damage, plus dwarven axe for free. Human gets an extra feat to grab those Kopesh's. Half-orc it seems is gonna have to drop combat expertise to take (if I TR) the mineral II dwarven axes I have. From what i have read, the half-orc enhancement line seems to be set up for two handed fighting not two weapon fighting.

Maybe the half-orc will be better for the Monster build, with the extra fighter feats?

My "Monster" is going to be a Horc next life. The question is if he'll be a 12/6/2, an 18/2, or forget about Defense all together and go for the Blitz build. The DPS will be break 500 with attainable gear.

What do Horcs lose, 2 points INT and 2 CHR?

[Aerendil]

What do Horcs lose, 2 points INT and 2 CHR?

Yep.

[Consumer]

My "Monster" is going to be a Horc next life. The question is if he'll be a 12/6/2, an 18/2, or forget about Defense all together and go for the Blitz build. The DPS will be break 500 with attainable gear.

What do Horcs lose, 2 points INT and 2 CHR?

Ideally you would go pure Fighter, you would have more DPS, it would be less situational (2 Rogue) and it could be sustained for longer. You would be activating less boosts per minute and would have more feats available.

I have a build up on the other forum if your registered there. (3 builds infact)

[grodon9999]

Yep.

The Difference in power between a Horc Monster and an 18/2 or Pure is close with the two FEs (monster still does a few less points of DPS) according to AO's calc. The big difference will be if the hidden tempest alacrity gets fixed or not.

[grodon9999]

Ideally you would go pure Fighter, you would have more DPS, it would be less situational (2 Rogue) and it could be sustained for longer. You would be activating less boosts per minute and would have more feats available.

I have a build up on the other forum if your registered there. (3 builds infact)

My Monster is a baby right now though and just hit cap last week. He's got a Mineral II khopesh and a crappy ToD ring for +3 EXC STR, that's it regarding gear or anything like that. I'll need months to get him all Green-Steeled and stuff. By the time I'm ready to TR him Horc will probably be past it's first nerf!

Has the character planner been updated with the Horc and Helf stuff yet?

[Consumer]

Has the character planner been updated with the Horc and Helf stuff yet?

Don't think so, I don't use it for my builds any more though.

[Nevid]

By the time I'm ready to TR him Horc will probably be past it's first nerf!

That would be funny if it wasn't so likely to happen!!!