THF Line - Worth It?

[Goldeneye]

Whats quests other than shroud and dragon can you really just stand in one spot? Honestly, I can't really think of any, or at least not any where the extra DPS is going to matter much.

As stated earlier - give some bloody examples - because other than shroud there are very few raids where you can do this. Until then, your 'point' is meaningless..

Here are a few places where auto-attack helps people avoid carpal tunnel:

• Vault of Night 3: Marut
• Vault of Night 6: Velah
• Shroud Part 1: Portals
• Shroud Part 4: Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Shroud Part 5: Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Vision of Destruction: Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Tower of Despair: Judge - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Tower of Despair: Jailer - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Tower of Despair: Suluu - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Tower of Despair: Horoth - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Stealer of Souls
• Epic Von1: First red name
• Epic Von1: Boss
• Epic Von4: Golem
• Mindsunder Crystal
• Dreaming Dark boss
• Running w/ the Devils: first red name
• Genesis Point: Boss
• Sins: Boss
• Amrath Explorer: Devil Named
• Amrath Explorer: Golem Named
• Into the Deep: Crystals
• Into the Deep: Mutant
• Into the Deep: Devil
• Last Stand: Boss
• Claw of Vulkoor: Skeleton

There are plenty. I'm not even mentioning anything that isn't near end-game

I agree that the THF feats aren't the best,
though I don't think that they are completely useless

[Samadhi]

Here are a few places where auto-attack helps people avoid carpal tunnel:

• Vault of Night 3: Marut who runs this on epic? at level I am never standing still fighting him; stun is too dangerous
• Vault of Night 6: Velah one of the two examples i listed
• Shroud Part 1: Portals the other example i listed
• Shroud Part 4: Stand in 1 place. Beat boss. the other example i listed
• Shroud Part 5: Stand in 1 place. Beat boss. the other example i listed
• Vision of Destruction: Stand in 1 place. Beat boss. sully moves too much - if you stand in one place you are going to get cursed eventually - and you certainly cant go afk here
• Tower of Despair: Judge - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss. you are joking right?
• Tower of Despair: Jailer - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss. ditto - healers must love u...
• Tower of Despair: Suluu - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss. we usually run on hard (chest bugged) or speed run so i am honestly not that familiar with fighting sully here
• Tower of Despair: Horoth - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss. depends on what type of tank you are using - but this can sometimes be true, depending
• Stealer of Souls who runs this more than once per toon?
• Epic Von1: First red name most epics i know a caster solo's then just shouts in guildchat when they are rdy for pikers to come loot the chest - so irrelevant
• Epic Von1: Boss ditto
• Epic Von4: Golem ditto
• Mindsunder Crystal not sure where u r referring to here
• Dreaming Dark boss ROFL
• Running w/ the Devils: first red name do you really consider this endgame? its over 2 yrs old, not a raid and has no named loot
• Genesis Point: Boss u must fight a different boss than i typically do
• Sins: Boss again u must fight a different boss than i usually do
• Amrath Explorer: Devil Named encounter areas are not endgame nor do i know anyone that messes with rares
• Amrath Explorer: Golem Named encounter areas are not endgame nor do i know anyone that messes with rares
• Into the Deep: Crystals havent messed with these quests yet, so you might be right, but since your track record so far is abysmal, i will wait for others to comment
• Into the Deep: Mutant ditto
• Into the Deep: Devil ditto
• Last Stand: Boss ok fair enough
• Claw of Vulkoor: Skeleton not sure how you do claw but we dont fight a skeleton

There are plenty. I'm not even mentioning anything that isn't near end-game

I agree that the THF feats aren't the best,
though I don't think that they are completely useless

I almost thinking you are just messing with me now - but responses in italics

[Anthios888]

Here are a few places where auto-attack helps people avoid carpal tunnel:

• Vault of Night 3: Marut
• Vault of Night 6: Velah
• Shroud Part 1: Portals
• Shroud Part 4: Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Shroud Part 5: Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Vision of Destruction: Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Tower of Despair: Judge - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Tower of Despair: Jailer - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Tower of Despair: Suluu - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Tower of Despair: Horoth - Stand in 1 place. Beat boss.
• Stealer of Souls
• Epic Von1: First red name
• Epic Von1: Boss
• Epic Von4: Golem
• Mindsunder Crystal
• Dreaming Dark boss
• Running w/ the Devils: first red name
• Genesis Point: Boss
• Sins: Boss
• Amrath Explorer: Devil Named
• Amrath Explorer: Golem Named
• Into the Deep: Crystals
• Into the Deep: Mutant
• Into the Deep: Devil
• Last Stand: Boss
• Claw of Vulkoor: Skeleton

There are plenty. I'm not even mentioning anything that isn't near end-game

I agree that the THF feats aren't the best,
though I don't think that they are completely useless

This is a very nice list and I always appreciate people trying to make factual arguments. The new upgrades to two handed fighting are finally a nice step in the right direction to make two handed fighting feats worth taking on a 2HF build. With the exception of a few builds like healers with 2-handers, I will consider these essential for all DPS builds planning to use this fighting style. If nothing else, the to-hit advantages for not moving are increasingly relevent in DDO's endgame.

[lord_of_rage]

I almost thinking you are just messing with me now - but responses in italics

Wow so you pass up the chance to pull rings/+4tomes out of the sulu chest???? Why in the world would you run TOD if you arnt getting the extra chest? Id rather get a shot at rings and tomes every time than just on my 20 runs.

I guess we do things differently on Khyber. Goldeneye's list is dead on.

VOD Sulu really doesnt move that much. You pull him into a corner and beat on him. If you get cursed you get cursed. Thats what pots are for. And WF melees tanking sulu. We use arcanes for main heals there. Its a good example. Regardless of if it doesnt meet your approval.

The Judge we pull and beat on him. He really doesnt move that much.
The Jailer same thing. Though we typically run norm for the above mentioned chest you fail to get.It most likely makes a difference.
Horoth Again WF or high hp melee. IE barbs or Kensi fighters. They stand still with a dedicated healer and hold aggro while the rest kill sulu.

Von1 Not irrelevant. We dont do it the way you do.

You kinda killed your credibility when you said you run TOD on hard and dont bother with the sulu chest. Seeing as his chest doesnt currently drop on hard and elite. His list is valid.

[Anthios888]

Wow so you pass up the chance to pull rings/+4tomes out of the sulu chest???? Why in the world would you run TOD if you arnt getting the extra chest? Id rather get a shot at rings and tomes every time than just on my 20 runs.

I completely agree with the rest of your post, but I'd like to add that elite TOD without Suulo is a better chance for tomes and rings than normal+chest. That second chest does have a chance for tomes, but it is a miniscule one. Generally, many people like to get their rings and be done with it -- and there's little question that elite is the way to get rings. On a personal level, I also find elite much more interesting and challenging.

Now, Samadhi was talking about hard, so you might be right there, but really... to each his own.

[Junts]

I almost thinking you are just messing with me now - but responses in italics

About the only thing I can think seeing your commentary is

1: You have a pretty distorted view of what epics people run

and

2: You have enough experience at DDO to know that there's a lot of different ways to run quests, and also enough to know that there might be reasons to do them in ways besides the ones you do consistently. I'd give you a list of resons to run some of those quests differently, but I imagine you'd just respond with how you don't care about epic and/or don't have the time to run that **** anyway, so that's probably a waste.

People who do care and/or have time have a lot of incentive to run things in more than one way, to say nothing of stuff like tod (the +4 tome chance from the suulo chest gives you the same chance for tomes as you have from the horoth chest alone on elite .. I always kill suulo in my normal runs for exactly that reason!).

You're a knowlegable enoguh player to not be closeminded about htis. Right -now-, on live, if you don't twitch regularly and at least 2/3 of hte time when you are trying to do it, you're better off with the thf feat chain.

[Samadhi]

...

Edit: not even bothering - have fun

Wow so you pass up the chance to pull rings/+4tomes out of the sulu chest???? Why in the world would you run TOD if you arnt getting the extra chest? Id rather get a shot at rings and tomes every time than just on my 20 runs.


You kinda killed your credibility when you said you run TOD on hard and dont bother with the sulu chest. Seeing as his chest doesnt currently drop on hard and elite. His list is valid.

Killed my credibility? I have killed Sully on Norm enough to know that, as Anthios said, the drop rate on tomes for Sully's chest is just miniscule. Not worth the effort anymore - especially when Hard gives a noticeably better drop rate on rings. (would love to run on E for the same reason but that is not an option). Irregardless, this is a complete sideline to the actual discussion, so not going to comment further on it.



@ Anthios and back to topic
Do you agree with some of the other posters that you don't feel the need to move much in many of those examples? I mean - I thought part 1 Tower, or even VOD although I rarely do those anymore, were pretty clear cut examples of places you *could* just stay in one place - but it is pretty freaking detrimental to do so. i.e. I thought these were great examples of places THF-ing feats would be most necessary to boost DPS - but are just worthless due to the amount of time any sane person is going to spend moving.

[Anthios888]

@ Anthios and back to topic
Do you agree with some of the other posters that you don't feel the need to move much in many of those examples? I mean - I thought part 1 Tower, or even VOD although I rarely do those anymore, were pretty clear cut examples of places you *could* just stay in one place - but it is pretty freaking detrimental to do so. i.e. I thought these were great examples of places THF-ing feats would be most necessary to boost DPS - but are just worthless due to the amount of time any sane person is going to spend moving.

Even in fights where you need to move some to adjust your position, the feats are still useful because adjusting isn't all the time. "Twitch" means moving constantly to break your attack chain. The result is much lower to-hit (and losing out on your better attacks later in your progression).

It's the same as a 2wfer. You might move some, but there's plenty of times that your animation goes beyond the second attack. Just pay attention to your gaming some time and you will realize that yes, you move, but not all the time. Any time you go beyond that first two attacks, those feats will be doing their job.

Two handed fighting now gives a pretty nice incresae to glancing blows. If you're sporting good gear like tempest set, ravager set, destruction, red dragonscale armor, or if you have a class-based bonus like frenzied berzerker or knight of the chalice (and its set bonus), the extra dice from that will be really nice.

I haven't tested this enough to know exactly how it compares to twitch. But for me, I'm just getting tired of the twitch thing.

[IronClan]

I find im standing still often enough to have glancing blows go off. Im not one of those annoying guys constandtly trying to flank a mob. I run up and grab its attn and stand there and swing usually. Even on my twf'rs. Guess im lazy

me too, sometimes, but a lot of times I flank out of habit, and my Tank has a 1 rogue splash for UMD so might as well get that 1d6 sneak attack. I agree with Lego, it is not dificult at all to swing move stop swing, move stop swing,... in fact it's second nature on anything that takes more than a couple swings.. When I see a spell coming I move while swinging and stop swing some more, mob jumps backward, run forward swinging, stop and swing some more.

I don't twitch because frankly it's incredibly annoying to do regardless of the swing speed increase. That and some day they will fix (yes I said fix) it and carpel tunnel syndrome would be my only reward for abusing a game mechanic just to increase DPS some and try to impress the small number of players in any given group that has any idea why you're jerking around like a maniac.