Half-elf: why no Aerenal / Valenar Melee lines

[Eladiun]

i Will Be Playing Half-elves Come Update 7, Because If I Wanted To Experience Action And Adventure As A Human I Would Walk Out Side And Punch A Random Stranger.

+1 Rofl

[Diyon]

Imho a choice of your personal Halfelf being more on the elven or more on the human side, most probably depending on where he was raised - fluff-wise, should be possible. Choosing one stronger elvish enhancement locks out another stronger human enhancement.

For example either get Healing Amp enhancements from the human side, or get the weapon enhancements from the elven side.



At the moments Halfelfs are on the weak side.

Once again, eberron half elves are typically different than your normal D&D half elves. Most half elves in eberron have half elf parents. So they are generally raised by half elves.

[SneakThief]

Imho a choice of your personal Halfelf being more on the elven or more on the human side, most probably depending on where he was raised - fluff-wise, should be possible. Choosing one stronger elvish enhancement locks out another stronger human enhancement.

For example either get Healing Amp enhancements from the human side, or get the weapon enhancements from the elven side.

My guess is that this is because Half-Elves are considered their own independent race in eberron, not just random human/elf crossings. They have their own cultures and what not, and since these enhancements are culturally based on different elf cultural groups it kind of makes since that half elves don't get them, since they are part of an entirely different cultural group.

Once again, eberron half elves are typically different than your normal D&D half elves. Most half elves in eberron have half elf parents. So they are generally raised by half elves.

Yes ... but at some point, some where, an elf and a human got together and .... well ... there was this ... and a basketball ... and some flowers ... and a parakeet ... nevermind ...

Whether that was your great great great great grandparents or your mom & dad is really up to you ... by the books, halfelf is a combination of human/elf in any proportion. It would make sense to allow the user to choose enhancements that lean one way or the other ... and lock out something from the other side in turn.

[Diyon]

Yes ... but at some point, some where, an elf and a human got together and .... well ... there was this ... and a basketball ... and some flowers ... and a parakeet ... nevermind ...

Whether that was your great great great great grandparents or your mom & dad is really up to you ... by the books, halfelf is a combination of human/elf in any proportion. It would make sense to allow the user to choose enhancements that lean one way or the other ... and lock out something from the other side in turn.

I was more getting at the fact that the weapon enhancements have less to do with being an elf than it does being a part of elven culture. Similarly, the human healing amp enhancements everything to do with actually being human, and nothing to do with being a part of human culture. The elven dex enhancements likewise have nothing to do with culture or upbringing.

[jkm]

khorovar should get a melee line, but it should be something different (like adding minor shock/shock/shocking burst) if you have the first tier of the dragonmark.

[Entelech]

Okay...a brief overview of Eberron Half-Elves, and Elven geopolitics:

Elves came from the continent of Aerenal (okay...originally from Xen'drik, but that was LONG ago)

The continent of Aerenal is 99%+ pure Elves, split between two cultural groups: the Aereni and the Valenar.

The Aereni live in the jungles and forests, build cities, and are more magically sophisticated. The Valenar live on the plains and savannas, raise horses, and are semi-nomadic.

Thus, the two different elven cultural weapons.

The Aerenal elves have been emigrating from Aerenal to Khorvaire for a long time now, and assimilating into the human society there. Mostly, this is due to a desire for social mobility, since the Aerenal are ruled by their ancestors, the Undying Court.

A contingent of Valenar also moved to Khorvaire, they had hired out as mercenaries. After a complex series of events, they wound up claiming the area they were hired to capture, and have settled there permanently. This group is relatively isolationistic and clannish, however. They avoid even diplomatic contact with humans, much less interspecies romance. It will likely be several generations before Half Elves arise in any numbers from this group.

Thus.

Almost all Half Elves are, culturally, human. They live within the dominant Galifar/Khorvaire/Five Kingdoms/whatever you want to call it/Human culture as a fully-accepted minority.

Aerenal has no Half Elves to speak of, because humans are not permitted anywhere on the continent except in the foreign quearters of a couple large port cities. A Half Elf raised among the Aereni would be seen as something shameful and outcast. Or, more likely, the child's parents would leave Aerenal for Khorvaire to avoid the social stigma.

Valenar has no Half Elves to speak of, because they're more likely to shoot a stray human than to cuddle it.

Therefore:

Half Elves get the same cultural weapons as the Humans do. None.

[Robi3.0]

Yes ... but at some point, some where, an elf and a human got together and .... well ... there was this ... and a basketball ... and some flowers ... and a parakeet ... nevermind ...

Whether that was your great great great great grandparents or your mom & dad is really up to you ... by the books, halfelf is a combination of human/elf in any proportion. It would make sense to allow the user to choose enhancements that lean one way or the other ... and lock out something from the other side in turn.

Yes in the past elves and humans got together and made babies that eventually became Half-elves, but this accrued so very long ago that it is really not important anymore . In fact in Races of Eberron it states that "For over two thousand years Half-elves of Khorvaire have possessed a culture and Society of their own."

In short I am not an anthropologist, but I am pretty sure two thousand + years is enough time to erase a certain type of cultural heritage, especially when that heritage was purposely substituted for a new and unique culture.

[Entelech]

On a more game-mechanics level, I'd actually like to see something other than a "get married to a weapon" enhancement associated with the Dilettantes. That's just...unimaginative.

For example, I'd like to see an enhancement for Rogue Dilettantes that grants Trap Sense, and counts as the Trapsmithing prereq.

Or being able to take the first tier of Cleric/FvS Life Magic.

Or Light, Medium and Heavy Armor Proficiency enhancements for the Fighter Dilettante.

For Paladins...maybe Immunity to Disease?

Also, there ought to be a Lightning and Sonic damage enhancement line associated with the Dragonmark of Storms, that stacks with the Wizard and Sorcerer lines.

[Kza]

Good idea! /signed

[SneakThief]

In fact in Races of Eberron it states that "For over two thousand years Half-elves of Khorvaire have possessed a culture and Society of their own."

In short I am not an anthropologist, but I am pretty sure two thousand + years is enough time to erase a certain type of cultural heritage, especially when that heritage was purposely substituted for a new and unique culture.

Understood ... but what if you dont want to be one of those?

[Modinator0]

Because half elves are in no way finished. I expect it to be U9 before half elves are finished.

When do you expect Drow will be finished?

[Deaths_ward]

Understood ... but what if you dont want to be one of those?

Then maybe you're screwed.

[prettychaos]

on the point of history lessions humans and elfs breeding is against the rules set out by the 12 dragonmarked houses as dragonmarked bloodlines mixed breeding (even same race but different houses) has chance for creating abberant dragonmarks, as such half elfs are breed from half elf parents since as someone mentioned about 2000 years ago and very rarely would elfs and humans risk annoying the 12 for a bit of happy time. so this is why i'm assuming they have avoided the elf martial feats as while they would have the natural abilities from both races adaptability and penchant for dexterity, they don't have the cultural background due to being their own race.

you say this is a role playing reason but its pretty much trying to please wizards of the coast and not seriously deviate from the source material in terms of solid background info.

[SneakThief]

on the point of history lessions humans and elfs breeding is against the rules set out by the 12 dragonmarked houses as dragonmarked bloodlines mixed breeding (even same race but different houses) has chance for creating abberant dragonmarks, as such half elfs are breed from half elf parents since as someone mentioned about 2000 years ago and very rarely would elfs and humans risk annoying the 12 for a bit of happy time. so this is why i'm assuming they have avoided the elf martial feats as while they would have the natural abilities from both races adaptability and penchant for dexterity, they don't have the cultural background due to being their own race.

you say this is a role playing reason but its pretty much trying to please wizards of the coast and not seriously deviate from the source material in terms of solid background info.

Much better logic here. +1

[Entelech]

If you have a known ancestor who had a Dragonmark, you are kept track of by your House, and you can choose to go by the surname of your House. Even if you don't manifest a Dragonmark yourself.

Thus, quite a few Half Elves would have "Bob Smith d'Lyrandar" on their drivers licenses, and many would just go by "Bob d'Lyrandar".

There are significant advantages to doing so, and no major drawbacks. So, honestly, if you're in a singles bar in Sharn, there's really not a big chance of a kid with an Aberrant Mark coming about.

And, honestly, even if Half Elves stick with other Half Elves, if a d'Lyrandar and a d'Medani got busy, you could still end up with a mixed Aberrant Dragonmark in the offspring.

Mind you, if you ARE from a Dragonmarked House, you do take it extremely seriously, since an Aberrant Mark is a VERY BAD THING.

[Entelech]

There ARE still new Elf / Human hybrids being created, since there are still Elves who leave the rather structured and static Aerenal society occasionally. But the preponderance of Half Elves in the setting are the children of Half Elf parents.

You cannot build a society and a culture from one person, though. So, regardless of when your parent came to Khorvaire, you're generally assumed to have been culturally assimilated into human society.

[Blktom]

Technically, Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are sterile. But that is Base 3.5 D&D... if it is different in Ebberron it is a special Ebberron thing then.

I am personally really excited to see how Half-Elves work in DDO because I think with the Enhancments, they will be more playable than in table top. Normally in table top, your using Half-Elf for a social Rogue or a Bard. Problem was you compaired your build to a Human or a Elf and found the Half-Elf lacking. To be frank, they /should/ just give them all the Elf enahncments or Human enhancments, depending on what they choose. Infact, it should be an option at character creation or handle it like the Monk's Light and Dark side choice.

I do know this... they should always count for Arcane Archer no matter what heritage they choose.

[Natashaelle]

Okay...a brief overview of Eberron Half-Elves, and Elven geopolitics: <SNIP>

All very well, but tbh I don't care.

It *still* feels unnatural to me that half-elves have no access at all to these weapon lines...

[r3dl4nce]

All the lore talking is good. But we are not in pen&paper. Turbine MUST GIVE some reason to choose half-elf. Otherwise people will still be human or elf. Removing the melee weapon lines give less reasons to take half-elf, and people will choose human with khopesh.

[wolflordnexus]

All the lore talking is good. But we are not in pen&paper. Turbine MUST GIVE some reason to choose half-elf. Otherwise people will still be human or elf. Removing the melee weapon lines give less reasons to take half-elf, and people will choose human with khopesh.

I have to dis agree weapon enhancements are pretty much the only reason to go elf now they could give them a different line but I do agree something needs to be done to improve half elves no ones going to pay for the race if it doesn't do anything special.