Blur and Displacement = ugly

[AyumiAmakusa]

I think that's what he is suggesting, and I agree. The game should be as accessible as possible for those with simulator sickness and color-blindness.

Heck, even some members of the Turbine team have had issues with simulator sickness- Tolero, IIRC...

You are correct, Tolero indeed suffers from Simulator Sickness.

[Meretrix]

Maybe we should ground all flights and stop flying airplanes since some people suffer from motion sickness!!

[Cauthey]

i ilke the blur displace effects am i the only one ?

No, I dig them too. The sound effect when it's cast is cool, too!

[Darkrok]

I think that's what he is suggesting, and I agree. The game should be as accessible as possible for those with simulator sickness and color-blindness.

Heck, even some members of the Turbine team have had issues with simulator sickness- Tolero, IIRC...

They should have a low-res and a high-res graphical option and make the low-res simulator sickness-friendly.

[Iwinbyrollup]

Maybe we should ground all flights and stop flying airplanes since some people suffer from motion sickness!!

Now you're being silly.

We're talking about a PURELY AESTHETIC change, and you're comparing it to the most common and convenient means of long distance travel. What benefit does this particular change bring to the game? Are new players going to get Blur or Displacement and think, "Wow, THIS is a game that I really want to keep playing?" Personally, I'd say it's more likely that new players would get the spell, think, "Wow, I feel like I'm going to vomit!" and either request the spell effects are changed, request that they don't get the buff (and quit playing whenever they do), or just all around quit playing.

All for a completely unnecessary aesthetic change? Why make the change in the first place?

[~UltimateSuperman]

I like the blur and displacement effects you worked in PhotoShop. That is almost how I perceive them as well, except I imagine another displaced image on the left side. Nice work. +1 for the effort.

[Cauthey]

How about leave the spell effects as they are now by default, and then have a gameplay option that you can enable if you like the Simulation Sickness enhanced version of Blur and Displacement?

[Meretrix]

Now you're being silly.

We're talking about a PURELY AESTHETIC change, and you're comparing it to the most common and convenient means of long distance travel. What benefit does this particular change bring to the game? Are new players going to get Blur or Displacement and think, "Wow, THIS is a game that I really want to keep playing?" Personally, I'd say it's more likely that new players would get the spell, think, "Wow, I feel like I'm going to vomit!" and either request the spell effects are changed, request that they don't get the buff (and quit playing whenever they do), or just all around quit playing.

All for a completely unnecessary aesthetic change? Why make the change in the first place?

I'm not being silly, this is exactly the sort of reasoning you are promoting, by catering to the afflicted at the expense of the healthy. I'm not trying to be rude or insensitive but please realize that not all of us suffer from this condition and would like our games as realistic and intense as possible.
And now you are comparing new players to those of you who suffer from simulator sickness, but yes, new players will see the effects and be impressed with the realism. the spells are blur and displacement, is it so wrong of me to suggest they blur and displace you?
Like I said before, the pics I posted are very close up and may seem a bit disorienting but in-game would look much less distracting, maybe Ill post some more at a higher view to better illustrate my concept.

It has already been suggested that you can always turn your graphics down, or a "sickness-friendly" option could always be introduced if it's that much of an issue.

I posted this in hopes a dev could have a look at it and maybe like the idea, not to get into an argument with anyone.

[Iwinbyrollup]

And anyway, the current Blur animation actually makes it feasible that a mob might miss when attacking that person (there's a bit of a fog about them). The blur effect that you've drawn, on the other hand, doesn't actually confuse the location of the player--it just disrupts the image of the player. I've been wearing glasses since I was 2 and I have absolutely atrocious vision; I can still navigate and interact with people and objects with ease without glasses because the world only looks roughly like a much worse version of what you've created there. I just can't identify people I know until they talk.

A mob fighting a raid group of characters blurred that way would probably just think he needs to get his eyes checked.

That Displacement would work better.

[eonfreon]

It's funny. With your photoshop version it really reminds me what a high level of suspension of disbelief the spells entail.

Perhaps because it's closer up and gives me more time to examine it. In game the blur or displacement effect is inconsequential to me, it's just there to remind me that an ally has it and when the effect disappears I know I need to re-apply it.

Looking at your version reminds me what an unbelievable effect "blur" especially has. There is no way that I can visualize myself having a hard time hitting something that is "blurred" like in the photo-shop version. Maybe a little bit on the "displaced" one, but only a bit, and only if I envision someone using defensive manuevers as well as being displaced.

Just seems funny to me that the "more realistic" version just makes me realize how "unrealistic" the effect really is, especially the Blur effect.

[Iwinbyrollup]

I'm not being silly, this is exactly the sort of reasoning you are promoting, by catering to the afflicted at the expense of the healthy. I'm not trying to be rude or insensitive but please realize that not all of us suffer from this condition and would like our games as realistic and intense as possible.

You're talking about realism, but what realism does this add that the current foggy spell animation lacks? They're both magic. Why is your proposed animation more realistic?

As I've already said, from a realistic perspective, yours is less likely to have the desired effect than the one currently in game. Given my experience in dealing with a world that is on occasion significantly more blurred in a way that you have animated the Blur spell, I can say that it wouldn't have an effect similar to that given by the Blur spell (20% miss chance). In other words, it's more realistic to imagine that mobs would have difficulty hitting you when there's a fog that obscures you in some way than it is to imagine that mobs would have difficulty hitting you because they can't see your facial details. And neither is that realistic, because they're ultimately both spell effects--as the poster above me as mentioned, it wouldn't be difficult to hit someone with that effect OR with the current effect.

[KKDragonLord]

I wouldnt mind if the devs worked on effects such as these for NEW SPELLS instead of wasting their time with old ones.

[Meretrix]

You're talking about realism, but what realism does this add that the current foggy spell animation lacks? They're both magic. Why is your proposed animation more realistic?

As I've already said, from a realistic perspective, yours is less likely to have the desired effect than the one currently in game. Given my experience in dealing with a world that is on occasion significantly more blurred in a way that you have animated the Blur spell, I can say that it wouldn't have an effect similar to that given by the Blur spell (20% miss chance). In other words, it's more realistic to imagine that mobs would have difficulty hitting you when there's a fog that obscures you in some way than it is to imagine that mobs would have difficulty hitting you because they can't see your facial details. And neither is that realistic, because they're ultimately both spell effects--as the poster above me as mentioned, it wouldn't be difficult to hit someone with that effect OR with the current effect.

Because this is Dungeons and Dragons and it has an established system of rules. DDO is a visual representation of that and therefore the closer it emulates that system the more realistic it is. That is how I use the term "realistic" in this context anyway...

Blur
The subject’s outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering. This distortion grants the subject concealment (20% miss chance).

Displacement
The subject of this spell appears to be about 2 feet away from its true location. The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. However, unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally. True seeing reveals its true location.

Even my interpretations are not exact but a representation of what those spells do, a closer representation then what is currently implemented. Nowhere is the spell description does it mention white fog surrounding the target.

[Alabore]

I hope your'e not suggesting we limit the realism or graphics of video games because some people get sick.

To be quite frank, yes.
I think we should draw a line somewhere, so a game stays playable.

I agree some spell effects look uninspiring, but I really like the fact they didn't overdo most of them.
NWN2 was pretty disorienting: your casters quickly became engulfed in buff balls, and you couldn't even see them any more.
Player base created mods to tone the buff effects down.

Your edits look great; I see your point.
Also, they made me dizzy - and as far as I know, I don't really suffer from sim sickness.
So, no, we should be careful before implementing some spell effects to the letter.
Not just for the sake of realism. But for the sake of playability.

Weighing realism against playability is one of the biggest issues in gaming industry, so as to convey a convincing in-game portrayal of simulated action, without making the learning curve so steep only very dedicated players, or people with actual expertise, can apply.

[eonfreon]

I'm not being silly, this is exactly the sort of reasoning you are promoting, by catering to the afflicted at the expense of the healthy. I'm not trying to be rude or insensitive but please realize that not all of us suffer from this condition and would like our games as realistic and intense as possible.
And now you are comparing new players to those of you who suffer from simulator sickness, but yes, new players will see the effects and be impressed with the realism. the spells are blur and displacement, is it so wrong of me to suggest they blur and displace you?
Like I said before, the pics I posted are very close up and may seem a bit disorienting but in-game would look much less distracting, maybe Ill post some more at a higher view to better illustrate my concept.

It has already been suggested that you can always turn your graphics down, or a "sickness-friendly" option could always be introduced if it's that much of an issue.

I posted this in hopes a dev could have a look at it and maybe like the idea, not to get into an argument with anyone.

Well anything's possible. You posted your idea in hopes of getting a Dev to look at it and be enticed by it and most of us posted to basically just say we've gotten used to the effect and we accept it. And many of us would much rather that time not be wasted on this.

In the end, I wouldn't care either way. If the graphic changes I'll get used to it. I personally like the current graphics, but that may just be because I've gotten used to it. I myself don't see any point to changing it. It'll cost Turbine time and money to do it, so it has to be worth it to them.

If a Dev sees this suggestion, they'll also see that few people would care to see it implemented, and thus I doubt it'll see the light of day, unless some Dev volunteers his free time to do it and convinces an Exec that it'll "look cooler and impress people" or something.

As far as "motion sickness" or "afflicted", it really is an issue to a degree, not to me but to some. Companies want money, they hate losing potential customers. Just to go along with your example, there are many people who indeed cannot fly and don't take airplanes. Do you not think airline companies would love to find some way to accommodate those people, make them comfortable enough to travel on airplanes, and make money off them?

But that's irrelevant. People are just giving their opinions. If you don't agree, that's cool. I don't agree that this would be a change for the better and certainly not worth the time to be put into it.

Either way, the effect would have to be really atrocious for it to bother me. As is I like the current effect and I'm comfortable with it. Apparently many others are too.

[dkyle]

I'm not being silly, this is exactly the sort of reasoning you are promoting, by catering to the afflicted at the expense of the healthy.

This is like complaining about wheelchair ramps because they offend your architectural aesthetics.

I'm not trying to be rude or insensitive but please realize that not all of us suffer from this condition and would like our games as realistic and intense as possible.

I'd prefer what we have to the ugly mess you propose. And I find the notion of a blurry haze causing a miss chance perfectly reasonable. Not to mention, that buff/debuff effects are more about providing a helpful indicator to the players, not showing what would appear in character. Or I suppose you think having a floating red circle above ones head a "realistic" effect of a curse. Or the music notes floating around players buffed with Iron Skin Chant. Or the red dots from Rage.

Like I said before, the pics I posted are very close up and may seem a bit disorienting but in-game would look much less distracting, maybe Ill post some more at a higher view to better illustrate my concept.

The blur, would just look like we turned our texture quality settings down. Ugly, but probably not that significant. The displace would be massively confusing. Now each of us has two characters running around. Which is the actual one? The one in the center of the screen I guess, but that might not be always obvious. It's hard enough to jump around places like Coal Chamber as it is.

I posted this in hopes a dev could have a look at it and maybe like the idea, not to get into an argument with anyone.

You made a suggestion, we're saying why we don't like it. If noone ever responded to suggestion threads, how would the Devs know what suggestions were widely supported by the community?

Because this is Dungeons and Dragons and it has an established system of rules. DDO is a visual representation of that and therefore the closer it emulates that system the more realistic it is. That is how I use the term "realistic" in this context anyway...

It's based on 3.5 PnP, but there's no reason it has to match it exactly. Certain modifications are necessary to fit the realities of video games. And the reality is the effects in PnP would be ridiculous looking if their visuals were represented literally.

[Iwinbyrollup]

Because this is Dungeons and Dragons and it has an established system of rules. DDO is a visual representation of that and therefore the closer it emulates that system the more realistic it is. That is how I use the term "realistic" in this context anyway...

Blur
The subject’s outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering. This distortion grants the subject concealment (20% miss chance).

Displacement
The subject of this spell appears to be about 2 feet away from its true location. The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. However, unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally. True seeing reveals its true location.

Even my interpretations are not exact but a representation of what those spells do, a closer representation then what is currently implemented. Nowhere is the spell description does it mention white fog surrounding the target.

Being like pen and paper does not equal realistic, it just equals being like pen and paper. Realism implies some comparison to real life.

That said, I think the current Blur animation is a more accurate visualization of that description than your Blur animation; in yours, the subject's outline is more or less unchanged (maybe a few pixels shifted), while the actual appearance is the same. Your subject's outline appears only very slightly blurred and neither shifting nor wavering. The Blur animation in game has the outline of the character fogged up with a shifting and wavering fog.

Your Displacement is closer to the description.

Ultimately, I don't think it's worth devoting time to making a change for several reasons:
1. It would make many people less able to play the game unless there was an opt-in set up.
2. It seems unnecessary to spend time on a very minor (i.e., one spell animation) opt-in aesthetic change, unless it takes almost no time to code, which I'm not certain it would.
3. It's no more realistic than the current animation.
4. In the case of blur, it's not necessarily more in keeping with PnP
5. In the case of Displacement, there are a lot of effects in game that deviate from PnP for a variety of reasons--I don't think there's a clear reason why this shouldn't deviate, and there might be a reason why it does. Namely, that it might cause more lag (though I'm not sure if it would).

I'd prefer what we have to the ugly mess you propose. And I find the notion of a blurry haze causing a miss chance perfectly reasonable. Not to mention, that buff/debuff effects are more about providing a helpful indicator to the players, not showing what would appear in character. Or I suppose you think having a floating red circle above ones head a "realistic" effect of a curse. Or the music notes floating around players buffed with Iron Skin Chant. Or the red dots from Rage.

This is a very good point that I hadn't even considered.

[Hendrik]

Maybe we should ground all flights and stop flying airplanes since some people suffer from motion sickness!!

And all food should stop being sold because some people get fat.



Any other ridiculous statements you care to make?

[Meretrix]

Wow you guys are brutal, and downright mean. Your excuses and reasons for shooting down my idea are flimsy at best... new players being confused? motion sickness? poor eyesight?? money??

I had an idea and posted a few pictures to demonstrate it, now I feel like I am being attacked by a group of jackals.
It's a idea I had for a slight aesthetic change, you can all settle down now.

I thank you for your feedback, such as it is.

[samthedagger]

Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2,Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The subject’s outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering. This distortion grants the subject concealment (20% miss chance).

A see invisibility spell does not counteract the blur effect, but a true seeing spell does.

Opponents that cannot see the subject ignore the spell’s effect (though fighting an unseen opponent carries penalties of its own).

Only the outline of the subject is affected. This is difficult to animate I think because a different effect would be needed for every possible form of every avatar, meaning a separate animation would need to be derived for every outfit, robe and model in the game. The current animation is simple because it is only a layered effect that is unaffected by the model. This, more than anything I think, is the reason why we have the current animation.

Displacement
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The subject of this spell appears to be about 2 feet away from its true location. The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. However, unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally. True seeing reveals its true location.

Material Component: A small strip of leather twisted into a loop.

Strictly speaking, this doesn't require an animation at all. All it would do is shift your perceived location a couple feet in another direction. While this would be relatively easy to animate, it would disorient players who are used to looking at their avatar in the center of the screen. Creating a "partially real" version of the avatar to the side as the OP has done would be interesting, but because it would create a lack of symmetry on the screen, it would probably be disorienting to some players.

I think the current animations for the effects are a reasonable compromise all things considered.

Also note that enemies in D&D get a Will save to negate the effect. In DDO they don't. Nice touch there