Seriously?!

[Llewndyn]

I will post the screenshot tonight after I get a chance to edit (maybe, if I remember) but tried to join an LFG for Shroud on normal on my 19 STR based Assassin Rogue, and get declined. That's fine, just wondering why though since you can't myddo my characters as they havent been updated in a month.

Leader responds "I already have a rogue in my party", to which I say something to the effect of "You do know rogues are great DPS, rivaling or beating a lot of other class DPS with their sneak attack?"

He responds "Well you can't keep up with casters AOE, and rogues are squishy" blah blah blah, you know the deal you have heard this all before, the thing that gets me is HOW do you get to level 20 and not know stuff like this? The worst part is I think I remember being in a PUG with this guy before and I did VERY well in the kill count, did I lead it? No, but I still did very well...

At what level is it no longer acceptable for someone to have no idea what other classes can do, even if it is a general idea? Can a rogue outdo a caster in DPS? I dunno prolly not, can a fighter? Can a barb? The more I think about it the more and more annoyed I get, I told him I was not mad just curious, and I didn't want to join his party anymore; someone who knows that little about other classes should prolly not be leading an important raid like the Shroud, tell me if I am wrong.

Maybe if we could post a sticky that shows how Rogues stack up against other classes that we could respond with when we get declined for missions that would make it better, what do you all think?

The best part? The ABSOLUTE best part? THis guy has 16 STR; I have 22. He has 12 CON (really) I have 20 (I know I know, not that great but still.....) This guy's CAPPED toon has 210 hit points, and he is calling ME squishy?! Are you friggin serious?! Oooh I SO wish I could post his name... how sad is it that even myddoing me would show my stats as being higher than his?

/rant

[Legohaiden]

dude... he said no... get over it. honostly.

[CrescentCalling_5]

I think past level 10 people need to learn the freakin classes >>

[Llewndyn]

dude... he said no... get over it. honostly.

If you read my post, I did. I just don't understand how you get to such a high level and don't have even a GENERAL idea about other classes. I could understand your response if I had berated him, but I didn't. Move along now, nothing to see here

[SaisMatters]

If you don't like how people run THEIR parties just start your own! Its that simple.

[jmonty]

6 no's and a yes still means yes




well. ****, that's pretty ironic. do you really want to group with him now anyways?

[Fomori]

I tend to look at those types of "rejections" as saving me headaches in the long run. They are being nice and letting you know upfront that they are lacking in some areas and are looking specifically to patch up those holes. If they were confidant in a completion they would take anyone...

I give more respect to someone that says straight up they are not comfortable and would like more/less of class X to help get through the quest smoohtly. Those people are trying to learn how to improve themselves to be better leaders. Its the ones that put up LFM's rotely following other LFM's without a clue as to why certain caveats were put up in the first place, that you want to stay away from, especially if they start trying to justify their "logic". They are just trying to fake an image to help inflate their ego and that is a recipe for disaster.

[Llewndyn]

I could start my own group; that was not the gist of my post though. This guy already had a decent group started, why would I start a competing group when he already had one with both a decent looking mix of characters and spots to fill?

Also how would I have known he was going to decline me for being "squishy" beforehand and started my own group? That's tantamount to you posting you had a party wipe because your healer DCed and me retorting 'you shouldn't have invited him'... makes NO sense.

[platonicx]

My rogue can over kill a lot of people as long as trash mobs go ... as a rogue i also stole aggro from 2 barbs a fighter and sorc at a dragon fight you can even back up heal very well rise people carry stones when there is a party wipe and some rogues can even tank ....

But that doesnt change the fact that noob players thinks rogues do trapz ... and some noob players build rogues like that who can blame em.

[Legohaiden]

Ive nothing against rogues and rogues played well are stellar characters.


But if i need DPS but also want that character to be able to take several hits... ima choose barb over rogue.


on average... barbs last longer then rogues when getting attacked.


its all about what the raid leader wanted... he wanted something that had more HPs


And somehow im thinking you where not as peachy and nice as your post suggests. Perhaps you got a little snippy because he said no... perhaps you suggested he doesnt know how to play? just thoughts

[Srozbun]

He did you a favor. Now you can add him to your special list and know that he has little understanding of game/build mechanics. Probably saved you from a 60 minute shroud as well.

[donfilibuster]

Depending on your server you'll find limited entry shrouds somewhat frecuently.

Some people's idea of a balanced shroud party is one wizard, two healers, and the rest of melees.
From these only one or two spots at most can be rogue, only one bard and two or three rangers.
(specially if they are arcane archers since they can kite harry)
Same goes for first timers, only one first timer per run.

It also depends on waves of exhaustion, if it is not available the leader may not allow anyone that is a risk of being squishy.
To make it worse, it's not all the leader's fault, if he went and allow everyone in then chances the players will think it is a bad group and the party would never fill.

So rogues maybe be better DPS but sadly tanks do enough damage without making any worries about hp.
Of course, there's plenty of groups that welcome anyone so we can just move to the next group and not be bothered with all this.

[Looonatic]

I can't think of anything more devastating than two rogues; at least one of them will always be sneak-attacking. Frequently both.

[Samwiser77]

Forget 'em. Most of the PUG Shrouds I've joined on Khyber show plenty of rogue love -- I think the max was 4 and we finished just fine. I wouldn't worry about one raid leader, unless it became a trend on your server. Doing a normal Shroud with perfect party makeup sounds a little lame anyway, since most people end up doing that raid dozens of times and the pool of players experienced with that raid is so large. As long as enough players know what is going on and the rest listen to instructions, then you'll be alright with almost whatever hits your LFM. I play a caster and a rogue, and would much rather have 2 rogues than 2 casters - as long as the caster knew what they were doing. But it doesn't really matter either way. I remember doing a Shroud with no rogue or unlocking ability. Someone just gave instructions on how to finish the puzzles from outside the room. The point is, you can make almost any combination of party work.

But if you feel the need to prove something, may I suggest an All-Rogue Shroud.

[Freeman]

on average... barbs last longer then rogues when getting attacked.

Actually, that's only true until the rogue breaks out the Heal scrolls...

[chrisgina39]

people should know at 7 but ive met multi tr that have no clue what a class is capable of...

[Bodic]

for the love of all that there is

namely your own personal sanity

/squelch add (InsertNameHere)

[sweez]

Umm, you're saying that MyDDO doesn't work, so where did you get his stats?

[Llewndyn]

Ive nothing against rogues and rogues played well are stellar characters.


But if i need DPS but also want that character to be able to take several hits... ima choose barb over rogue.


on average... barbs last longer then rogues when getting attacked.


its all about what the raid leader wanted... he wanted something that had more HPs


And somehow im thinking you where not as peachy and nice as your post suggests. Perhaps you got a little snippy because he said no... perhaps you suggested he doesnt know how to play? just thoughts

Actually I WAS every bit as "peachy" as my post suggested. I am not going to argue with someone over something as silly as "Rogues are squishy", I didn't even try to "educate" him. I did NOT suggest he does not know how to play, just thought the hypocrisy was entertaining that with sub-standard CON and STR and not that high WIS or CHA he was calling ME squishy when even on the outdated myddo of my toon I had 40 more HP than his capped character. so there :P

[Llewndyn]

Umm, you're saying that MyDDO doesn't work, so where did you get his stats?

meaning unless in the last month he has gotten back up to 20 again (and if so, then he is the finest player ever) he is still running his capped toon, which shows in myddo. Yes it's a month old, but from that I can kind of glean what he is doing, same as I am assuming he did when I requested entry into his shroud run. even though it's a month old, you can look at myddo and take a (semi)educated guess as to where the player had gone from there, is it exact? No. Could I be totally wrong and he has great stats now? Absolutely, I won't argue that. Was he wrong in saying rogues are squishy and (in essence) lack DPS? I believe so.