Suggestions for Flexible PrE Feat Requirements

[Anthios888]

Suggestions for Flexible PrE Feat Requirements

Please consider allowing more build creativity by allowing thematically appropriate substitutions to qualify for PrEs. A great example of this already exists. Arcane archers can take past life: sorcerer instead of mental toughness. Perhaps very few characters take advantage of this, but for those that do, it can add more depth to their goals and character.

More flexibility, without dramatically changing the power of the characters, lets classes be more customizable.

Most of my suggestions relate to past lives, but even expanding the current list to otherwise underused feats would achieve this goal.

Shintao monk I
Past life: Paladin (or possibly monk) substitute for Combat Expertise/Diehard

Ninja Spy I
Past life: Rogue substitute for Dodge

Archmage I
Past Life: Sorcerer instead of Mental Toughness

Defender of Siberys I (possibly Stalwart Defender)
Past Life: Fighter instead of Tower Shield Mastery

Frenzied Berzerker I
Past life: Barbarian instead of Cleave

Warchanter I
Past life: fighter, past life: barbarian, or skill focus: intimidate instead of weapon focus

Virtuoso I
Past life: bard instead of skill focus: perform

Spellsinger I
Past life: sorcerer or wizard instead of metamagic

Assassin I
Past life: rogue instead of Rogue Hide II and Rogue Move Silently II

Kensei I
Past life: monk or fighter instead of Fighter Attack Boost

[dkyle]

The free feats TRs get currently provide small bonuses that are generally weaker than normal feats. They should not be effectively handing out more free feats and APs. I would consider this making TRs dramatically more powerful.

On the other hand, making the bought feats count towards PrEs, I'd be OK with that.

Edit: I guess that's what you were suggesting. FYI, the past life: <class name> feats are the free ones. The bought ones are past life: <fancier name>. Incidentally, most of those fancier names are names of 4E multi-class feats.

[orakio]

The op was talking about the feats you buy, not the free ones. I would be ok with past lifes as substitutes for many PrE requirements.

[Anthios888]

Apologies for not having the fancy names, but I thought this would be simpler to understand for those of us who cannot recall the Initiate of Geekdom language.

I am referring to the taken feats, which would still require the same number of feats for all of these PrEs. Many of the PrEs are under-utilized but would fit with the theme of certain PrEs.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Somewhere one of the devs recently said that the PrEs were coded only to allow one "one of" section and one "all of" section. That might make it impossible to code most of the PrEs as suggested without a recode of that whole PrE enabling code. (Not saying I disagree with the idea, just that the PrE system might be too inflexible as designed)

[Samadhi]

I am still in favor of all PRE's being available to all classes or MC combinations based solely on prereqs without class restriction. (For example: There is no reason that ftr 17 should be so absurdly useless while ftr 18 has a HUGE power jump) This provides unlimited build customization within the limits of your AP and feat choices. However, any sub-step of that, including the one of the OP, is better than the current implementation.

[dkyle]

Apologies for not having the fancy names, but I thought this would be simpler to understand for those of us who cannot recall the Initiate of Geekdom language.

Well, sure, but something noting the shorthand would have helped. As it was, you only hinted at what you meant. Not everyone remembers the pre-reqs for Arcane Archer, and whether they include the free or taken Sorcerer past-life. I actually had thought it was the free one, but then, I've never payed much attention to Arcane Archer.

[Rav'n]

I like this idea. Half the PrE requirements are really dumb and look like they're there simply to burn up Feats.

+1

[t0r012]

Somewhere one of the devs recently said that the PrEs were coded only to allow one "one of" section and one "all of" section. That might make it impossible to code most of the PrEs as suggested without a recode of that whole PrE enabling code. (Not saying I disagree with the idea, just that the PrE system might be too inflexible as designed)

Shintao
Requires One of: Cleave, Combat Expertise, Discipline, Luck of Heroes, Self Sufficient, Precision, Resilience, Diehard

Defend of sib
Requires One of: Tower Shield Proficiency, Combat Expertise, Shield Mastery, Diehard
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doesn't look to be all that tough to have the one of prereq since it is already included for some of the prestiges.
-------

To the OP topic , hmm.. yeah dunno about using past life feats. Seems to me that you want to replace the "fluff" feats with something that is actually useful kinda defeats the whole purpose of the "fluff" feat to begin with.
I understand the difficulties of trying to make a pre reqs on a feat starved class and fit in a past life feat but that is one of the drawbacks to taking a prestige.

Don't know if I can agree to the idea. That would be a case of getting everything for nothing. IMO , not going to agree.
Individually I might agree with a couple of your suggestions on a case by case basis but on the whole , I have to disagree.

[grodon9999]

I am still in favor of all PRE's being available to all classes or MC combinations based solely on prereqs without class restriction. (For example: There is no reason that ftr 17 should be so absurdly useless while ftr 18 has a HUGE power jump) This provides unlimited build customization within the limits of your AP and feat choices. However, any sub-step of that, including the one of the OP, is better than the current implementation.

My "monster" build with Kensai III would be kind of friggin awesome.

[Irinis]

Archmage I
Past Life: Sorcerer instead of Mental Toughness

I hope you meant Past Life: Wizard even though that doesn't give more sp.

[Anthios888]

I hope you meant Past Life: Wizard even though that doesn't give more sp.

I meant past life: sorcerer for the SP. But if some of you role player types have any freaking idea what it all "means" feel free to substitute!

[Anthios888]

Don't know if I can agree to the idea. That would be a case of getting everything for nothing. IMO , not going to agree.
Individually I might agree with a couple of your suggestions on a case by case basis but on the whole , I have to disagree.

Many of the feats suggested are barely better or actually worse than some of the originals. For example, many battlebards would rather have +1 to-hit all the time than a short-term clickie.

Also, I hardly think that leveling your toon two times is something for nothing. It's sad when you TR a character that doesn't have any net positive on the final build.

[Gunga]

Great idea. +1

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Shintao
Requires One of: Cleave, Combat Expertise, Discipline, Luck of Heroes, Self Sufficient, Precision, Resilience, Diehard

Defend of sib
Requires One of: Tower Shield Proficiency, Combat Expertise, Shield Mastery, Diehard
-----

doesn't look to be all that tough to have the one of prereq since it is already included for some of the prestiges. .

Yes, would work for som, but not for others:

Monk Ninja Spy I
◦Requires One of: All-Consuming Flame, Porous Soul, Static Charge, Winter's Touch
◦Requires All of: Monk Jump II, Monk Tumble II, Dodge, Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness

In this one the feat suggested for replacement is in the "all of" section.

Once again, not saying you couldn't massage it to work, or to recode it to work, just that it may not be a quick and easy fix.

[Kza]

Good idea, all nice ideas that adds to utility wo making something so good its a "must have" i like. As this.

Some builds are more or less so featstarved that its very hard to get in a pastlife feat, nice if that easen up some
(not all TRs want to play monk/human/fighter/wizard or multiclasses of em)