reflex 30+ at lvl 13-15ish ?

[neclon]

I was told to do crucible elite I needed 30+ reflex save. That seems pretty hard to get unless you are a max dex build or have greensteel stuff at that lvl (which would be hard to do if not impossible).

I'm just a first generation char, dex build rogue, I have Voice of master, planar belt, and I can only see myself getting to like 23 self buffed if I buy a +4 resisitance cloak.

8 base reflex (13 rogue / 1 ftr)
9 dex (20 base +3 enh +5 item = 28)
1 voice of master
4 planar belt (not sustained, 10 min only but i have some control over this)
4 resistance item

23... now is trap sense a: effective in the swim in crucible b: shown in the character sheet

now i can hit uncanny dodge I suppose and get to 29 but i was thinking that may not suffice if its not sustainable.

[khaldan]

I was told to do crucible elite I needed 30+ reflex save. That seems pretty hard to get unless you are a max dex build or have greensteel stuff at that lvl (which would be hard to do if not impossible).

I'm just a first generation char, dex build rogue, I have Voice of master, planar belt, and I can only see myself getting to like 26 self buffed if I buy a +4 resisitance cloak.

8 base reflex (13 rogue / 1 ftr)
9 dex (20 base +3 enh +5 item = 28)
1 voice of master
4 planar belt (not sustained, 10 min only but i have some control over this)
4 resistance item

26

now i can hit uncanny dodge I suppose and get above 30 but i was thinking that may not suffice if its not sustainable

You should have 2-3 imp uncanny dodges by that time. 1.5 minutes is more than enough time to do the entire swim, and if you're willing/insane to zerg it, you can do it twice.

[neclon]

The 26 was off -- i can only get to 23 self buffed, but that may or may not include trap sense (if those spikes are considered traps).

I guess i can get a guild augment item and use a crystal for another +1 (thats vs traps again for tiny... but i'm assuming it's a trap check at this point)

[Looonatic]

If they are traps, then wouldn't 'trap sense' bonuses apply also?

[Nospheratus]

The swim part doesn't require a reflex save.
The second horn is the one that does require a big reflex save, since it's the one where you can't avoid at least some of the traps.

[MysteryNotes]

The swim part doesn't require a reflex save.
The second horn is the one that does require a big reflex save, since it's the one where you can't avoid at least some of the traps.

The swim itself doesn't require a reflex save, BUT there are spikes down there that will most certainly kill you if you have a low reflex save on elite.

[Rusty_Can]

23... now is trap sense a: effective in the swim in crucible b: shown in the character sheet

a) Improved Trap Sense should kick in.
b) No, it doesn't show on your character sheet; Improved Trap Sense kicks in when trying to save against traps, whereas your reflex save is used for many other things (e.g. save rolls against some spells).

As for your Reflex Save:
- Haste should provide +1 Dodge bonus to your Reflex Saves;
- if you are an Acrobat Rogue, hit your Showtime key (+4 to Dexterity, i.e. +2 to your Reflex Saves).

Some miscellaneous tips:
- dive with enough hp to soak up a couple of hits;
- bring potions with you: potions can be used underwater;
- if you ditched Improved Evasion, this is the right moment to regret it.....

[Razcar]

One thing that I did when I learned that swim when GH was new, was that I ran it a couple times alone after the party had finished (on normal) and had recalled. What I did then was to write down on paper the path to take (L -L - R - L- U - D - U etc) so it would become easier to memorize it. There are many corners down there where you can "pause" your character by swimming into a wall if you need time to write or drink some pots.

Remember that you do not need to swim forward, let the current take you and you will have more time to steer left/right/up/down to avoid the spikes. Mouse-look mode helps since it is 3D. You can also go backwards but that will just brake you and will prevent you from steering well. The best way is to write down which way to steer, memorize it and go with the flow. That way you will avoid all spikes and can do it with any character.

[NUDS]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a 30+ reflex save mean that the sum of your D20 roll + your reflex save must be higher than 30?

So assuming you don't roll a 1 or 20, you need a bare minimum of 28 total reflex to save against the traps (28 + 2). And if you are lucky, you can have a 11 reflex save and roll a 19, which will still save?

Or is this a exception where the check is static and therefore must be over a certain amount, where no dice rolls are taken into account?

Note: I haven't done Crucible yet.

[Bodic]

you dont swim without cure serious pots HP is all that really matters for the swim. The gauntlet is different you cant avoid those traps in that room.

[neclon]

Ah maybe the guy recruiting for the group misunderstood which part needed the reflex... but he was adamant that it had to be in the 30s ( I read later the target to never fail except on 1 was like 36). I have +10 swim boots just for that place if I ever get into it on elite. And I bought the +4 resist cloak. I'll just join the group next time, stack my saves up as high as I can, keep uncanny dodge up and pray i survive =)

[redraider]

No fail on Crucible elite is 40 not 30. Yep, that's right, 40.

8 Base
9 Dex
4 GH
4 Rog granted trap sense
6 Rog enhancement trap sense III
1 voice of the master
4 resistance (you can get +5's but +4 are easy to find)
___
36

Improved uncanny dodge is another +6 for 30 secs

If you are counting on uncanny, go fast fast as you can't click uncanny underwater, but you also only fail on a 1. Swim Forest swim!

[Nospheratus]

The swim itself doesn't require a reflex save, BUT there are spikes down there that will most certainly kill you if you have a low reflex save on elite.

They will kill you, if you go against them. I have done it many times and do it most of the times i go into The Crucible with fighters, barbs, casters.. Even tried with cleric, but failed

The thing is, have a swim item and remove the armor! Or have a merfolks blessing cast on you. It helps a lot on trying to avoid the said spikes. If they hit you, you may be in trouble alright - depending on how many hps you have ofc. You can always use pots.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a 30+ reflex save mean that the sum of your D20 roll + your reflex save must be higher than 30?

So assuming you don't roll a 1 or 20, you need a bare minimum of 28 total reflex to save against the traps (28 + 2). And if you are lucky, you can have a 11 reflex save and roll a 19, which will still save?

Or is this a exception where the check is static and therefore must be over a certain amount, where no dice rolls are taken into account?

Note: I haven't done Crucible yet.

It's a normal reflex save. Reflex save bonus vs traps + 1d20 must be equal greater than the DC (Difficulty Check) of the trap.

[CrescentCalling_5]

I recommend grabbing a few scrolls for spells that give morale bonuses to saves...or a bard >>"...then you'll have about 40

[Battlehawke]

They are right, if you want to be effective and not die so much, as a rogue you will need a high reflex in Crucible, however a ton of people do Crucible with no rogue (on Elite), so don't sweat it too much......

Battlehawke

[Gorkulon]

Swim carefully and carry a stack of cure serious pots. If you have improved evasion spikes should only hit you for about 120 hp on elite. Without improved evasion they will hit you for double. Chug pots after you get hit until HP are full again. Just be careful enough where you won't get hit several times in a row or death can come without the oppurtunity to chug. Make sure your strategy for stealthing the horn from the gnolls is working very well on other difficulties because they are much more of a pain on elite.

[Calebro]

Swim carefully and carry a stack of cure serious pots. If you have improved evasion spikes should only hit you for about 120 hp on elite. Without improved evasion they will hit you for double. Chug pots after you get hit until HP are full again. Just be careful enough where you won't get hit several times in a row or death can come without the oppurtunity to chug. Make sure your strategy for stealthing the horn from the gnolls is working very well on other difficulties because they are much more of a pain on elite.

This.

On the higher difficulties, I actually swim directly towards the spikes.
Why would I do that?!?
Because when you hit the wall that the spikes are on, you stop moving. The current is non-existent against the wall in most places. So if I happen to fail a save and take a big hit, I can sit there and drink up to full health without the risk of failing another save.
This method has only failed me once. Just make sure you have the HP to take that hit before you try it.

edit:
The HP and enough pots