Circe - Pale Master/Charmer

[sephiroth1084]

Pretty sure much of the point of this is to build around Augment Summoning, which PM does much better than AM (my assumption is that you can have both a skeletal minion and a summoned monster out at the same time).

[voodoogroves]

Pretty sure much of the point of this is to build around Augment Summoning, which PM does much better than AM (my assumption is that you can have both a skeletal minion and a summoned monster out at the same time).

You can; I've leveled one of these up a ways (and then deleted it, but that's a different story).

[OldAquarian]

Pretty sure much of the point of this is to build around Augment Summoning, which PM does much better than AM (my assumption is that you can have both a skeletal minion and a summoned monster out at the same time).

This is indeed the intent and PM works much better with the concept
In U7 you will have a choice of monster summons
PM gives a choice of skellies
Charm undead is a necro skill (not enchant) - so fits nicely in this theme

[OldAquarian]

Having a lot of fun with this
Starting to see that Human would be good for the extra feat
Will consider that for a TR - this way the past life feat doesn't bump any existing feat

[Entelech]

Augment Summoning does indeed help out the Pale Master pets...

But it also helps out charmed critters. And Archmage does considerably more for Charm than PM does.

There are advantages to both strategies, and I thought Archmage deserved a brief mention.

[Flmngo]

Forgive the less than stellar question...

I've been asked to play a wizard with a low-level, RP group. I've been playing DDO for some time and have a couple of mid-level alts, but only rogues and rangers. (save your rants for other threads ;P)

I really like this build as it is both straight-forward for a newbie-wizard player and elegant. However, I'm not seeing the allocation of skills. Perhaps they are just so well-known for wizards that you thought they didn't need stating..

...but could you?

I see in other build threads that Concentration, UMD, and Diplomacy are good. I also thought of Hide and MS since this build relies on critters getting all the aggro. I thought to round out the starting skills with Haggle and Spot for lack of any better choice.

Thanks for any advice.

~ Flmngo

[sephiroth1084]

Forgive the less than stellar question...

I've been asked to play a wizard with a low-level, RP group. I've been playing DDO for some time and have a couple of mid-level alts, but only rogues and rangers. (save your rants for other threads ;P)

I really like this build as it is both straight-forward for a newbie-wizard player and elegant. However, I'm not seeing the allocation of skills. Perhaps they are just so well-known for wizards that you thought they didn't need stating..

...but could you?

I see in other build threads that Concentration, UMD, and Diplomacy are good. I also thought of Hide and MS since this build relies on critters getting all the aggro. I thought to round out the starting skills with Haggle and Spot for lack of any better choice.

Thanks for any advice.

~ Flmngo

Mostly, after Concentration, wizard skills come entirely down to preference. Personally, I'd take at least 1 or 2 ranks in Tumble, about 6 in Jump, max Balance and then everything is up to you. Hide, Move Silently, Haggle, UMD are all decent options.

[Flmngo]

Thanks! Exactly what I needed.

[Dark_Necromancer]

Great build. Just one problem I have (and it's not just with yours). In a lot of builds they give you where you start, and where you end up at level 20, but they don't tell you how they get there. One thing I would love to have level by level is a progression of skill points you would spend if you wanted to keep the build balanced. I'm saying this because this looks like an incredible build that I've been wanting to try out for a while. This may be very noobish, but I would really appreciate it.


Also. Why are all the enhancements at the end???

[shagath]

I have seen posts putting quicken in the required list, but I'm missing why

The reason is that when you are in PM form, you will be taking care of your own heals most of the time. That means when you get aggro, you will lose hp and you want it back by getting negative energy burst in time.. Concentration check failure would mean death in many cases. It's almost same for WF casters with reconstruct but the difference is that they still can be healed normally so it's not that must for them. Quicken is on my PM required feats list. The harder the content, more you need this. Epics, elite amrath, higher level raids on elite and stuff like that.. (the stuff why you are trying to hit those high enchantment dc's)

You will see if you need this just by playing normally, if you fail a concentration check and die -> swap a feat.

[sephiroth1084]

The reason is that when you are in PM form, you will be taking care of your own heals most of the time. That means when you get aggro, you will lose hp and you want it back by getting negative energy burst in time.. Concentration check failure would mean death in many cases. It's almost same for WF casters with reconstruct but the difference is that they still can be healed normally so it's not that must for them. Quicken is on my PM required feats list. The harder the content, more you need this. Epics, elite amrath, higher level raids on elite and stuff like that.. (the stuff why you are trying to hit those high enchantment dc's)

You will see if you need this just by playing normally, if you fail a concentration check and die -> swap a feat.

Not even just because of Concentration, but also in situations where you may get knocked down or otherwise prevented from casting. Also, NEB seems to occupy the space in which you originate the casting, so if you move too quickly, you can actually move out of your burst before it would heal you. Quicken helps by bringing the casting time closer to your movement rate, though it appears to still be possible to miss yourself with a heal. I'd really like this to be changed, actually, as it seems kind of an odd function of the spell.

[Dark_Necromancer]

This is my own take on the build. Any (polite) criticism is appreciated.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Recnamorcen 
Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
(20 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 244
Spell Points: 1814 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 6
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats        
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
Strength             12                 12            
Dexterity            10                 10            
Constitution         13                 16            
Intelligence         20                 27            
Wisdom                8                  8            
Charisma             10                 10            

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 16
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 20

                  Starting            Ending          
                 Base Skills        Base Skills       
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
Balance               2                 11.5          
Bluff                 0                  0            
Concentration         4                 22            
Diplomacy             2                 11.5          
Disable Device        n/a              n/a            
Haggle                0.5                8.5          
Heal                 -1                 -1            
Hide                  2                 11.5          
Intimidate            0                  0            
Jump                  1                  3            
Listen               -1                  0            
Move Silently         2                 11.5          
Open Lock             n/a               n/a           
Perform               n/a               n/a           
Repair                5                 11            
Search                5                 11            
Spot                 -1                 -1            
Swim                  1                  1            
Tumble                2                 11.5          
Use Magic Device      2                 11.5          

Level 1 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Spell (1): Charm Person
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (1): Mage Armor
Spell (1): Niac's Cold Ray
Spell (1): Sleep
Spell (1): Summon Monster I
Spell (1): Feather Fall
Spell (1): Cause Fear
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Tumble
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy
Spell (2): Command Undead
Spell (2): Lesser Death Aura
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Enhancement: Elven Perception I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (2): Web
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Energy I


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (2): Invisibility
Spell (2): Summon Monster II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master I
Enhancement: Summon Skeleton Archer
Enhancement: Summon Skeletal Knight
Enhancement: Summon Skeletal Mage


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Death Aura
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (4): Summon Monster IV
Spell (4): Negative Energy Burst
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Spell (5): Summon Monster V
Spell (4): Charm Monster
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness
Spell (5): Dominate Person
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (6): Summon Monster VI
Spell (6): Create Undead


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (6): Disintegrate
Spell (6): Shadow Walk
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Finger of Death
Spell (7): Summon Monster VII
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master II
Enhancement: Summon Blackbone Knight


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Control Undead
Spell (6): Mass Suggestion
Enhancement: Summon Blackbone Archer
Enhancement: Summon Blackbone Mage
Enhancement: Shroud of the Wraith


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Improved Mental Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (8): Summon Monster VIII
Spell (8): Symbol of Death
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Shroud of the Lich


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (8): Mass Charm Monster
Spell (8): Horrid Wilting
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III


Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (9): Dominate Monster
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Energy II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Spell (9): Power Word: Kill
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Pale Master III
Enhancement: Summon Frostmarrow Knight


Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (9): Summon Monster IX
Spell (9): Meteor Swarm
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Summon Frostmarrow Archer
Enhancement: Summon Frostmarrow Mage


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
Skill: Hide (+0.5)
Skill: Move Silently (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Spell (8): Trap the Soul
Spell (8): Polar Ray
Enhancement: Wizard Master of Magic
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening II

[sephiroth1084]

First glance:
More Con.

Slightly longer first glance:
You have feats not plugged in.

Take Toughness earlier, SF: Enchantment later, dump Improved Mental Toughness, and take Quicken.

[Cardtrick]

Great build. Just one problem I have (and it's not just with yours). In a lot of builds they give you where you start, and where you end up at level 20, but they don't tell you how they get there. One thing I would love to have level by level is a progression of skill points you would spend if you wanted to keep the build balanced. I'm saying this because this looks like an incredible build that I've been wanting to try out for a while. This may be very noobish, but I would really appreciate it.


Also. Why are all the enhancements at the end???

I agree with you on the skills progression -- that's often not obvious.

The reason many builds list the enhancements at the end, though, is that enhancements can be changed easily and cheaply. It makes sense to change your enhancements a few times as you're leveling up your character, as the spells and abilities you're using and the content you're running change. When people list enhancements in a build, they're just guidelines for what enhancements might look like at max level -- it's expected and encouraged that anyone using the build will try out different enhancement configurations.