How do I not be scared to group with my cleric?

[EKKM]

I'll probably echo a lot of what has been said here but here are my 2c:

1 - Offensive casting isn't being used instead of healing, it is being used to avoid healing. You need to know how to target your spells though. Command is a will save spell, it does not work particularly good on casters but will usually work on all melee types (other than undead,constructs, ooze). Soundburst is a fort save, try to target it so it hits enemy casters primarily as they have bad fort saves and they also usually hurt the party the most.

2- You mentioned catcombs as being a pain. At low levels turn undead will be effective if you do a few things. Cast eagles splendor (or pot it), cast that level 2 spell that boosts your turning and wear a sacred item. This will be effective up to around level 8. After that it can still work but your burst from RS will probably be more effective.

3- Start each quest with a SP item equipped, it will likely be gone after buffing so you can switch it. At low levels mine was a rod that I switched to a shield.

3a EDIT - Buffing is important use the appropriate buffs for each quest and you will save thise buffs on healing. Dont feel the need to throw 6 of each type of individual buffs though unl;ess it is critical. You will waste your SP that way.

4- Use the highest devotion item you can. You have high level, alts use them to buy this.

5- Prioritize your heals - you know who the drains are and who are effective. Prioritize those effective ones. If you have 5 drains, wait for the wipe without using wands and drop.

Goodluck. Once you get to higher levels you will probably love your cleric but can be rough to start.

[Hendrik]

1. You can cure Feeblemind but not stupidity - so don't even try heal stupid.
2. Triage is a great suggestion at ALL levels.
3. If the mana sponge won't listen to you, leave his stone where it lies and move on.
4. Your not a babysitter so do not fall into that role unless its your playstyle.
5. Do not waste resources on a uncooperative group.
6. Guild Groups - try and stick with em.
7. All else fails, recall and drop.

[BlackSteel]

while leveling up, divine casters get some of the funnest Crowd Control. Theres really no need to heal if you're spending your spell points on soundburst and command at the lower levels, and greater command/cometfall once its available.

if you're group cant take down 3-4 hobgoblins that have been stunned for 6 seconds with soundburst then somethings wrong. The melee have to remember they have crowd control available to, if that last monster becomes undazed as they start to beat on it, Trip is a viable option. Playing your cleric or favored soul with melee capabilities or with a decent DC to use crowd control is a far more efficient (and fun) way to level as compared to simply a nanny bot.

[Battlehawke]

Playing a good cleric is not easy. Always have your cleric well equipped with wands and scrolls and never have an escuse why you couldn't heal. A good cleric can keep almost any idiot in a quest going (no matter how many times you have to rez them). Rules to live by and even put them in your BIO on your toon

#1 If you run ahead w/o buffs, I will not heal you...
#2 If you get out of my range (clerics are slow), I will not heal you...
#3 If I have to continuously rez you because of #1 and #2, I will not rez you...
#4 If you play smart and give it everything you have, I will exaust every resource I have to make any quest a completion.....


I have 3 high level clerics and carry 200 heal scrolls, 8 cure serious wands, and 100 true rez scrolls on each them. I find that I don't need them so much these days with the "healing arua", but in the past I could use all of these in a week-end.....incredibly expensive to stock...

Some clerics will tell you that they will never spend their own money to keep a group up. I find that if I dont get to the end chest(s), then I can't afford to restock.

You will find that in low and mid levels it can be very expensive to stock up and play a succesfful cleric, but at high levels you actually start to make a little money back, again, especially with the addition of the "healing aura" (thank you again, Turbine!)

Thanks
Battlehawke

[~jradnut]

Child, restrain your needs to excel. You are but a weak vessel chosen to recieve the healing gifts of your God in return for your soul. Renounce that part of you that writhes in hope of recognition and rejoice that your betters live on through your sacrifice.
And above all, remember the holy healing order unto death itself....
1) Monks, 8)
2) Warforged....meh
3) Casters
4) Rangers....(choke)
5) bards

In this manner shall your soul be admitted to ...(Insert Paradise)

[Llewndyn]

I rolled up a FVS since I recently attained said class and from past experience I start with a base 14 str and it has worked WONDERS... not only am I comfortable crappily solo healing but I can also run out and die right along with the melees... having a high enough STR to hop out and melee actually goes a LONG way toward saving SP also, as you are keeping mobs beat down and agro on yourself and therefore can focus your SP on mostly yourself... I am not sure about higher level stuff but I know in the irestone run I did last night it helped a LOT as the wizzy I was running with must have had 8 con (I cast a light wounds, with empower healing TBH but light wounds and it gave him 3/4 of his bar EVERY time) so it was useful to be able to help out in more ways than one.

[Qezuzu]

If your Rogue is an assassin and can consistently Assassinate a few monsters in every encounter, keep him/her alive. Assassinate is a 15sec cooldown and is a very powerful ability and probably has a 28 FORT save a lvl12. But that's just because I'm a rogue.

The people who are working efficently and are doing what they're supposed to do should remain standing. Dumbasses who zerg out of range and the squishy, UNUSEFUL 100 HP rogues*/rangers*/casters* wonders shouldn't make you drain your SP to keep them alive because they can't take two consecutive hits without dying.

Keep a stock of scrolls and wands for SP conservastion.

Establish connections with good players you found in PUGs.

(*not saying they're low HP by default. But those who play these classes and don't pay attention to their HP are either stupid or like to pike as a rock).

[Llewndyn]

As my main is my STR based assassin rogue. When I get into a PUG, using both assassinate and getting the random 20 and autokilling because of the tier 3 assassin moniker, I can rack up as many and in a few cases more kills than the tank. I WILL concede I need a good tank to be in the group to get agro so that I am effective, if your rogue is not being stupid and is out hitting stuff and you have to heal him a lot, I would look not only at him but also at the tanks and wonder why they are not getting agro. I will tell you when all classes play even SEMI competently it's a beautiful thing!

That being said though sometimes you have to make a person prove they are WORTH the heals in the interest of SP conservation. If I am dying a lot, I don't whine if the cleric picks up my stone and doesnt raise me if we are in a situation where conservation is key, and I think other classes would go a lot farther to getting some healer love if they played the same way.

[Razcar]

The 9-step programme how to remain sane while pugging a cleric/FvS to raid levels:

1. Create a Cleric/FvS
2. Turn down incoming voice chat volume totally
3. Turn of incoming Party Chat in all your text windows
4. Turn of Tells in all your text windows
5. Join LFM doing some quest you want to run
6. Before starting quest say once in voice chat (you can talk but won't hear) "I heal and buff but I don't carry the Cure Moron spell."
7. Heal, buff, cast offensive spells/melee when and how you judge it to be needed
8...
9. Profit

[Faent]

I'm currently leveling up my first lowbie. She's a healing/casting specced human FvS designed to be (i) a Shroud healbot and feed my main as many ingredients as she can, and (ii) a fully zerg-solo capable character.

I group with anyone and everyone. If the group sucks, I blow resources like crazy to get to a quest completion. Why not? I can fund it easily. And it's good practice.

I love it when I run with another cleric/healer and can mainly ignore healing duties, zerg ahead killing everything with Maximized/Empowered/Quickened/Extended Blade Barriers and work on practicing my use of Destruction, Slay Living, Greater Command and Heightened Sound Burst. But I have no objections whatsoever to burning resources practicing my healing skills in some very difficult to heal groups. In the long run, it will make me a much better player.

Eventually, I'm sure my FvS will refuse to burn resources to ensure completion when the group is playing like a bunch of crazy fools. But while you're learning how to play your character, if you have the resources to burn, you should be burning them. There is no better way to learn what you are capable of.

[Baloran]

I'm currently leveling a melee FvS (level 10, main stat Str, TWF) who could up to now solo most content if needed, but also is specced for maximum efficency in healing.

Sometimes I like to fight, sometimes I like to heal.

When I run with groups I don't know, I have a simple rule: Don't do quests above your level or I won't join. A group of level 3-4s who just finished Korthos want to run WW on elite, just because someone can open it on elite? Sure go ahead, but without me. Keeping those groups alive can be very tough.

On the other hand, just yesterday I joined a group of level 8-10s which was going to do (just looking for a healer) Gwylans Stand Elite (lvl 7 quest + 2 for elite=level 9 quest) - I had absolutely no problem in keeping the group alive, it was a very smooth run.

Another thing: Due to dungeon scaling the most efficent way to do low level quests on normal is with small groups (for example just duo with a melee friend) - less people to buff, less hitpoints to heal.

Cheers

Baloran

[Faent]

When I run with groups I don't know, I have a simple rule: Don't do quests above your level or I won't join.

Too simple. You can read off the LFM, with a fair bit of accuracy, a PUG group's capability. Look at the group's makeup, read the LFM, etc... I've been pugging like-level content almost solely on H/E. And pugging +2-3 level content on Normal (like Rainbow in the Dark at level 13). On rare occasions I've run into some trouble, but those rare occasions provide you with excellent practice. If you don't know exactly what your build is capable of, and you never fail, then you aren't challenging yourself. And if you don't challenge yourself, you aren't really learning.

A group of level 3-4s who just finished Korthos want to run WW on elite, just because someone can open it on elite? Sure go ahead, but without me. Keeping those groups alive can be very tough.

That's going to be a trainwreck. I'm not recommending healing a total trainwreck. =) But I do recommend challenging yourself if you have the resources to do so when you don't yet know the capabilities of your build.

[Spookyaction]

I had a 20 cleric and 20 fvs as well, and untill you get heal its a waste of sp to heal anyone truthfully when I can just sound burst divine power and go to town myself.

I read the thread up to this post because i think its spot on. I just started a new cleric and at lvl 4 i had about 320 sp. After i buff myself I had about 220 left depending on what resists are needed and that is just for me not a whole party. SO this gives me 22 cure light wounds which may add up to 300 hps healed. Thats not very much at all. I drink pots if i need to be healed so i can use my mana on sound burst and command. Its really unreasonable for an at level group to think you are going to keep them all healed. At these levels cure serious pots should be used by everyone who can afford them. If the party expects you to be the healer for everyone they should be giving you wands.

[Baloran]

Too simple. You can read off the LFM, with a fair bit of accuracy, a PUG group's capability. Look at the group's makeup, read the LFM, etc... I've been pugging like-level content almost solely on H/E. And pugging +2-3 level content on Normal (like Rainbow in the Dark at level 13). On rare occasions I've run into some trouble, but those rare occasions provide you with excellent practice. If you don't know exactly what your build is capable of, and you never fail, then you aren't challenging yourself. And if you don't challenge yourself, you aren't really learning.

That's going to be a trainwreck. I'm not recommending healing a total trainwreck. =) But I do recommend challenging yourself if you have the resources to do so when you don't yet know the capabilities of your build.

When joining a PUG, I don't want to be challenged by the inability of my fellow party members - I just want some easy playtime for XP/loot with minimum resources spend.

I want to be challenged by the game only, so I just do hard/elite runs above my level with guild mates or after I did a quest with a PUG and know the PUGs capability.

Looking at the LFM doesn't really help - there is no way of judging player skills by the group makeup: Oh great we have one wf and he is a wizard - I shouldn't need to heal him much - turns out he runs ahead, aggros everything and refuses to cast repair on himself - oh and he didn't take Healers friend.

Other run: Oh we have a fleshy barb in the group, those are way better to heal than those wf barbs - except this one decides to roleplay (?) a little too much by running ahead through every trap (rest of group waits for the trapsmith to disable the trap) aggro every monster in sight and fight behind corners so that I cannot see him (just can watch his little red bar getting smaller and smaller....DING)

Not even talking about those ranged-only rangers (I think they should get a different icon, so that you can tell the difference before you join the group) , aggroing whole groups of enemys and still using the bow in hand-to-hand distance (do the mobs actually get Attacks of Opportunity for this?).

On the other hand - A fleshy barb, a wf wizard and a ranger who uses his TWF feats actually can be a very efficient team together with a FvS. No way to tell from the LFM panel.

Cheers

Baloran

[Razcar]

Looking at the LFM doesn't really help - there is no way of judging player skills by the group makeup: Oh great we have one wf and he is a wizard - I shouldn't need to heal him much - turns out he runs ahead, aggros everything and refuses to cast repair on himself - oh and he didn't take Healers friend.

While you are mostly right, the LFM can tell you some things. First about the party leader (players who cannot spell and/or use leet warn me that they might be kids, weird requirements that they are not very knowledgeable), and about the rest of the party
(evidently bad multi-classes like wiz x/sorc1, or a ranger called BowMastah ShootzUrMum ...).

As a rule I don't join pugs doing Elite quests on a healer if I don't know or have played with some people in the group before, and know they are capable (or if the quest is really easy, altough that can often become "famous last words"). If I join an unknown group and someone wants to switch diff like in "ok cool a healer now we can do Elite" then I'll usually tell them they'll have to go without me.

[Frodo_Lives]

On my clerics/FvS I tend to look very carefully at the LFMs before deciding which group to join.

I avoid the ones:

Trying to do elite above levels
Have anyone on my DNG list in them (which is very small)
At lower levels ones with multiple WF and no WF arcane (sorry but sp only goes so far)
The ones that say "know your way" because you will usually get someone (and sometimes the leader) who doesn't know and it gets to be a mess.
Is filled with oddball builds or stupid names (one or two I can handle more than that it gets risky)


Basically if the group looks like it could be a train wreck then it probably will be, and sometimes that's fun too. Don't overheal, Don't spend resources to support stupid play, and don't feel the the success or failure of the quest rests solely on your shoulders. It's a group mission and it is not the clerics responsibility to be the only player that acts like they know what they are doing.

Sometimes you run across players who think that your blue bar is their unlimited red bar and act accordingly. Most other people in the group will (silently or otherwise) recognize this fact and will not blame the cleric for letting them die, repeatedly if neccessary.

[Baloran]

On my clerics/FvS I tend to look very carefully at the LFMs before deciding which group to join.

While you are mostly right, the LFM can tell you some things. First about the party leader (players who cannot spell and/or use leet warn me that they might be kids, weird requirements that they are not very knowledgeable), and about the rest of the party.

Your both right - looking at a group makeup can give you the "AVOID ME" flag. But you still can't tell wether a normal looking group is capable of doing stuff above their head.

And my comment was mainly directed at the OP who asked:

"How do I not be scared to group with my cleric?"

And as an answer to this question I said: "When I run with groups I don't know, I have a simple rule: Don't do quests above your level or I won't join."

This is one possible way to make last your SP longer and avoid wand whipping. (There are of course several different answers to this question and a lot of good suggestionshave been made in this thread).


Cheers

Baloran

[Postumus]

umm, no

clerics arent made for healing,

Then why are my cleric's spell slots automatically filled with mandatory healing spells? Oh, right, to heal undead to life.


That last sentence sounds weird... like a DDOmatized GE jingle:

Clerics, we heal undead to life!

[Stormraiser]

I would actually be against using all the wands, scrolls and potions early. Use what you find or what others give you, but don't buy so many scrolls or you will become dependent on them and never learn to manage resources. Get RS as early as possible, it is excellent low-mid level. Aura is much better then a mana DV. (You can ask people to slow down for a moment as your aura heals them up) Look for ways to mitigate damage, not just from spells. Cursespewing, paralyzing (too high level for you so far), and some kind of disable work very well. The Earth Elemental summon is very good for the mana as well.

Making sure everyone has fire resist is much better then constantly healing people while they fight fire elementals. Just ask who needs a certain buff. You don't even have to be the person always casting them. Rangers have mana, and should use it to help. Before you shrine, cast buffs on people, cast a summon, etc. Some people will always, and you can't really help it, just do your best.

Since you have a level 20 alt, you should have some good clickies, like haste and other CCs. Use them well.