WF vs. Halforc vs. Dwarf: Best Tank?

[salmag]

Here's the way I see it (as someone that doesn't play, nor will ever play, a Half-Orc, Dwarf, OR Warforged):

Dwarfs:

Smell really, really bad...

Warforged:

Can have their batteries drained, and there is NEVER an outlet around when you need one...

Half-Orcs:

Look Fiona-Shrek butt-ugly...

So I would say that Dwarfs make the best tank. Once the mob takes a wiff, they must make a Fort save (to stay on their feat), a Will save (to stay awake or pass out), followed by a Reflex save (to move out of the Stench cloud).

[noinfo]

You totally missed the argument. noinfo is suggesting playing an AC tank; if Suulo doesn't hit you, he can't curse you. Of course, any AC is still irrelevant 5% of the time, so the "it's awkward to down curse pots" point is not completely moot even in this case.

Cheers,
Kernal

Not completely moot but when you consider getting cursed involves more than just getting hit, it makes a huge difference, most ac tanks would be unlucky to see more than a couple of curses if that in VOD and drinking a curse pot is pretty trivial in those cases.

Anyway of the ugly brute force with a bulls eye of them races mentioned in this thread, the difference between them tanking is almost irrelevant.
Seriously the type of tanking being used in this discussion only requires the tank hold agro while whoever is healing pumps in massive amounts of sp in to keep them up. The only advantage is in the curse bypass of recon in basically 2 situations. In those cases if you must go for a brute force tank then let the WF do it (afterall they are expendable anyway )
Otherwise it breaks down to who you have healing, if you have a spare arcane with recon fine, otherwise given that all mentioned races will have/should have more than enough hp/dps to do the job effectively then what does it matter?
If you wanted efficiency then a human with better healing amp would probably be best in front or someone who is not being hit even better, otherwise the differences are insignificant and who is out infront will not change the overal dps of the group anyway or make it go faster or slower unless they have horrid dps.

[Danmor]

@Boromirs
I almost exclusively play healers and I do appreciate WF tanks with their 50% healing penalty (lol at that btw).

If you're playing with experienced players that are able to take care of themselves, the curse on the tank isn't that big an issue. They can drink a pot themselves.

But you know where the problem is? A heal spell has a finite casting time. I.e. I see the tank's getting low. I hit my Heal hot key. The tank gets cursed. The heal spell finishes casting.
And that kind of thing happens more often than you'd like.

Apart from that, a cursed tank requires a lot more attention than a WF tank that is being healed by an arcane. In a raid I usually have 12 red bars to watch while maybe contributing a bit to the raid itself (I've heard some healers can do damage). Also having to watch out for curses is error-prone and limits my healing.

Bottom Line: Of course fleshling tanks are a viable choice, but they usually force one healer into the role of a babysitter. WF tanks that are actually healed by an arcane enable the healers to take care of the remaining raid much easier.

[Doxmaster]

The fact that it isnt easy to decide is a very good sign.

I will miss all the DOoOOOoOoOoOoOoO0000mmm!!!!! posts though.

[Boromirs]

The fact that it isnt easy to decide is a very good sign.

I will miss all the DOoOOOoOoOoOoOoO0000mmm!!!!! posts though.

Not really, halforcs are still the absolute best DPSers this was already understood, we're now moving into tanks where the ambiguity as to who is better is somewhat disconcerting.... I was expecting WF or Dwarf to be a clear winner over halforc, but now it looks like WF slightly better tank then horc and Dwarf inferior to Horc? Actually, that hasnt been much discussed, is dwarf (should be) better then horc at tanking?

[Truenuetral]

imo

DPS = HalfOrc > Warforged > Dorf (I could see a good argument for Dorf over WF if you want to face "to-hit" in from axe enahncements)


Survivability = Warforged > Dorf > Halforc

[Bloodlance]

hmm, but then again you cant absolutely judge a best race to tank a boss ie, cursing boss etc.

imo you should combine it with the tanking classes, ie

Paladin , lvl 3 spell : remove curse / pot

Does a lvl 20 (insert race here) Paladin do more hate, then a lvl 20 WF (insert class here) tank

best combo vs best combo

result ?

[grodon9999]

Some of the best "tanks" I've seen have been WF, some of them even aren't a pain in the ass to heal. I'm talking about initimi-tanks because Ghallanda has a ton of great ones. That "Rockcandy" build is really friggin effective. Different servers do things differently, we use intim a lot more on ours. I also run with several dwarfs and humans who also get the job done with minimal resources used.

Am I the only one who finds it funny that Sulu is considered a dangerous enough of an opponent that people rationalize it as a reason to pick a race? Regarding Sulu even on Elite if we have a good intimi and two Clerics (with RS aura) you often won't even need to cast a healing spell until the second wave of Orthons drop.

As far as "Hate-tanks" go I'll take my friend's human Barb with an ESoS any day. My heal hits him for almost 800. Yeah he does 6 less per swing than a WF but it takes less than half the SP to keep him alive, more than a fair trade. He's gonna be a H-orc when he TRs, darn my heal will ONLY hit him for 700 then!

[Myrdinn]

Sorry to break it to you guys, but as far as healing goes, WF is not superior, he is in fact inferior to all the other race...

Why? Because it took the caster mana when it should use the healer mana. You will tell me it can be healed through curse, so what, a fleshie just take a guild pot. More than that, a wf is healed for 50% less. Lets say you got 700 hp. I will heal a wf for 350 and a fleshie for 600. So I prefer having a fleshie using curse removal pot.

The good point for the wf is the free spot for disease imm. and proof against poison (this one can be taken care of by clicky) and is immunity for hold person (which is awesome at lvl 1-10).

Just to give a good exemple:

In ToD, 2 casters can take care of all the orthons, while the fighter just concentrate on bashing horoth and possibly suluu. When caster have to heal main tank, then it is a race between bashing horoth and killing orthon all the time. I tell ya, having caster concentrate on orthon and melee on horoth is better. And 2 healers is enough to heal both main tank and party.

[khaldan]

Sorry to break it to you guys, but as far as healing goes, WF is not superior, he is in fact inferior to all the other race...

Why? Because it took the caster mana when it should use the healer mana. You will tell me it can be healed through curse, so what, a fleshie just take a guild pot. More than that, a wf is healed for 50% less. Lets say you got 700 hp. I will heal a wf for 350 and a fleshie for 600. So I prefer having a fleshie using curse removal pot.

The good point for the wf is the free spot for disease imm. and proof against poison (this one can be taken care of by clicky) and is immunity for hold person (which is awesome at lvl 1-10).

Just to give a good exemple:

In ToD, 2 casters can take care of all the orthons, while the fighter just concentrate on bashing horoth and possibly suluu. When caster have to heal main tank, then it is a race between bashing horoth and killing orthon all the time. I tell ya, having caster concentrate on orthon and melee on horoth is better. And 2 healers is enough to heal both main tank and party.

The entire point of arcane healing is to never, ever worry about getting a curse at a bad time, followed by a failed disint. Guild pots are nice, but if you don't notice the curse(very easy to do), then get hit once or twice, dying is a serious possibilty. If you're a WF though, you never have to worry about it.

That, and arcane mana can do healing/orthons/dps in part 1/kiting in part 2. Divine is just healing/kiting in part 2.

It's all about the versatility.

[grodon9999]

The entire point of arcane healing is to never, ever worry about getting a curse at a bad time, followed by a failed disint.

Horoth doesn't curse, is he hate tanking both Horoth and Sulu at the same time?