Devs: Will we ever fight the Grand Dukes of Hell?

[Entelech]

PS:

It's not that I'm opposed to universe-hopping cosmological mash-ups in general. It's that I don't feel the Eberron setting needs them or benefits from them.

If you have a campaign where multiverse-hopping is expected, that can be fun. GURPS and RIFTS and TORG are all good games based on that premise, and it can easily be encompassed in the AD&D default cosmology as "Alternate Prime Material planes" in a homebrew.

Eberron broke with the default cosmology on purpose, because it had something a bit more specific in mind. And when the designers (including Kieth Baker) rewrote it for 4th Edition, they filed off the last vestigial remnants of the default cosmology. On the first page of this thread, there are some pictures of the Eberron cosmology as given in 3.5 and again in the 4.0 books. In 4.0, the Plane of Shadow (which is included as a shaded sliver below the 3rd ed. Prime Material to account for the spells you cite) has been completely removed.

Take that as an indication of the game designer's intent.

I'm of the opinion that Eberron is cool enough, and varied enough, that you'll be more than happy to toss aside tripe from the Forgotten Realms once you get familiar with it.

[Phoenicis]

So Mystra was a nympho, no reason to get all bent out of shape over it.

OBVIOUSLY we are not going to some other game world via the plane of shadows in DDO.

JUST as obviously the DEVS are in charge of what (if anything) gets brought in from other campaign settings. Thus far I'm glad to say I've seen little if any indication they are so inclined.

Eberron (and any changes made to it by WOTC/Hasbro) are outside the purview of DDO, despite the MMO's setting being (loosely) Eberron.

I guess I don't see a reason to get bent out of shape over the existence of the plane of shadow in DDO's version of Eberron.

[Entelech]

As I said. I don't care where you go when you cast that spell.

I'm fine with there being a Plane of Shadow. I'm fine with there NOT being a Plane of Shadow.

But if, by its' existing, it implies that crossovers are not only possible but REQUIRED, then it has to go.

And, apparently, Kieth Baker shares a similar sentiment, if the 4th edition is taken into account.

[Entelech]

I suppose, at its' most basic, I'm saying "Keep your danged chocolate out of my shrimp curry."

It's not even a chocolate and peanut butter scenario.

[Primalhowl]

From my understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong), but Keith Baker was not the guy in charge of the Eberron 4th ed update. In fact, I remember seeing a post of his about making the best of the changes with a tone that suggested he didn't agree with many of them.

I mean, if I had created a new universe and the company I worked for stepped in and rewrote it into genericness, I'd not be happy but I'd toe the company line to keep my job...

[Boromirs]

From my understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong), but Keith Baker was not the guy in charge of the Eberron 4th ed update. In fact, I remember seeing a post of his about making the best of the changes with a tone that suggested he didn't agree with many of them.

I mean, if I had created a new universe and the company I worked for stepped in and rewrote it into genericness, I'd not be happy but I'd toe the company line to keep my job...

I think he got 2 things from winning that contest way back when. First, he got 15 thousand dollar check (grand prize winner) and he also got a job as a game designer with WoTC. Most likely he had a hand in 4th edition Eberron, also likely he was influenced by his job, and probably even more likely is that the intellectual property is part of Hasbro (WoTC) as part of him getting a job and winning the contest.

[Entelech]

I've heard interviews with Kieth Baker on several different podcasts, both official WotC and third party.

According to what I've heard, he's been running his own table in 4e for some time now.

And, if you'll note, the whole "genericness" is what I have been ranting against. WotC has not added random flotsam from other settings to Eberron, and I'm trying to keep random forum loonies from adding it to the setting because they don't know any better.

Also, if you look at the changes made to Eberron with the change to 4e, two of the three are actually improvements, as far as I am concerned.

The Dragonborn are pretty weak as an addition. Basically it's "they were off in this corner the whole time and nobody noticed them."

The background given for Tieflings is actually kinda cool. They ruled a big chunk of Sarlona before the Inspired kicked their butts, and now they're scattered throughout Sarlona and Khorvaire as refugees.

And the background given for the Eladrin is actually something that clarifies part of the history of the Elves in a really neat way.

WotC has, in general, treated Eberron with the respect it deserves. Please don't listen to the drooling Drizz't fanboys with their Lightsaber-wielding Lady of Pain Paladin/Archivists. They're trying to tell you they're not raping the setting, because they heard WotC was the one who put the roofies in her drink.