Devs: Will we ever fight the Grand Dukes of Hell?

[Symar-FangofLloth]

I don't have the 4e ECS (figured the 3.5 ECS was good enough ) but I do have the 4e EPG.
That information about Baator is disheartening.

Oh, and dragonborn and 4e aren't as generic as 'oh they live with lizardmen.' Apparently, they also had an ancient empire on Khorvaire that predated the gobolonid empires. Although they do originate from Argonessen/Seren.


Anyway, I'm in full agreement of expanding Shavarath, encountering the Daelkyr, and traveling to the other Eberron planes. Personal pick: Xoriat

I'm a little shaky on one aspect, though. What's the relation of the Lords of Dust to the Daelkyr? I had thought the Lords were imprisoned Daelkyr, but maybe I've been remembering that wrong...

[WestportStan]

I think/hope we can all agree that......It doesn't matter how much the Eberron concept will continue to change and grow, as long as the Forgotten Realms lore stays out.

[TigrisMorte]

can't see it from Greyhawk so it does not matter.

[Cernunan]

Now while I will admit that any new content done well is a good thing, I just have to remember a thing or two about DDO.

Shroud was released, we ran that content constantly. For months. And months. And then some more months. Primary foes: devils.

After some time we got a new mod. The sub. Main enemies: devils.

They did not release any content for 8 months. So we got to fight devils. And then the same devils. Again. And again. For 8 months.

Finally we did get some more content, What was it?
Devils. Again.

I have to admit, I am relly sick of fighting devils right now....

[dejafu]

I'm a little shaky on one aspect, though. What's the relation of the Lords of Dust to the Daelkyr? I had thought the Lords were imprisoned Daelkyr, but maybe I've been remembering that wrong...

The Lords of Dust are worshippers of the imprisoned Rajahs/Overlords from the Age of Demons. The Rajahs consist of various demon lords and powerful rakshasas, and many of the Lords are powerful demons in their own right. The Daelkyr are lords of Xoriat who terrorized the world during the era of the great goblin empires of Khorvaire by creating legions of aberrant invaders (mind flayers, beholders, etc.). Both were imprisoned in Khyber, as Khyber dragonshards are especially good at binding souls - the Rajahs by the dragons and couatls, the Daelkyr by the Gatekeeper druids.

[dejafu]

I have to admit, I am relly sick of fighting devils right now....

I'd be okay with it if it primarily featured NEW devils. D&D is loaded with devils of every shape and size, time to start reskinning some other critters to spice it up a bit!

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Both were imprisoned in Khyber, as Khyber dragonshards are especially good at binding souls - the Rajahs by the dragons and couatls, the Daelkyr by the Gatekeeper druids.

That must be what got me confused. Thanks.

[RobertHut]

1. This is Ebberon. The planes work a bit different here. You will no more meet Asmodeus than you would meet Elminster. There is no hell, therefore no Dukes of Hell.

although that is true i remember an oozey avatar with a very familiar (non ebberon) name all the way down in one really lovely quest

[WestportStan]

I donno why there is all the talk about other planes. There are a lot of places left on this plane that would make some steller quest settings.
I vote Sharn.


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[woundweaver]

dolurhh is where i would like to go

[Entelech]

The Truthful One has been on everyone's wish list for a long long while. He's like DDO's arch-nemesis... like Deathwing is to WoW. But, to clarify... Eberron does have the 9 grand dukes of hell.

Siberys consists of:

* Daanvi - Perfect Order
* Irian - Eternal Day
* Syrania - Azure Sky
* Lamannia - Twilight Forest
* Mabar - Endless Night
* Baator - Nine Hells <----which should be the home to the 9 archdukes.
* Shavarath - Battleground

Also House Vol used to worship the Raven Queen (aka Lady of Pain), so the cosmology between core D&D and Eberron overlap.

Definitive guide to Eberron lore.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7469132/Th...ory-of-Eberron

Pretty much explains it all.

Actually, the Raven Queen is a dead giveaway that this is a 4e source, since the Raven Queen doesn't exist AT ALL prior to the 4th edition Players' Handbook. And it's probably a BAD 4e source, since none of the official supplements mention the Raven Queen in any kind of Eberron context.

The Blood of Vol was started by (mostly elven) followers of House Vol that retained some of their necromantic practices, but who were not blood-relatives of the house.

They fled Aerenal when every living member of House Vol was exterminated by an alliance of the Undying Court and the dragons of Argonessen. The Undying Court didn't bother hunting down these remaining refugees because, frankly, they weren't a threat.

[Entelech]

Also, in Eberron, it's kinda important to keep clear on which bad guys one is dealing with:

The Inspired and the Dreaming Dark are one group.

The Lords of Dust (Rakshasas and other ancient demons) are their own group.

The Devils of Baator (or Shavarath, although Shavarath isn't technically their home) are a different group.

The Daelkyr (and the Mind Flayers, Beholders and other critters of Xoriat) are another different group.

The Dark Six are yet another separate pantheon of evil gods. (the Devourer cults on Korthos Island for example)

Then there's the Blood of Vol...you guessed it, another separate group...


And, finally, there's the generic catch-all phrase of "The Cults of the Dragon Below" which is not a terribly useful term. The term denotes any cult of nihilistic nutcases who worships some shadowy power. Often, not even the members of an individual group know the true nature of the shadowy figure they serve, which can be a member of any of the above categories.

To drive this fact home, a quest chain where several groups of bad guys are working against one another would be fun.


For example, a group of Shavarath Devils helping the party wipe out a group of Inspired would be a good plotline for Eberron. The Devils, put simply, don't want the Dreaming Dark to take over Eberron because then THEY can't have it.

Or, perhaps, the Dark Six and the Lords of Dust are coming into opposition and the PC's are caught in the middle. The Dark Six are, after all, originally part of the Sovereign Host, and would also oppose any attempt to revive one of the ancient Demon Lords.

[KKDragonLord]

Actually, the Raven Queen is a dead giveaway that this is a 4e source, since the Raven Queen doesn't exist AT ALL prior to the 4th edition Players' Handbook. And it's probably a BAD 4e source, since none of the official supplements mention the Raven Queen in any kind of Eberron context.

It is not a 4e source, it is a compilation of sources of all eberron books, most of it comes straight from 3E, where it all began. I didnt even see any mention of the 4e "revisions". It is indeed a fine source about the history of eberron.

But yeah, as i said, it is better for us all if the devs stay very well away from any of the generic pastiche content that 4e might have brought upon eberron, its a relatively ok setting by itself but whenever Keith loses control over it, and it happens quite often, some really stupid decisions are made by the Wizards that be.

[Entelech]

It is not a 4e source, it is a compilation of sources of all eberron books, most of it comes straight from 3E, where it all began. I didnt even see any mention of the 4e "revisions". It is indeed a fine source about the history of eberron.

But yeah, as i said, it is better for us all if the devs stay very well away from any of the generic pastiche content that 4e might have brought upon eberron, its a relatively ok setting by itself but whenever Keith loses control over it, and it happens quite often, some really stupid decisions are made by the Wizards that be.

I see the problem here. It's not that the source you linked is bad, it's that you either haven't read it or did not comprehend it. At no point does your source ever mention the Raven Queen.

But Erandis d’Vol had escaped and in time made her way to the Lhazaar Principalities, the island kingdoms ruled by pirate kings that made up the extreme eastern edge of Khorvaire.

Erandis, who now called herself simply Vol, the Lich Queen of the Dead, constructed her Illmarrow Castle among the ice-topped peaks of the Fingerbone Mountains of Farlnen, the largest island in the Lhazaar chain.

At Illmarrow, Vol nursed her grievances against both the Aereni and the Argonessen dragons who had killed her parents and wiped her house from the face of the world, forcing her to take on her foul undead state.

Vol, who was an immensely powerful wizard because of her special heritage, became determined to gain some measure of secular power that then could be used to unearth the necessary magical might required to destroy both the elves and the dragons of Eberron just as they had destroyed her family.

Over the centuries, Vol gathered followers—both living and undead alike—to her side and began to explore the ancient necromantic arts and the religious faith of the lost Qabalrin elves of Xen’drik. Vol used her knowledge of the Qabalrin to establish a new religion known as the Blood of Vol, which was largely based on the ancient Qabalrin’s own spiritual beliefs concerning necromancy and the undead. Cultists loyal to Vol spread word of her religion throughout the Lhazaar islands, and a handful of people among the Principalities and across Khorvaire consider it their primary religion, though the faith eventually gained its most loyal following among the people of Karrnath (see below).

Most followers of the faith knew nothing of Vol the lich or her history and plans for conquest and genocide. Instead, they worshipped the idea that blood was life and that undeath provided a better life beyond death than eternity in Dolurrh, as well as a path to divinity.

It's not WotC or the source material you linked that's guilty of the 'really stupid decisions' that lead to 'generic pastiche content'. It's people who post misleading nonsense on forums.

[ganondalf]

The Abyss is now simply the deepest part of Khyber... no radical change there.

Wait, so you're saying that....Demogorgon is just chilling under our feet?

[Entelech]

Sigh.

Not intending to start a flamewar here. Just had to refute some stuff that made me want to gouge my eyes out with a spork.

One of the things I love about Eberron - something that's intentionally designed into the setting according to multiple interviews with Kieth Baker - is that it's supposed to have some noir intrigue going on.

Not just Indiana Jones, but also the Maltese Falcon.

There are a *lot* of different organizations operating, and there is tremendous potential for stories about how competing factions are trying to advance their interests, double deal each other, and get the party caught in the middle.

There's not just the 'cosmological baddies' I listed earlier. There are scads of purely mortal organizations with competing interests.

The Aurum
The various Dragonmarked Houses
The governments of Breland, Thrane, Kaarnath, Droaam, Zilargo, etc...

Basically, for any given McGuffin you can think of, you can easily pick 2-5 groups who could all be engaged in a complicated struggle to obtain, control, or destroy it. Throw in a femme fatale and you've got yourself an instant adventure.

[Entelech]

Wait, so you're saying that....Demogorgon is just chilling under our feet?

Well...kinda...yes.

You've got to understand that, in Eberron cosmology, this was pretty much always the case. If you dig too far down, you stop being in Eberron and start being in Khyber. And the deeper you dig in Khyber, the weirder things get.

It's like this: If you do a "Jules Verne's Journey to the Center of the Earth" type of thing, you could well end up tunneling into a vast underground cavern ruled by a demon lord. It would be miles and miles down, but possible.

Expeditions into Khyber are one of the riskiest things you can do, but also possible sources of great reward. If you survive, you usually return with vast wealth, gibbering insanity, or both.

[ka0t1c1sm]

...and my personal favorite the Tarrasque.

We dealt a major blow to the Devils in Shavarath I'd like to do the same to the Demon side. This game needs a Balor general for us to take out. Battling a giant fire engulfed demon with a flaming whip and a vorpal sword of lightning would be epic.

These two, most enthusiastically /signed.

[Diyon]

These two, most enthusiastically /signed.

I want to see the Tarrasque in a nonraid setting (because I don't want to see it get pushed around by twelve people, IT should be doing the pushing). Complete with super immunities, SR, spell reflection, DR, regeneration, and propensity for devouring living things in front of it.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

We should have a quest on top of the tarrasque