No Improved UMD?

[SisAmethyst]

If it's so easy to hit 44+ it wouldn't be an issue to have a Skill:UMD line then would it ? You of course wouldn't need to take it but it may suit other builds.

The items to bump UMD that high - like the 7-Fingered Gloves - are either raid gear, shroud items (CHA skill) or otherwise named and have usually a ML. Being able to have something like 'Skill: Improved UMD' which even not take a slot of any gear, would make it available for a lot more players without the need to grind those items. But UMD is a too powerfull skill to give it away that easy, making it easy to buff you, use wands, heal and rez scrolls along with all items that need you to overcome a restriction (why needing a healer or caster anymore?).

Also keep in mind that +5 UMD on an item is equivalent with 10 skill points in UMD for every character other then a rogue. Which means factoring this into your build plan you could use those 10 points on other skills like balance, intimidate or whatever instead putting them in UMD. Not to mention that base skills and enhancements would stack with items.

Players who say it is easy to gain +44 UMD play probably since quite a while and have those items, but the majority of the casual player have not, but as it is possible to reach those values I not see the reason to dump down that game any further.

just my 2 cents

[Feylina]

Bear in mind though that the skill has a level requirement based on the level of the class that qualifies for that skill.

It's not like a character with 1 level of rogue will be able to gain 4 umd for 4 ap. they would qualify for 1 point.

[Emili]

No, there is no reason for improved Heal skill in the game. I would gladly take improved UMD on both my pure rogue and bard.

I been screaming for years that UMD is over powered and you're asking for more?

The last classes which should ever have issues with umd... My first bard is old and I had to repsec her to remove some (the skill focus feat) when I took a PrE at the time a few years ago... she could reach over a 50 umd back when level cap was 16 - made little sense.

Today my rogue - whos and assasin and started with a cha dump-stat has a 40, my chanter has a 44 and the spell singer is still higher than both those with no failure on any scrolls just standing there, unbuffed I even I retired 7 finger gloves on her... go figure.

[Feylina]

I been screaming for years that UMD is over powered and you're asking for more?

The last classes which should ever have issues with umd... My first bard is old and I had to repsec her to remove some (the skill focus feat) when I took a PrE at the time a few years ago... she could reach over a 50 umd back when level cap was 16 - made little sense.

Today my rogue - whos and assasin and started with a cha dump-stat has a 40, my chanter has a 44 and the spell singer is still higher than both those with no failure on any scrolls just standing there, unbuffed I even I retired 7 finger gloves on her... go figure.

Lol these are all posts in favor of having the enhancement. exta umd is not overpowered in that the classes that can use it can easily gain no fail on scrolls etc. splash classes (1 rogue / bard etc) won't qualify for more than 1 level of the enhancement so that's not really an issue.

So this then becomes a boost for the new undergeared toon to help them along til they can get the gear they need then perhaps drop the umd enhancements for better ones. Or even free up a feat (SF: UMD) for a more useful one.

help out the n00bies folks by all accounts it is not gamebreaking at all and i see no need to exclude it as an enhancement option.

[toughguyjoe]

Lol these are all posts in favor of having the enhancement. exta umd is not overpowered in that the classes that can use it can easily gain no fail on scrolls etc. splash classes (1 rogue / bard etc) won't qualify for more than 1 level of the enhancement so that's not really an issue.

So this then becomes a boost for the new undergeared toon to help them along til they can get the gear they need then perhaps drop the umd enhancements for better ones. Or even free up a feat (SF: UMD) for a more useful one.

help out the n00bies folks by all accounts it is not gamebreaking at all and i see no need to exclude it as an enhancement option.

Of course, letting people who don't focus in an INCREDIBLY POWERFUL skill should be able to get that skill higher quicker, because you know...being able to emulate many of a clerics abilities, or some of a wizards abilities should be easy right?

the way the enhancements and the way UMD are set up right now it is not exactly easy to get to a 40 UMD without investing some swap slots and making sure you can hit the magic numbers. If people are able to do it now, MAKING IT EASIER is unnecessary.

I have no idea why you think that argument is opposite. If it already can be done, people don't need help doing it. There is a reason some things require time and effort. Getting a respectable UMD score should be one of them.

[Feylina]

How exactly is getting 39 umd not easy?

00 - 10 base charisma
23 - level ups
04 - gh clicky
06 - shroud item
03 - +6 char item
01 - +2 char tome
03 - Golden Cartouche
---------
40 Tadah! heck you can start with 8 charisma for 39.


The whole point of this thread is to point out how Easy it is to hit the "magic number", way easier than hitting say no fail intim on the hound or searching traps on epic. And because it is rediculously easy there is no reason whatsoever to discriminate against it in the enhancements as the only people it would really help would be newbies.

Another thing people seem to be missing is that the enhancements are based on the level of the class that qualifies for the skill. Improved UMD would look like this

lvl 1 bard / rogue = Improved UMD I
lvl 4 bard / rogue = Improved UMD II
lvl 8 bard / rogue = Improved UMD III
lvl 12 bard / rogue = Improved UMD IV

This qualification based on class level by no means opens up the ability to boost a low rogue level / bard level toon.
I better post that info on the main page.

[Rav'n]

How exactly is getting 39 umd not easy?

00 - 10 base charisma
23 - level ups
04 - gh clicky
06 - shroud item
03 - +6 char item
01 - +2 char tome
03 - Golden Cartouche
---------
40 Tadah! heck you can start with 8 charisma for 39.

So why do we need an enhancement line on it? So Bards/Rogues can Dump Stat CHA? I can see no other reason why. All the bumps you posted for UMD are easy to attain. Heck, you missed HoGF (+2)... which might be a little bit of a grind, but not much. With a CHA of 10, that takes you to a 42. you only fail on a 1 on anything.

[azrael4h]

Players who say it is easy to gain +44 UMD play probably since quite a while and have those items, but the majority of the casual player have not, but as it is possible to reach those values I not see the reason to dump down that game any further.

just my 2 cents

I haven't played for "quite awhile" at all, and I say there is no need to boost UMD any. My Paladin right now unbuffed easily breaks 20 at level 12, while no no-fail Heal Scroll territory, I send those to my Cleric anyway. My Ranger is even lower level, and has similar numbers thanks to a Rogue splash. Both could do with some better equipment, and there are easily obtained items which boost CHA skills (including UMD) which can give a situational boost. My level 5 Sorcerer carries a CLW wand for occasional use as well.


UMD is easily the most powerful skill in the game, in no fashion does it need a boost of any kind. Yes you have to build for it, that is how it should be. You should not be able to no-fail anything without working towards that goal.

[Rav'n]

UMD is easily the most powerful skill in the game, in no fashion does it need a boost of any kind. Yes you have to build for it, that is how it should be. You should not be able to no-fail anything without working towards that goal.

Ding ding ding!!! Give that man a cookie... or... a little forum 'luv'!

[Dragonhyde]

Is it needed not really but then are any of the other skill enhancements "needed"? I personally think umd needs some loving from the devs in the way of making some umd-able items at the upper end of the umd spectrum . A quest where you had to umd a giant relic in order to complete a goal for extra chest would be fun too :P

[toughguyjoe]

How exactly is getting 39 umd not easy?

00 - 10 base charisma
23 - level ups
04 - gh clicky
06 - shroud item
03 - +6 char item
01 - +2 char tome
03 - Golden Cartouche
---------
40 Tadah! heck you can start with 8 charisma for 39.


The whole point of this thread is to point out how Easy it is to hit the "magic number", way easier than hitting say no fail intim on the hound or searching traps on epic. And because it is rediculously easy there is no reason whatsoever to discriminate against it in the enhancements as the only people it would really help would be newbies.

Another thing people seem to be missing is that the enhancements are based on the level of the class that qualifies for the skill. Improved UMD would look like this

lvl 1 bard / rogue = Improved UMD I
lvl 4 bard / rogue = Improved UMD II
lvl 8 bard / rogue = Improved UMD III
lvl 12 bard / rogue = Improved UMD IV

This qualification based on class level by no means opens up the ability to boost a low rogue level / bard level toon.
I better post that info on the main page.

Wow. Just wow. You continue to prove your own suggestion completely unnecessary. Bravo.

[Bodic]

There's no UMD skill booster period.
Except for a few named items (Big top, golden cartouche, runic gloves) who won't give more that +3 there's no item that boost UMD either.
This should help you understand why this skill has no enhancement improving it.

7F's are +5 the last time I looked at mine but I guess I am special.

and they said that you could get all class skills in AP except for UMD they dont want to make it to overpower'D

[azrael4h]

Is it needed not really but then are any of the other skill enhancements "needed"? I personally think umd needs some loving from the devs in the way of making some umd-able items at the upper end of the umd spectrum . A quest where you had to umd a giant relic in order to complete a goal for extra chest would be fun too :P

I think the only time I've taken any skill enhancements were because I needed to qualify for a PrE. And I'm having a time thinking of any, actually. I think if they were removed entirely, there would be absolutely no impact on the game, save some builds would have more AP to spend.

[Deathseeker]

I look at this a bit differently...

I'd like to see the enhancements added, but as part of the Half Elf Delitante feat. That would give a racial option to pump umd instead of just a class option. As Half Elf right now is a bit lacking, I think this would be a nice feature (using the Half Elf Bard Delitante feat as a pre-req).

This would open up some other builds to self-healing that otherwise would have to reach to get no fail heal scrolls (at least save a couple of gear slots if nothing else). Since you'd be sacrificing DPS in general by going Half-Elf, I think this would be a nice benefit to offset that.