Tempest Trapmonkey for new players (28-pt human & dwarf)

[Bolo_Grubb]

thanks I just used this as the basis for my 2 rogue/18 ranger build

[BOgre]

so, I'm reading that after a certain point i won't be wearing armor with this build, but using circumstance apporpriate outfits instead. I'm not sure I understand this.
Why does armor become no good anymore? I mean, with the fighter splashl I can wear any armor, can't I?
So, I'll assume that someone will tell me why that is and move on to the next question, WHEN does this become an issue, and what should I be looking for in terms of loot to compensate for it?

[unbongwah]

At lower lvls, it's fairly easy to have decent-ish AC with that ftr splash, esp. if you go dwarf and take an Armor Mastery enh or two. Past a certain point, though (usually Gianthold, possibly sooner), this build (along with lots of others) is unable to have high enough AC to be useful: no CE, no monk splash (a la Exploiter), none of the AC boosts that Stalwart Defender or DoS provide ftr & pally tanks, good but not exceptional DEX, etc. That's also about when you'll get Evasion from rgr 9, which requires light armor or robes. So at that point, you'll chose your armor based on other bonuses it provides: DR, elemental resist, guard effects, False Life, etc.

[BOgre]

Excellent reply, thanks. So I'm hearing that the main reasons are: 1) what i don't get that other classes do to help with AC, and 2) what i do get (evasion) that makes me want to stay with light/robes, which occurs at rng 9, 2 levels away.
Ok, what kinds of gear can I expect to find? That is, I've come across plenty of 'robe of lesser lightning guard' or something like that, but they didn't really seem all that stellar. Any idea what I should be keeping my eyes peeled for?

[Meetch1972]

Excellent reply, thanks. So I'm hearing that the main reasons are: 1) what i don't get that other classes do to help with AC, and 2) what i do get (evasion) that makes me want to stay with light/robes, which occurs at rng 9, 2 levels away.
Ok, what kinds of gear can I expect to find? That is, I've come across plenty of 'robe of lesser lightning guard' or something like that, but they didn't really seem all that stellar. Any idea what I should be keeping my eyes peeled for?

Ultimately, when question you want these sorts of things:
* All appropriate Greater resistances. As you're a ranger, you can cast that, so the only time it becomes handy on your gear is when you meet a beholder and his elemental friends. Of course, if you see THAT coming, you can get the beholder-proof resistances from ship buffs instead. But having gear to absorb fire/cold damage could be handy in the subterrane if you're feeling fragile.
* Deathblock. Prevents stat drains.
* Guards. If you can absorb the punishment, your armor/other guard items can do some of the crowd control and/or killing work for you. Walking into a room full of fire mephits? Wear that frost guard item. The frostier the better. Trolls? Acid guard is good. etc. Then there are the more special guards that can be crafted with your GreenSteel items or Dragontouched armor. DR helps enormously with a guard based ("HIT ME, I DARE YA!") build.
* Poison Immunity. Disease Immunity. Blindness Immunity. You can craft those and deathblock into one GreenSteel item without too much effort, but there are goggles and jewellery that will grant what you need. Get them, switch between them as you need. Note that these do not cure afflictions, only prevent them.
* Damage Reduction. Reduces damage, depending on the type that it says it works for. It makes the mob see yellow numbers when hitting you... When U9 comes, you may or may not also want to investigate the DR benefits of a shield for your build. Axe block/Spear block/Hammer block/Invulnerability items won't stack, but having them all may prevent a lot of physical damage in a long fight.
* False Life. Greater False Life is better. More hit points, yeah!
* Fortification. The best you can get for your level. There's a reason why you see many high levels wearing the same face covering helmet - minos legens is easy to get and very useful in that it gives you Heavy Fort, and also extra toughness (stacking hp with False Life effects). You may eventually eliminate the need for it, but would take a while to gear.

There's probably other stuff...

If you want to have useful AC, look around at what useful figures are. At level 20, 40AC might as well be 0AC, and your survivability is determined by how quickly you can bring down whatever it is that's trying to kill you, combined with how effective your party teamwork is.

But yeah, rangers usually wear robes. See about joining Icy runs for Icy Raiments (pretty good AC item for ~level 15) and DragonTouched robes/shroud which has thousands of combinations - I have one robe for AC (slightly better than Icy raiments) and one with Disintegration Guard, Corrosive Salt Guard, and hopefully exceptional strength +3 soon.

Named loot will also be your friend.

Edit: Don't sweat gear too much yet! But keep an eye out for bargains in the AH and see what people are dumping in the pawn shops.

I'll shut up now. Gotta get back to work. Cheers!

[BOgre]

Thanks for the WoT. I'll be printing it for when I hit my teens.

[unbongwah]

If you're at least lvl 9 and don't already have Heavy Fortification, follow JollySwagMan's guide on how to get a heavy fort necklace for free.

[BOgre]

wrong thread for this question, pm me if you care, but with this dandy new fort necklace (wow that was fun!), how will it stack with evasion, if at all?

[unbongwah]

I'm not sure I understand your question; they're two separate things. Fortification protects you from sneak attacks & critical hits. Evasion effects anything which requires a Reflex save (i.e., most traps & DPS spells); succeed on your saving throw and you take no dmg. Since taking even half-dmg from some spells (esp. on hard or elite) can be a lot of dmg, Evasion can be a literal (virtual) life-saver.

[BOgre]

it's all good. answered already.

[BuffNut]

I'm a newb...and very intrigued by this discussion (so much to learn...)

If the big deal about dual wielding Koepesh's is due to their very good critical hit properties, then why not take the last two feats as Weapon Focus: Slashing and then Power Critical?

I don't understand the math of all this so well, yet. But it seems to me that when combined with the Improved Critical:Slashing, all the Attack bonuses from enhancements and the enhancement Fighter Critical Accuracy -- it might be possible to haul out much more damage with the many attacks of this build if you add these feats. Perhaps someone could explain how that might make sense or not.

Also, if you take Power Critical at l20, even though it was dependent upon taking a Weapon Focus, does the Power Crit then apply to all attacks? (say including ranged weapons?)

Thanks!

[zwiebelring]

Depends on your endgear. Mineral2 Kopeshs do not need Improved Critical because they have keen ability. Anyway IC gives a bigger range on dps since you could use Lit2 Kopeshs who do not have keen.

I would take Improved Critical on lvl. 9 or 12 if possible to have more benefit from found weapons. Later it could be swapped.

Power Critical doesn't seem very viable to me. In endgame you usually have enough attack bonus to confirm critical hits. If you don't have any divine power clicky and have a big loss in BAB it eventually is worth a look.

I would not take it.

[FlyingTurtle]

I don't understand the math of all this so well, yet. But it seems to me that when combined with the Improved Critical:Slashing, all the Attack bonuses from enhancements and the enhancement Fighter Critical Accuracy -- it might be possible to haul out much more damage with the many attacks of this build if you add these feats. Perhaps someone could explain how that

Power critical adds +4 to confirm a crit. Weapon focus adds +1 to hit. Neither feat adds to damage. No melee should never have any problems hitting or confirming a crit, from mid-high levels. So they are both very low payoff feats for builds without many to spare (I can see them on a primary fighter build though)

[BuffNut]

Thanks guys

If I understand you both correctly, then, there is a point at which no amount of additional bonus affects whether or not a swing will result in a critical hit. I was simplistically thinking that with enough bonus I could roll a 2 and still score a crit.

[unbongwah]

I've added an elf version to the 2nd post for all the pointy-eared lovers out there. [You know who you are. ] I've also redone the enhancements on all three builds to show what they look like at lvls 8 / 14 / 20 (i.e., the Tempest break points) to help guide newbies as to what enhs they should take while leveling to minimize unnecessary respecs.

[GuntherBovine]

What would a 32 point human version look like?

[unbongwah]

What would a 32 point human version look like?

You have a few options as far as stats go:

• 18 / 14 / 14 / 12 / 8 / 8 - max STR, a little less CON
• 18 / 14 / 16 / 8 / 8 / 8 - max STR and extra CON but w/INT 8; that's still enough to max Search, Disable, and UMD with pts left over for, say, Spot or Open Lock.
• 16 / 14 / 16 / 14 / 8 / 8 - extra CON & INT, for people who like HPs & skill pts more than max DPS.
• 16 / 14 / 15 / 12 / 12 / 8 - bump up WIS so you can take a +2 WIS tome and not need a WIS item to cast spells. [Also gives +2 Will saves, though I'm not convinced that's enough to matter.] I think this only makes sense if you're going for a monk splash (a la Exploiter), though, so you can also get the extra AC.

Basically, the idea is to use those extra stat pts to beef up what you think is more important: DPS, HPs, skill pts, etc. The only stats I wouldn't bother putting them in is DEX & CHA.

[GuntherBovine]

Thanks for the reply! I didn't see an obvious place to put the extra points and I guess there isn't one.

[zwiebelring]

In doubt push up INT so you can have UMD covered with ease.

[unbongwah]

In doubt push up INT so you can have UMD covered with ease.

The beauty of rogue-splashed rangers is you could have INT 8 and still have enough to bump up UMD (2), Disable (2), and Search (1) every rgr lvl, which are the most important skills. Humans get 1 extra skill pt per lvl, so they'd be able to bump up Spot or Open Lock as well.

That said, "when in doubt, go for more skill pts!" is also my rule of thumb too.