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  1. #1
    Community Member mediocresurgeon's Avatar
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    Mar 2006
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    Default Best Half Orc Barbarian Weapon?

    Spyderwolf asked me to crunch some numbers in order to figure out what the best DPS weapon style for half orcs will be in U7. Here are the results:

    • Epic Sword of Shadows, Epic Marilith Chain, and Litany of the Dead deals the best DPS versus Devil raid bosses on normal.
    • Epic Sword of Shadows, Epic Marilith Chain, and Litany of the Dead deals the best DPS versus Queen Lailat on epic.
    • Epic Sword of Shadows, Red Dragonscale Robe, and Bloodstone is tied with Epic Sword of Shadows, Epic Marilith Chain, and Litany of the Dead for best DPS against Epic Named monsters.
    • Mineral II Heavy Picks with Red Dragonscale Robe and Bloodstone deals the best DPS versus Epic trash monsters.


    Equipment:


    Sustainable Strength: 68 (+29)
    • 20 base
    • 5 levels
    • 3 tome
    • 6 enhancement
    • 1 exceptional
    • 2 exceptional
    • 2 capstone
    • Frenzied Berserker ToD set
    • 14 barbarian rage
    • 4 deathless frenzy
    • 2 frenzy
    • 2 rage spell
    • 2 yugoloth potion
    • 3 profane



    Buffs:
    • Maxed Warchanter Songs (+9 damage)
    • Prayer (+1 damage)
    • Barbarian Rage (augmented critical)
    • Deathless Frenzy (+4d6 untyped damage)
    • Frenzy (+2d6 untyped damage)
    • Haste



    Assumptions:
    • Rate of attack for BAB +20 THF half-orc with greatsword is 99 attacks per minute (unverified).
    • Rate of attack for BAB +20 TWF half-orc with heavy picks is 106 attacks per minute (unverified).
    • Power Attack is maxed (-11 to hit, +11/+22 damage).
    • THF styles will have an additional +4 damage from half orc THF enhancements.
    • Attack rolls of 2 hit.
    • Critical hits automatically confirm.
    • THF styles will have Two Handed Fighting, Improved Two Handed Fighting, and Greater Two Handed Fighting
    • TWF styles will have Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, and Greater Two Weapon Fighting.
    • If the weapon is not keen, the user has the associated Improved Critical feat.
    • All weapons have Force Damage ritual.
    • Vicious damage from Deathless Frenzy and Frenzy have 100% proc rate on glancing blows (not working as intended).
    • Weapon effects (such as burst damage) do not take into account raging augmented critical. (Working as intended?)
    • Although impossible in actual gameplay, THF user is standing still during all attacks.



    WALL OF NUMBERS!
    Style 1: Epic Sword of Shadows, Red Dragonscale, Bloodstone
    Situation 1: DR 15, 50% Fortification, Acid Resistance 20, Fire Immune (Suulomades, Arraetrikos & Horoth; normal)
    Average Damage Per Second: 388.907
    Glancing Blows: 0.75 * [0.6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1) + 0.2 * (1) + (4d6 + 2d6) -15] = 56.175 damage
    (2-14) Non-critical: (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 177.675 damage
    (15-18) Critical (x3): 3 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 424.675 damage
    (19-20) Super-Critical (x6): 6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 786.175 damage
    Average Damage Per Attack: 235.701
    Attacks Per Minute: 99
    Situation 2: DR 20, 0% Fortification, Acid Resistance 30, Fire Resistance 150 (Queen Lailat; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 470.213
    Glancing Blows: 0.75 * [0.6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1) + 0.2 * (1) + (4d6 + 2d6) -20] = 52.425 damage
    (2-14) Non-critical: (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 20 + glancing blow = 168.925 damage
    (15-18) Critical (x3): 3 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 20 + glancing blow = 415.925 damage
    (19-20) Super-Critical (x6): 6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 20 + glancing blow = 777.425 damage
    Average Damage Per Attack: 284.978
    Attacks Per Minute: 99
    Situation 3: No DR, 0% Fortification, no elemental resistances (Red Named; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 540.336
    Glancing Blows: 0.75 * [0.6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1) + 0.2 * (1d6 + 1) + (4d6 + 2d6)] = 67.95 damage
    (2-14) Non-critical: (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1) + glancing blow = 207.95 damage
    (15-18) Critical (x3): 3 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1 + 2d10) + glancing blow = 465.95 damage
    (19-20) Super-Critical (x6): 6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1 + 2d10) + glancing blow = 827.45 damage
    Average Damage Per Attack: 327.476
    Attacks Per Minute: 99
    Situation 4: No DR, 0% Fortification, Autocritical (Trash; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 831.604
    Glancing Blows: 0.75 * [0.6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1) + 0.2 * (1d6 + 1) + (4d6 + 2d6)] = 67.95 damage
    (2-18) Critical (x3): 3 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1 + 2d10) + glancing blow = 465.95 damage
    (19-20) Super-Critical (x6): 6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1 + 2d10) + glancing blow = 827.45 damage
    Average Damage Per Attack: 504.003
    Attacks Per Minute: 99

    Style 2: Epic Sword of Shadows, Epic Marilith Chain, Litany of the Dead
    Situation 1: DR 15, 50% Fortification, Acid Resistance 20 (Suulomades, Arraetrikos & Horoth; normal)
    Average Damage Per Second: 396.250
    Glancing Blows: 0.75 * [0.6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + 0.2 * (1) + (4d6 + 2d6) -15] = 56.625 damage
    (2-14) Non-critical: (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 179.125 damage
    (15-18) Critical (x3): 3 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 440.125 damage
    (19-20) Super-Critical (x6): 6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 816.625 damage
    Average Damage Per Attack: 240.151
    Attacks Per Minute: 99
    Situation 2: DR 20, 0% Fortification, Acid Resistance 30, Fire Resistance 150 (Queen Lailat; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 482.506
    Glancing Blows: 0.75 * [0.6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + 0.2 * (1) + (4d6 + 2d6) -20] = 52.875 damage
    (2-14) Non-critical: (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 20 + glancing blow = 170.375 damage
    (15-18) Critical (x3): 3 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 20 + glancing blow = 431.375 damage
    (19-20) Super-Critical (x6): 6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 20 + glancing blow = 807.875 damage
    Average Damage Per Attack: 292.428
    Attacks Per Minute: 99
    Situation 3: No DR, 0% Fortification, no elemental resistances (Red Named; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 540.256
    Glancing Blows: 0.75 * [0.6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + 0.2 * (1) + (4d6 + 2d6)] = 67.875 damage
    (2-14) Non-critical: (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) + glancing blow = 205.375 damage
    (15-18) Critical (x3): 3 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) + glancing blow = 466.375 damage
    (19-20) Super-Critical (x6): 6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) + glancing blow = 842.875 damage
    Average Damage Per Attack: 327.428
    Attacks Per Minute: 99
    Situation 4: No DR, 0% Fortification, Autocritical (Trash; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 834.911
    Glancing Blows: 0.75 * [0.6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + 0.2 * (1) + (4d6 + 2d6)] = 67.875 damage
    (2-18) Critical (x3): 3 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) + glancing blow = 466.375 damage
    (19-20) Super-Critical (x6): 6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) + glancing blow = 842.875 damage
    Average Damage Per Attack: 506.007
    Attacks Per Minute: 99

    Style 3: Acid/Pure Good Burst/Acid Blast Heavy Picks, Red Dragonscale, Bloodstone
    Situation 1: DR 15, 50% Fortification, Acid Resistance 20 (Suulomades, Arraetrikos & Horoth; normal)
    Average Damage Per Second: 355.874
    (2-18) Off Non-critical: 1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 1 = 80.5 damage
    (19) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 458.5 damage
    (20) Off Blast Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + (1d6 + 3d10 + 4d6 - 20) = 467 damage
    Average Damage Per Off: 101.074
    (2-18) Main Non-Critical: 1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 +1d4 + 1 = 95.5 damage
    (19) Main Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 563.5 damage
    (20) Main Blast Super Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + (1d6 + 3d10 + 4d6 - 20) = 572 damage
    Average Damage Per Main: 120.579
    Attacks Per Minute: 106
    Situation 2: DR 20, 0% Fortification, Acid Resistance 30, Fire Resistance 150 (Queen Lailat; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 425.757
    (2-18) Off Non-critical: 1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 +1d4 + 1 = 80.5 damage
    (19-20) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 458.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Off: 120.289
    (2-18) Main Non-Critical: 1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 +1d4 + 1 = 95.5 damage
    (19-20) Main Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 563.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Main: 144.763
    Attacks Per Minute: 106
    Situation 3: No DR, 0% Fortification, no elemental resistances (Red Named; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 460.142
    (2-18) Off Non-critical: 1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 +1d4 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 = 86.5 damage
    (19) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 3d10 = 498.5 damage
    (20) Off Blast Super-Critical: 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 3d10 + 4d6 = 512.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Off: 130.605
    (2-18) Main Non-Critical: 1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 +1d4 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 = 102.5 damage
    (19) Main Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 3d10 = 603.5 damage
    (20) Main Blast Super-Critical: 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 3d10 + 4d6 = 617.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Main: 155.974
    Attacks Per Minute: 106
    Situation 4: No DR, 0% Fortification, Autocritical (Trash; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 1202.598
    (2-18) Off Critical (x4): 4 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 3d10 = 323 damage
    (19) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 3d10 = 498.5 damage
    (20) Off Blast Super-Critical: 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 3d10 + 4d6 = 512.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Off: 342.211
    (2-18) Main Critical (x4): 4 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 3d10 = 383 damage
    (19) Main Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 3d10 = 603.5 damage
    (20) Main Blast Super-Critical: 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 6) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 3d10 + 4d6 = 617.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Main: 406.947
    Attacks Per Minute: 106

    Style 4: Acid/Pure Good Burst/Acid Blast Heavy Picks, Epic Marilith Chain, Litany of the Dead
    Situation 1: DR 15, 50% Fortification, Acid Resistance 20 (Suulomades, Arraetrikos & Horoth; normal)
    Average Damage Per Second: 363.943
    (2-18) Off Non-critical: 1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 1 = 81.5 damage
    (19) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 493.5 damage
    (20) Off Blast Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + (1d6 + 3d10 + 4d6 - 20) = 507.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Off: 103.921
    (2-18) Main Non-Critical: 1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 +1d4 + 1 = 96.5 damage
    (19) Main Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 598.5 damage
    (20) Main Blast Super Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + (1d6 + 3d10 + 4d6 - 20) = 612.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Main: 122.868
    Attacks Per Minute: 106
    Situation 2: DR 20, 0% Fortification, Acid Resistance 30, Fire Resistance 150 (Queen Lailat; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 440.988
    (2-18) Off Non-critical: 1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 1 = 81.5 damage
    (19) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 493.5 damage
    (20) Off Blast Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + (1d6 + 3d10 + 4d6 - 30) = 497.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Off: 125.079
    (2-18) Main Non-Critical: 1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 +1d4 + 1 = 96.5 damage
    (19) Main Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 598.5 damage
    (20) Main Blast Super Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + (1d6 + 3d10 + 4d6 - 30) = 602.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Main: 149.553
    Attacks Per Minute: 106
    Situation 3: No DR, 0% Fortification, no elemental resistances (Red Named; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 446.009
    (2-18) Off Non-critical: 1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 1 = 81.5 damage
    (19) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 493.5 damage
    (20) Off Blast Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 4d6 = 527.5
    Average Damage Per Off: 126.658
    (2-18) Main Non-Critical: 1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 +1d4 + 1 = 96.5 damage
    (19) Main Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 598.5 damage
    (20) Main Blast Super Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 4d6 = 632.5
    Average Damage Per Main: 151.132
    Attacks Per Minute: 106
    Situation 4: No DR, 0% Fortification, Autocritical (Trash; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 1147.366
    (2-18) Off Critical (x4): 4 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 303 damage
    (19) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 493.5 damage
    (20) Off Blast Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 4d6 = 527.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Off: 324.842
    (2-18) Main Critical (x4): 4 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 363 damage
    (19) Main Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 = 598.5 damage
    (20) Main Blast Super Critical (x7): 7 * (1d8 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 10 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 1d4 + 6d6 + 1 + 1d6 + 3d10 + 4d6 = 632.5 damage
    Average Damage Per Main: 389.579
    Attacks Per Minute: 106

    Style 5: Deathnips, Red Dragonscale, Litany of the Dead
    Situation 1: DR 15, 50% Fortification, Acid Resistance 20 (Suulomades, Arraetrikos & Horoth; normal)
    Average Damage Per Second: 325.587
    (2-16) Off Non-critical: 1d6 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 - 15 = 59.5 damage
    (17-18) Off Critical (x4): 4 * (1d6 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 - 15 = 259.5 damage
    (19-20) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d6 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 - 15 = 441 damage
    Average Damage Per Off: 90.105
    (2-16) Main Non-Critical: 1d6 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 - 15 = 74.5
    (17-18) Main Critical (x4): 4 * (1d6 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 - 15 = 319.5 damage
    (19-20) Main Super Critical (x7): 7 * (1d6 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 - 15 = 546 damage
    Average Damage Per Main: 112.211
    Attacks Per Minute: 106
    Situation 2: DR 20, 0% Fortification, Acid Resistance 30, Fire Resistance 150 (Queen Lailat; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 419.565
    (2-16) Off Non-critical: 1d6 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 - 20 = 54.5 damage
    (17-18) Off Critical (x4): 4 * (1d6 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 - 20 = 254.5 damage
    (19-20) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d6 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 - 20 = 436 damage
    Average Damage Per Off: 115.711
    (2-16) Main Non-Critical: 1d6 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 - 20 = 69.5 damage
    (17-18) Main Critical (x4): 4 * (1d6 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 - 20 = 314.5 damage
    (19-20) Main Super Critical (x7): 7 * (1d6 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 - 20 = 541 damage
    Average Damage Per Main: 144.921
    Attacks Per Minute: 106
    Situation 3: No DR, 0% Fortification, no elemental resistances (Red Named; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 505.341
    (2-16) Off Non-critical: 1d6 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 1d6 = 78 damage
    (17-18) Off Critical (x4): 4 * (1d6 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 = 294.5 damage
    (19-20) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d6 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 + 1d6 + 3d10= 476 damage
    Average Damage Per Off: 142.684
    (2-16) Main Non-Critical: 1d6 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 +1d6 = 93 damage
    (17-18) Main Critical (x4): 4 * (1d6 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 = 354.5 damage
    (19-20) Main Super Critical (x7): 7 * (1d6 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 = 581 damage
    Average Damage Per Main: 171.895
    Attacks Per Minute: 106
    Situation 4: No DR, 0% Fortification, Autocritical (Trash; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 1111.633
    (2-18) Off Critical (x4): 4 * (1d6 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 = 294.5 damage
    (19-20) Off Super-Critical (x7): 7 * (1d6 + 14 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 = 476 damage
    Average Damage Per Off: 313.605
    (2-18) Main Critical (x4): 4 * (1d6 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 = 354.5 damage
    (19-20) Main Super Critical (x7): 7 * (1d6 + 29 + 11 + 5 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 8 + 1) + 4d6 + 2d6 + 1 + 3d6 + 1d6 + 3d10 = 581 damage
    Average Damage Per Main: 378.342
    Attacks Per Minute: 106
    Last edited by mediocresurgeon; 09-30-2010 at 04:33 AM.

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  2. #2
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    I recommend you use the same source for your attack speeds. Different sources will have different experimental results simply because of different setups (different computers, network speeds, testing methods, etc.). For example, my data gives 86 swings per minute for THF base, Monkey_Archer's data gives 88 swings per minute for THF base, cforce's data (which is used in Absolute-Omniscience's DPS calc) gives 89 swings per minute, and your own data gives 83 swings per minute. It's not particularly important which one you pick, since what's important is the relative DPS of different setups, but it's important that you use the same source so that there won't be errors due to using different setups for testing the attack speeds.

  3. #3
    Community Member mediocresurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanshilar View Post
    I recommend you use the same source for your attack speeds. Different sources will have different experimental results simply because of different setups (different computers, network speeds, testing methods, etc.). For example, my data gives 86 swings per minute for THF base, Monkey_Archer's data gives 88 swings per minute for THF base, cforce's data (which is used in Absolute-Omniscience's DPS calc) gives 89 swings per minute, and your own data gives 83 swings per minute. It's not particularly important which one you pick, since what's important is the relative DPS of different setups, but it's important that you use the same source so that there won't be errors due to using different setups for testing the attack speeds.
    I completely agree. However, cforce's attack speed chart was last updated when the level cap was 16, making it too outdated for use. Also, Monkey_Archer uses calculated, rather than experimental, data to determine the attacks per minute of THF so I used my own experimental data.

    If there is a level 20 half-orc with BAB +20 on Lamania who is willing to supply me with attack speed data for THF or TWF (or both) please let me know so I can post verifiable data!

    *continues to crunch numbers*

    EDIT:
    Number crunching now complete.
    Last edited by mediocresurgeon; 09-30-2010 at 07:06 AM.

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    Community Member Absolute-Omniscience's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediocresurgeon View Post
    I completely agree. However, cforce's attack speed chart was last updated when the level cap was 16, making it too outdated for use.
    Actually, he updated them for me in U2, aka the latest update where attackspeed was changed. (Well, we'll need new ones for half orc now).

    However, if you refer to the OLD thread, it hasn't been updated to my knowledge.
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    just curious, why acid/pure good and not holy/acid on the GS weapons?
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    Community Member mediocresurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSteel View Post
    just curious, why acid/pure good and not holy/acid on the GS weapons?
    I didn't ask why he specified Acid/Pure Good Burst instead of Holy/Acid Burst, but I suspect it was to deal better damage to neutral creatures on Epic difficulty.

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    Community Member mediocresurgeon's Avatar
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    The numbers have been crunched. It looks like TWF is still the best trash-killer (by far!) but eSOS is the way to go against named monsters and raid bosses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mediocresurgeon View Post
    I completely agree. However, cforce's attack speed chart was last updated when the level cap was 16, making it too outdated for use. Also, Monkey_Archer uses calculated, rather than experimental, data to determine the attacks per minute of THF so I used my own experimental data.

    If there is a level 20 half-orc with BAB +20 on Lamania who is willing to supply me with attack speed data for THF or TWF (or both) please let me know so I can post verifiable data!
    Yes, but this means that it introduces a source of error by relying on data from different sources for different parts of the comparison.

    For example, using my data, THF would have a swings per minute of 100.3, while TWF would have a swings per minute of 102.0, a difference of around 1.7%. Using Monkey_Archer's data, the two are identical, for a difference of 0%. But under your formulation, with one at 99 swings per minute and the other at 106, the difference is around 7% between the two styles. It's unknown if this difference in the relative speeds is due to taking data from different sources or due to an actual difference between the styles.

    Fortunately however it looks like the category where TWF is superior isn't even close so this shouldn't affect the relative rankings.

    Anyway, minor nit: I think glancing blows actually have a proc rate of 26% for a maxed half-orc barbarian. The numbers are from:

    9% THF, ITHF, GTHF (3% each)
    6% FB 1, FB 2, FB 3 (2% each)
    6% half-orc thing (2% each) (too lazy to look up the name)
    5% barbarian might (5%)

    Madfloyd likely forgot about the FB bonus or something, or it doesn't stack with the half-orc thing or something, when he said it's only 20%.

  9. #9
    Community Member mediocresurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanshilar View Post
    Yes, but this means that it introduces a source of error by relying on data from different sources for different parts of the comparison.
    I recognize that my attack speed data may contain slight inaccuracies, but it's the best data I have at the moment. I would be thrilled if someone would post attack speed data for the half orc but I don't think anyone has yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanshilar View Post
    Anyway, minor nit: I think glancing blows actually have a proc rate of 26% for a maxed half-orc barbarian. The numbers are from:

    9% THF, ITHF, GTHF (3% each)
    6% FB 1, FB 2, FB 3 (2% each)
    6% half-orc thing (2% each) (too lazy to look up the name)
    5% barbarian might (5%)

    Madfloyd likely forgot about the FB bonus or something, or it doesn't stack with the half-orc thing or something, when he said it's only 20%.
    Good catch.

    If I wasn't using an eSOS for this calculation I would redo it and give more accurate numbers, but since the only special weapon effect that would be affected is 1 force damage I think I'll take the lazy route and say my results are +/- 1 damage per glancing blow.

    Or maybe I'll correct this tomorrow... the more I think about this, the more it bugs me.

    The nerfing will continue until morale improves!

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    Shouldn't it be be Harry/Sally/Horo Elite or does that not give the right answer?
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    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    I'd be curious to see which style does more damage with similar weapons (ie Mineral II 2-hander vs. 2 Min II 1-handers), since we already know that no weapon compares to the ESoS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediocresurgeon View Post

    Style 2: Epic Sword of Shadows, Epic Marilith Chain, Litany of the Dead
    Situation 1: DR 15, 50% Fortification, Acid Resistance 20 (Suulomades, Arraetrikos & Horoth; normal)
    Average Damage Per Second: 396.250

    Glancing Blows: 0.75 * [0.6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + 0.2 * (1) + (4d6 + 2d6) -15] = 56.625 damage
    (2-14) Non-critical: (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 179.125 damage
    (15-18) Critical (x3): 3 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 440.125 damage
    (19-20) Super-Critical (x6): 6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 816.625 damage
    Average Damage Per Attack: 240.151
    Attacks Per Minute: 99
    Situation 2: DR 20, 0% Fortification, Acid Resistance 30, Fire Resistance 150 (Queen Lailat; epic)
    Average Damage Per Second: 482.506
    Glancing Blows: 0.75 * [0.6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + 0.2 * (1) + (4d6 + 2d6) -20] = 52.875 damage
    (2-14) Non-critical: (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 20 + glancing blow = 170.375 damage
    (15-18) Critical (x3): 3 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 20 + glancing blow = 431.375 damage
    (19-20) Super-Critical (x6): 6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 20 + glancing blow = 807.875 damage
    Average Damage Per Attack: 292.428
    Attacks Per Minute: 99
    Just trying to work thru these numbers. Given 2-14 is 65%, 15-18 is 20% and 19-20 is 10%, total 95%.

    Situation 1 above: 179.125 * .65 + ( [440.125 *.20 + 816.625 *.10 ] * .50 + [ 179.125 * (.2 +.1) ] * .5) = 179.125 * (.65 + .15) + 440.125 *.10 + 816.625 *.05 = 228.14 per swing.

    Situation 2 above: 170.375 * .65 + 431.375 * .20 + 807.875 * .10 = 277.81 per swing.

    What have I missed?

    Also if you are tanking Horoth in TOD. I'm assuming you should factor -2 STR. Switching from Epic Corrosion Boots to Anchoring, but keeping litany bonus.
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    Community Member praetor's Avatar
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    Can anyone help me out and break this down into sources? I think I got most of them figured out but I'm missing 8 damage somewhere... specifically I'm looking at the non-critical damage that is underlined and bolded

    Style 2: Epic Sword of Shadows, Epic Marilith Chain, Litany of the Dead
    Situation 1: DR 15, 50% Fortification, Acid Resistance 20 (Suulomades, Arraetrikos & Horoth; normal)
    Average Damage Per Second: 396.250

    Glancing Blows: 0.75 * [0.6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + 0.2 * (1) + (4d6 + 2d6) -15] = 56.625 damage
    (2-14) Non-critical: (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 179.125 damage
    (15-18) Critical (x3): 3 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 440.125 damage
    (19-20) Super-Critical (x6): 6 * (5d6 + 43 + 22 + 10 + 4 + 8 + 9 + 1 + 1 + 10) + (4d6 + 2d6 + 1) - 15 + glancing blow = 816.625 damage
    Average Damage Per Attack: 240.151
    Attacks Per Minute: 99
    Here's how I broke it down and somehow I still left out 8 damage, also where does the +1 term to the frenzy/death frenzy come from?

    WEAPON
    Weapon Base Dice [5d6]
    Weapon Enhancement [10]

    STATS
    Str Mod [29]

    GEAR
    Claw Set [4]
    Shintao [2]
    FB [2]
    LOTD [1]
    Force Damage [1]

    FEATS/ENHANCEMENTS
    Power Attack [22]
    Orcish Melee Damage [4]
    Barbarian Damage Boost [5]

    BUFFS
    Bard [9]
    Prayer [1]

    So mediocresurgeon comes out to 5d6 + 98 damage without including glancing blows, frenzies, whereas i come out to 5d6 + 90... can anyone spot the error?

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