The change to ToD is fine.

[Trillea]

Fortunately, that's not a problem.
Epic ward is not the same as death ward.
Epic ward, among its varied effects, stops instakills; it does not however grant immunity to negative energy.

Cheers,
Kernal

I was not talking about epic ward. I was talking about death ward cast by epic mobs. You numerically cannot dispel it, even if you roll a 20 on your caster level check.

[Goldenadult79]

I was not talking about epic ward. I was talking about death ward cast by epic mobs. You numerically cannot dispel it, even if you roll a 20 on your caster level check.

When I asked Eladrin to give me the number of mobs, in the most popular area's, that were immune to either negative energy or curses, his response was this:

Out of the 622 epic monsters, there are 47 undead and 15 constructs/slimes/inanimate objects. Right around 10%.

There are 3 epic monsters that are immune to curses. (Queen Lailat, a horned devil, and a pit fiend.)

Edit: There are 8 epic monsters capable of casting mass death ward, 5 of which are in the Sentinels pack. Interesting.

pay close attention to the fact he had to edit to correct himself and only mentions epic dungeons and raids, im pretty sure that epics aren't the only thing that people do.

[Trillea]

When I asked Eladrin to give me the number of mobs, in the most popular area's, that were immune to either negative energy or curses, his response was this:



pay close attention to the fact he had to edit to correct himself and only mentions epic dungeons and raids, im pretty sure that epics aren't the only thing that people do.

True but epics ARE where the ToD change hits hardest. Everything else is too low in HP to really matter.

[Eladrin]

pay close attention to the fact he had to edit to correct himself and only mentions epic dungeons and raids, im pretty sure that epics aren't the only thing that people do.

That wasn't a correction, it was an addition.

[gurgar78]

pay close attention to the fact he had to edit to correct himself and only mentions epic dungeons and raids, im pretty sure that epics aren't the only thing that people do.

With all due respect, he limited it to epic raids and dungeons because when he posted numbers for the entire realm, he was told that those numbers were worthless because they don't show the stats for content that "really matters".

Now that he's trimmed the numbers to include only epic mobs and raids, he's being told that he's intentionally leaving off other areas to make the numbers seem lower than they really are.

In short, he cannot win, no matter what he says.

[Goldenadult79]

With all due respect, he limited it to epic raids and dungeons because when he posted numbers for the entire realm, he was told that those numbers were worthless because they don't show the stats for content that "really matters".

Now that he's trimmed the numbers to include only epic mobs and raids, he's being told that he's intentionally leaving off other areas to make the numbers seem lower than they really are.

In short, he cannot win, no matter what he says.

With all due respect. This quote: (which is what he quoted in his own response)

You keep giving us statistics that list the entire game. At level 19 I could care less about the mobs in Korthos having Death Ward or not. Why don't you tell us how many mobs in popular quests. The quests with the most player traffic at level 20 will be either immune to curses or immune to negative energy. Then tell us how many of the boss mobs in those quests are also immune to curses.

Those words were mine. I told him i didnt care about the kobolds in korthos being added in it to the percentage numbers he listed. Which is a legitimate concern, is it not?
I asked for legitimate data. Data that applied to myself and the entire dark monk community. And I deserved it. He agreed that I did, otherwise he wouldn't have answered my question.

He intentionally did leave off numbers. Theres no accusation here. the game is not just Epic content. He's the dev. We have to prove our case to him. Not the other way around, at he has said, "convince me.."
He holds all the cards. He already won. The changes are on the preview server and most likely will not be changed before going live. Saying he can't win is ridiculous, he wins, because he is changing the game.

[Angelus_dead]

Imagine in a raid, 12 people getting 10% more damage and being able to crit for even more damage is a pretty big number .

Yes, 10% damage on a raid boss is nice. But it's not enough to make Shintao non-inferior to Ninja.

[Mobeius]

Okay one thing that needs to be straightren out, if you want to harp on the Shinatao specials.

Jade Strike is different than Jade Tomb, Jade Tomb does not work on raid bosses... Jade strike is the debuff that allows 25% fort reduc and 10% damage boost Yes that (Jade Strike) can work on the raid and epic bosses if they are classified as tainted. jade Prison AFA I can tell is a green version of Flesh to Stone and does not work on red/purple named mobs.

[Modinator0]

The ones screaming the loudest are the ones that have MC toons with 9 to 12 levels of monk and/or the ones that made Wisdom a dump stat.

I agree the change is not as bad as people want to make it out to be.

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Anyways, it's still a good attack and fits with the monk class as a whole.

Eladrin did offer to make it back to the original single 500 pt strike, but that wasnt apparently good enough for most.

I dunno, one of the biggest mouths in favor of the nerf is the same person who, on the live forums, said his light monk already out-damages dark monks. Yet darks needed this nerf.

[Khurse]

I dunno, one of the biggest mouths in favor of the nerf is the same person who, on the live forums, said his light monk already out-damages dark monks. Yet darks needed this nerf.

It's the same thing, I've asked (and others have as well) for someone to show how the 1000-1500 is overpowered, yet no one has been able to give a decent reason other than "class X can't do it"
It's been asked how if the 1000-1500 is overpowered ,a possible (if unlikely) 1250-1875(ish) isn't overpowered.
yet no one has been able to give a decent reason. Other than"well sometimes stuff will save against it" And sometimes it won't
It's been pointed out that the devs knew, and actually gave the formula, for how often multiple TODs should proc with the U5 changes, and an argument against is still "Multiple Procs were unintended"
It's been pointed out that the 4 and 5 procs were a known bug, and some are still arguing that we're arguing for "up to 2500pts of damage"

In short, the main argument for the change is..non existant.

[Aaxeyu]

In short, the main argument for the change is..non existant.

Lessen the DPS gap between dark monks and light monks and balance monks against 100% fort mobs are 2 very good reasons for this change.

[AyumiAmakusa]

Why can't people look at this in a positive light? Don't they realise that by 'nerfing' ToD, they will now implement GreenSteel Handwraps? There will be no more 'Monks are Overpowered, they can't have handwraps' arguments. So, suck it up and enjoy the new handwraps (because I am almost certain that they will arrive).

Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with the Turbine Team and have no basis on my claims so any 'truths' you may obtain from this post is taken entirely at your own risk. I do not take responsibility for actions such as, but is not limited to, further nerfs, gimped builds, nerd rages or rage quits.

[Khurse]

Why can't people look at this in a positive light? Don't they realise that by 'nerfing' ToD, they will now implement GreenSteel Handwraps? There will be no more 'Monks are Overpowered, they can't have handwraps' arguments. So, suck it up and enjoy the new handwraps (because I am almost certain that they will arrive).

Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with the Turbine Team and have no basis on my claims so any 'truths' you may obtain from this post is taken entirely at your own risk. I do not take responsibility for actions such as, but is not limited to, further nerfs, gimped builds, nerd rages or rage quits.

I'd love to see greensteel handwraps, I however have looked at the vast number of named handwraps the dev team has added to the game since Monks were introduced,as well as the decision about Devout wraps being BTC and the fact that they're only available one place as a very rare drop, and come to a slightly different conclusion about the possibility of greensteel wraps.

[Mobeius]

I dunno, one of the biggest mouths in favor of the nerf is the same person who, on the live forums, said his light monk already out-damages dark monks. Yet darks needed this nerf.

I NEVER said that... I said my light monks DPS is good DPS... and I have said light monks do good DPS and dark monks do Great DPS. Stop putting words in my mouth, you are getting as bad as another of the "biggest mouths" against the ToD Change.

[Angelus_dead]

It's the same thing, I've asked (and others have as well) for someone to show how the 1000-1500 is overpowered, yet no one has been able to give a decent reason other than "class X can't do it"
...
In short, the main argument for the change is..non existant.

Those statements are very nearly the opposite of reality.

[dkyle]

Yes, 10% damage on a raid boss is nice. But it's not enough to make Shintao non-inferior to Ninja.

I disagree. Those bosses are where DPS really matters, and Light Monks will be adding more than even a Bard. And it's more than 10% damage, as most raid bosses have fortification.

Dark Monks need a lot more than 3d6 SA and a gimped ToD to justify their existence.

[Tarrant]

Hey guys, please stop making multiple threads on this topic. It becomes significantly more difficult for us to gather and aggregate feedback when it's spread out. Thanks for your help!