To all the people complaining about ToD

[elraido]

Stop the drama, stop the complaining, stop the whining. Everyone is saying it is a nerf that destroys their builds. If that destroys your build, then you have other issues.

First of all, it was overpowered. All they have done is toned it down to become more in line with a exhaulted smite ability....and it still has advantages over it. In order for a paladin to produce those types of numbers, they need to find an evil mob, expend an exhalted smite, and then CRIT on it. Basically a paladin only produces a crit smite on 1/4 of all his smites. You don't see people complaining about that...if they made it to the point where a paladin did crit on every one, there would be people saying it is game breaking. But Lord help them for wanting to "nerf" ToD so a mob MIGHT save on it for half damage. And why should ToD effect undead? Basically what a monk does is the give the five finger death punch to make someone heart explode. Undead are, well undead. It shouldn't work on them.

So stop the doom....stop the insanity. With every "nerf" that turbine has implemented, the game hasn't imploded on itself. The sun will rise, people will still play monks, people will still play quests and complete them just fine. Breath nerds, breath.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Whines about whines.

Fail.

[Lorz]

Whines about whines.

Fail.

Whining about whiners whining.

Oh no.....es.....I'm whining about whining about whiners.


It is a vicious cycle. But still a step above whining about changes. In fact I suspect Turbine looks at it this way...the more whining on the boards about it...the more the nerf is needed.

[Dandonk]

Whines about whines.

Fail.

Metawhining? Metafail?

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Metawhining? Metafail?

Keep it up and someone will go insane.

[SINIBYTE]

Stop the drama, stop the complaining, stop the whining. Everyone is saying it is a nerf that destroys their builds. If that destroys your build, then you have other issues.

First of all, it was overpowered. All they have done is toned it down to become more in line with a exhaulted smite ability....and it still has advantages over it. In order for a paladin to produce those types of numbers, they need to find an evil mob, expend an exhalted smite, and then CRIT on it. Basically a paladin only produces a crit smite on 1/4 of all his smites. You don't see people complaining about that...if they made it to the point where a paladin did crit on every one, there would be people saying it is game breaking. But Lord help them for wanting to "nerf" ToD so a mob MIGHT save on it for half damage. And why should ToD effect undead? Basically what a monk does is the give the five finger death punch to make someone heart explode. Undead are, well undead. It shouldn't work on them.

So stop the doom....stop the insanity. With every "nerf" that turbine has implemented, the game hasn't imploded on itself. The sun will rise, people will still play monks, people will still play quests and complete them just fine. Breath nerds, breath.

1. It isn't overpowered.
2. We aren't Paladins.

[Dandonk]

Keep it up and someone will go insane.

Too late, far too late

Hmmm, meta-insane? How does that work?

[elraido]

1. It isn't overpowered.
2. We aren't Paladins.

Explain how it isn't overpowered. I just compaired it to a SIMILAR ability in the game...name me another one where a melee can go "instant 500 damage" when they want.

[Gumbolo]

Stop the drama, stop the complaining, stop the whining. Everyone is saying it is a nerf that destroys their builds. If that destroys your build, then you have other issues.

First of all, it was overpowered. All they have done is toned it down to become more in line with a exhaulted smite ability....and it still has advantages over it. In order for a paladin to produce those types of numbers, they need to find an evil mob, expend an exhalted smite, and then CRIT on it. Basically a paladin only produces a crit smite on 1/4 of all his smites. You don't see people complaining about that...if they made it to the point where a paladin did crit on every one, there would be people saying it is game breaking. But Lord help them for wanting to "nerf" ToD so a mob MIGHT save on it for half damage.

Well, remove their aura and require em to wear robe/light armor + wooden buckler (no other shield or armor proficiencies) for being capable to cast spells and use your paladin abilities, also your smite would work on all mobs. You would retain higher survivability than monks (LoH, ac, dr etc.), but you would retain a little bit lower dmg than dark monks. Would you see that as fair one?
Sure ToD was broken when it was hitting 4-5 times (it's fixed now), but even by then we wasn't grabbing aggro away and reducing it to 2x + 10% from windstance could've made us do reasonable dmg as balancement for our survivability.

And why should ToD effect undead? Basically what a monk does is the give the five finger death punch to make someone heart explode. Undead are, well undead. It shouldn't work on them.

You should read description instead stating it as 'the five finger death punch to make someone heart explode'. Because we're devouring/destroying/unbalancing their ki?

[Meretrix]

I agree with the OP, it was way overpowered. It's also ruining pvp, theres always some lvl 9 monk who jumps down and one shots an epic geared 20, kinda silly.

[elraido]

Well, remove their aura and require em to wear robe/light armor + wooden buckler (no other shield or armor proficiencies) for being capable to cast spells and use your paladin abilities, also your smite would work on all mobs. You would retain higher survivability than monks (LoH, ac, dr etc.), but you would retain a little bit lower dmg than dark monks. Would you see that as fair one?
Sure ToD was broken when it was hitting 4-5 times (it's fixed now), but even by then we wasn't grabbing aggro away and reducing it to 2x + 10% from windstance could've made us do reasonable dmg as balancement for our survivability.

You should read description instead stating it as 'the five finger death punch to make someone heart explode'. Because we're devouring/destroying/unbalancing their ki?

Have you used smite evil on all mobs? It doesn't work on all mobs. It doesn't even EFFECT anything neutral or good. You roll normal damage. Also vs undead, since they can't be crit, it is a normal smite damage every time....~2x's normal damage

And ToD....read that out loud. TOUCH OF DEATH. How can you use it on something that is all ready DEAD!!!!!

[SINIBYTE]

I agree with the OP, it was way overpowered. It's also ruining pvp, theres always some lvl 9 monk who jumps down and one shots an epic geared 20, kinda silly.

It all makes sense now! Someone got their ass handed to them in the tavern by a lowbie. lol.

(Actually, if you want to say its OP at level 9, fine, but its not OP at 20 in an endgame environment, many have suggested scaling solutions for that very argument (TOD = (monk level * 25)).

[dkyle]

Explain how it isn't overpowered. I just compaired it to a SIMILAR ability in the game...name me another one where a melee can go "instant 500 damage" when they want.

Except that it's a completely different ability on a completely different class. ToD is just a source of DPS. At endgame, the fact that it's 500 damage on demand is irrelevant. It's 500 (or 1000 or 1500) once every 15 seconds, or at most 64 DPS for a GMWind Monk. 60 DPS for a Sun-stance. I don't think 64 DPS is an unreasonable amount for Dark Monks to exceed Light Monks by, especially with the amazing new abilities Shintao is getting, and I don't think it brings them above Fighters, Barbs, or Rogues. Rogues get far more DPS from sneak attack, should they get nerfed just because they get a class feature no-one else gets (the tiny SA Dark Monks get aside)?

The ToD nerf simply serves to reduce Dark Monks already not-great DPS. For a class/path that gets little else but DPS, that serves to make them pointless.

[Gumbolo]

Have you used smite evil on all mobs? It doesn't work on all mobs. It doesn't even EFFECT anything neutral or good. You roll normal damage. Also vs undead, since they can't be crit, it is a normal smite damage every time....~2x's normal damage

And ToD....read that out loud. TOUCH OF DEATH. How can you use it on something that is all ready DEAD!!!!!

That was just list of modifications, which would include buffing smite to work on all mobs instead of just evil ones. Just wondering if ya did even read more than 2-3 words from every sentence...

That's a name, not description...

"You strike your opponent down with twisted ki, dealing 500 additional damage." (before U7)

Did you see word DEATH (mind to share the reason why we need to use caps on that word? o.o) there? I don't think so.

I agree with the OP, it was way overpowered. It's also ruining pvp, theres always some lvl 9 monk who jumps down and one shots an epic geared 20, kinda silly.

Wait till ya meet sorcerer/wizard using max + emp spells such as meteor swarm, polar ray and so on. They're one shotting ya fairly easily, especially if ya consider high crit rate (~18%).

[Raiderone]

Face it. TOD should never of came out with no Save. Half Damage is typical of failed saves. At least they didn't make it like a PK...

Why should Dark Monks have the ability to dump Wisdom and still have an effective TOD?

TOD should also be determined by your wisdom, just like Tainted Smites.
I think even your half damage should be effected by Wisdom.

Higher Wisdom, higher your half damage...not just a straight 500

[elraido]

Except that it's a completely different ability on a completely different class. ToD is just a source of DPS. At endgame, the fact that it's 500 damage on demand is irrelevant. It's 500 (or 1000 or 1500) once every 15 seconds, or at most 64 DPS for a GMWind Monk. 60 DPS for a Sun-stance. I don't think 64 DPS is an unreasonable amount for Dark Monks to exceed Light Monks by, especially with the amazing new abilities Shintao is getting, and I don't think it brings them above Fighters, Barbs, or Rogues. Rogues get far more DPS from sneak attack, should they get nerfed just because they get a class feature no-one else gets (the tiny SA Dark Monks get aside)?

The ToD nerf simply serves to reduce Dark Monks already not-great DPS. For a class/path that gets little else but DPS, that serves to make them pointless.

The funny thing is, people actually are doing more damage now than before. They are hitting for 650 points quit a bit with it. While it isn't the bugged 4-5 hits, they still double strike with it.

Rogues have sneak attack, but they are limited once they get agro vs undead vs constructs etc. As of right now ToD has no limits...every 15 seconds you said, bam 500 points. A paladin has to even wait 90 seconds before they regen a smite evil after they use them up...~7-10 on average for a DoS.

Also, if Dark Monks aren't that far ahead of light monks...why are there almost literally no light monks around?

[SINIBYTE]

Maybe we need to nerf Smite? I mean if it's a "similar ability" to a monks TOD it only makes sense, right? Because monks TOD is so clearly overpowered, then smite must be too.

[elujin]

the only thing sad about the nerf is it makes fire stance less usefull again .

but it was op and its kinda silly it effected undeath thats light monk stuff

[SINIBYTE]

the only thing sad about the nerf is it makes fire stance less usefull again .

but it was op and its kinda silly it effected undeath thats light monk stuff

Actually to attain a respectable WIS score to land a reliable TOD, GM Suns is an impossible stance to achieve.

[~jradnut]

Therefore should affect undead as well.

Is not Holy damage.

Is not Good damage.

Is not Earth, Wind, or Fire damage...(disco damage?)

Is Untyped and when going thru orchard at level for minos legens, is pretty much your only hope against flesh golems.

At mid levels ToD also gives you a warm fuzzy feeling not felt at higher levels where not all mobs can be 1-shotted.

Every class needs a stand out ability that manifests itself somewhere along the way that never entirely disappears.

Nerf ToD and might as well be a lite monk, eh? ... Regardless, nerfbat not entirely unexpected.