New vision of Arcane Archer

[Maldavenous]

You gave AA some of the most powerful spells in the game like Haste, Stoneskin, Fireshield ect. Also you give some useless like Shield, Resist Energy (lvl1 ranger spell).[/COLOR]

I figure the powerful spells are balanced to the fact that you only get 2 or 3 casts of most of them or they are spells that could be cast off scrolls.

The useless spells free up slots if you're a ranger or are useful for the non-ranger AAs.

I agree that some of them are possibly too powerful but I figured I'd highlight the best or most fitting spells and allow them to cull it down.

[Rakian_Knight]

In my opinion Arcane Archer is both good and bad as it is now. However, the suggestion that you put forth isn't the right way of doing this. Arcane Archer already has five tiers through its conjure arrows. What I believe it needs is more of the pnp abilities that they once had.

Arcane Archer I
Cost: 4 ap
Conjure +1 arrows and gives you +20 max sp.
(This opens the first line of imbue arrow enhancements)

Imbue Arrow: Acid
Cost: 1 ap
Cost 20 sp to use but causes arrows to be acid arrows and deal 1d6 acid damage. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Melf's Acid Arrow.

Imbue Arrow: Cold
Cost: 1 ap
Cost 20 sp to use but causes arrows to be frost arrows and deal 1d6 cold damage. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Snowball Storm spell.

Imbue Arrow: Fire
Cost: 1 ap
Cost 20 sp to use but causes arrows to be flaming arrows and deal 1d6 fire damage. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Flaming Sphere spell.

Imbue Arrow: Electricity
Cost: 1 ap
Cost 20 sp to use but causes arrows to be Shock arrows and deal 1d6 electricity damage. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Electric Loop spell.

Imbue Arrow: Force
Cost: 1 ap
Cost 20 sp to use but causes arrows to be force arrows and deal 1d4 force damage in addition to acting like a ghost touch weapon. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the magic missle spell.

Arcane Archer II
Cost: 1 ap
Conjure +2 arrows and gains the seeker arrow ability.

Seeker Arrow
Cost: 0 ap
You can use this special shot up to five times per rest to give yourself a magical edge on those needed shots. You can give youself a +20 enhancement bonus to hit and ignore any concealment bonuses that the target may have from magical means.

Arcane Archer III
Cost: 1 ap
Conjure +3 arrows and another +10 sp (for a total of +30 max sp).

(This unlocks the tier two imbue abilities)

Imbue Arrow: Acid Burst
Cost: 2 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Acid
Cost 30 sp to use but causes arrows to be acid burst arrows dealing an additional 1d6 acid damage and 2d10 additional acid damage on a crit. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Acid ball spell.

Imbue Arrow: Frost Burst
Cost: 2 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Frost
Cost 30 sp to use but causes arrows to be Frost burst arrows dealing an additional 1d6 cold damage and 2d10 additional cold damage on a crit. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Frost Lance spell.

Imbue Arrow: Flaming Burst
Cost: 2 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Fire
Cost 30 sp to use but causes arrows to be Flaming burst arrows dealing an additional 1d6 fire damage and 2d10 additional fire damage on a crit. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the fireball spell.

Imbue Arrow: Shocking Burst
Cost: 2 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Shock
Cost 30 sp to use but causes arrows to be Shocking burst arrows dealing an additional 1d6 electric damage and 2d10 additional electric damage on a crit. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Lighting Bolt spell.

Imbue Arrow: Force Burst
Cost: 2 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Force
Cost 30 sp to use but causes arrows to be Force burst arrows dealing an additional 1d4 force damage and 2d6 additional force damage on a crit in addition to acting like a ghost touch weapon. This ability causes a lengthy cooldown of the Force Missle Spell spell.

Arcane Archer IV
Cost: 2 ap
Conjure +4 arrows and gives an ability called Hail of Arrows.

Hail of Arrows
Cost: 0 ap
Time: 30 seconds
This ability acts like manyshot except that it cost a use of your seeker arrow and cannot be used while many shot is in use. (No cooldown)

(This also opens up the third tier of imbues)

Imbue Arrow: Acid Blast
Cost: 3 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Acid Burst
Cost 40 sp to use but causes your arrows to act like Acid Burst arrow but have an additional effect on vorpal hits. On a vorpal hit your arrow explodes into a powerful acidic attack that causes the target to take 2d4 damage every two seconds for 30 seconds in addition to acting like a distruction weapon decreasing his/her armor class by four. This ability causes a costly cooldown of the Acid Fog spell.

Imbue Arrow: Frost Blast
Cost: 3 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Frost Burst
Cost 40 sp to use but causes your arrows to act like frost burst arrows but have an additional effect on vorpal hits. On a vorpal hit you arrow causes your target to freeze in place (no auto crits) for 30 seconds unless they can make a strength check (DC 10 + dex mod.) and is slowed for an additonal minute (total 1 min. 30 sec. but subtracting the freeze time). This ability causes a costly cooldown of the Polar Ray spell.

Imbue Arrow: Flaming Blast
Cost: 3 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Flaming Burst
Cost 40 sp to use but causes you arrows to act like flame burst arrows but have an additional effect on vorpal hits. On a vorpal hit you arrow causes your target to burn savagely dealing 20d6 fire damage. This ability causes a costly cooldown of the Wall of Fire spell.

Imbue Arrow: Shocking Blast
Cost: 3 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Shocking Burst
Cost 40 sp to use but causes your arrows to act like shocking burst arrows but have an additional effect on vorpal hits. On a vorpal hit you arrow causes your target to be stunned (no auto crits) for 30 seconds in addition to dealing 10d6 electrical damage.

Imbue Arrow: Terror Arrow
Cost: 3 ap
Prerequites: Imbue Arrow: Force Burst
Cost 40 sp to use but causes your arrows to have roaring effect (shaken foes and on crits deals 2d6 sonic) and have an additional effect on vorpal hits. On a vorpal strike this cast Phantasmal Killer on the target (DC 15+dex. mod.)*.

*On a save you are still looking at bow damage +2d6 sonic +4d6 force if I remember correctly. The force line is a safe line because it can't be resisted so it is going to have a weaker effect.

Arcane Archer V
Cost: 1 ap
Conjure +5 arrows and gain a Arrow of Death ability.

Arrow of Death
This counts as a use of your seeker arrow but this has the ability to kill a single target in a single shot. This ability can't be used with Hail of Arrows or Manyshot. This shot, if it hits, causes instant death to its target unless it makes a fort. save (DC 15+dex. mod).

(This also opens up the ability to get Slayer Arrows)

Imbue Arrow: Slayer
Cost: 1 ap
Requires one of the following: Imbure Arrow: Acid Blast, Imbure Arrow: Frost Blast, Imbure Arrow: Flaming Blast, Imbure Arrow: Shocking Blast, or Imbure Arrow: Terror Arrow.

Cost 50 sp and causes any arrow to deal 500 flat damage on a vorpal hit. This ability causes finger of death, slay living, and destruction to all have a long cooldown.

Comments, thoughts?

[SiliconShadow]

Again I want the feats I want improved and greater many shots, I want swarm of arrows I want ranged to have access to what can make it worthwhile and I want it balanced

[Requiro]

(...) What I believe it needs is more of the pnp abilities that they once had (...)

Almost all of you ideas are not PnP abilities

Besides, your idea is not balancing at all.

• Made this PrE very poor DPS improvments on level 6-11 and replace unlimited True Strike by 5/rest (for now this is mostly useless ability, after your change will be use only for Additional Manyshoot)
• Only a little better on level 12-14
• On level 15 you give overpowered ability Hail of Arrows (50% more duration then Manyshoot, No cooldown) and overpowered stunning and freezing ability
• You remove great solo Imbues – fearsome ability from Terror Imbues
• And on level 18 you gave useless on that level ability: insta kill with fort save
• And all this only for remove everything (but one Imbues) to get Slaying arrow

Like some of your ideas are nice (like add freezing or stunted effect – but for 2-3 sec), all the rest are just unbalance. For now AA is situational good DPS (manyshoot, long range, boss fighting). With your improvements, you can Manyshoot in big fight for 2 minutes constantly. Freezing 20% at one shoot (4 x arrow). And you want to tell me that this is balanced? No way

In my opinion, if someone want to add “hail of arrows” or “arrow of death” must consider DDO reality.

• Arrow of death is cool in PnP but not in DDO at high level. If you want to add it do in on level 12 – when it works well. But with cooldown (let’s say 30 sec)
• Hail of arrows are impossible to implement in DDO. But your proposal in too much overpowered. In my opinion the better way to implement this will be ability on level 9, with cooldown let’s say 60 sec. With this ability you can shoot as many arrow as your level to a single target (yes – max 20 arrows at once at level 20). That will be nice, one shoot nuke ability once per 60 sec. Overpowered? I don’t think so.

[Rakian_Knight]

Almost all of you ideas are not PnP abilities

Besides, your idea is not balancing at all.

• Made this PrE very poor DPS improvments on level 6-11 and replace unlimited True Strike by 5/rest (for now this is mostly useless ability, after your change will be use only for Additional Manyshoot)
• Only a little better on level 12-14
• On level 15 you give overpowered ability Hail of Arrows (50% more duration then Manyshoot, No cooldown) and overpowered stunning and freezing ability
• You remove great solo Imbues – fearsome ability from Terror Imbues
• And on level 18 you gave useless on that level ability: insta kill with fort save
• And all this only for remove everything (but one Imbues) to get Slaying arrow

Like some of your ideas are nice (like add freezing or stunted effect – but for 2-3 sec), all the rest are just unbalance. For now AA is situational good DPS (manyshoot, long range, boss fighting). With your improvements, you can Manyshoot in big fight for 2 minutes constantly. Freezing 20% at one shoot (4 x arrow). And you want to tell me that this is balanced? No way

In my opinion, if someone want to add “hail of arrows” or “arrow of death” must consider DDO reality.

• Arrow of death is cool in PnP but not in DDO at high level. If you want to add it do in on level 12 – when it works well. But with cooldown (let’s say 30 sec)
• Hail of arrows are impossible to implement in DDO. But your proposal in too much overpowered. In my opinion the better way to implement this will be ability on level 9, with cooldown let’s say 60 sec. With this ability you can shoot as many arrow as your level to a single target (yes – max 20 arrows at once at level 20). That will be nice, one shoot nuke ability once per 60 sec. Overpowered? I don’t think so.

The Imbue abilities aren't but in my opinion are one of the few things about the arcane archer that was closer to the original while still making it work. Most arcane archers aren't wizards and the need to make a fireball the center of where you shoot an arrow doesn't really have a use in the game.

I look at this being a racial PrE instead of the Ranger PrE so levels to me are a little different. The PrE doesn't start til level 9 on most characters and the gaps between levels are only 2-3 so a small gap in power doesn't make that much difference. However, I haven't leveled a character like this all the way so I'm writing this as a suggestion from observations and researching. Numbers I don't know yet, I just went with a theme and stuck with it, acid deals DoT and destroys everything it touches, Cold slows and freezes, Fires burns for a massive damage, Electric Stuns but still damages, and force is a safe stable one but with less power.

Your ideas for Hail of arrows and Arrow of Death are good, a hell of a lot better then mine. (+1 for that)

[Requiro]

I change a little my suggestion (new ideas and new layout)

What I add:

On level 9:
In "Imbues Elemental Arrow" Change CL from 5 to 3

On level 12:
In "Imbues Explode Arrow" change special effect on vorpals: additional damage or CL:5 spell effect. Now, in my design we can choice what we want on vorpals: more damage or spell effect.

On level 15:
Replace SL-a for ability:
Hail of arrows – Shoot 1 + 1 per 2 level arrows to one target. Cooldown: 45 sec. Can’t be used in Manyshoot stance.

On level 18:
In "Imbues Slaying Arrow" change damage from 20d12 + 300 to 30d12 + 200

Enjoy

[donfilibuster]

I agree it'd be nice to have variety within any given PrE, not just the PrE being the variety for a given class.
(like the wizards PrEs that let you specialize a bit or at least choose some enhancements and not others)

I want to note here that the AA as it is now can be very very powerful in the hands of a capable player.
Like sometime happens with new bow toons and rangers it is not too hard to gimp or not use it to full advantage.

A good AA takes some player skill, have a mobility that reminds me of quake players, doing kiting right and not giving trouble to the party.
An AA takes some gear but can use what is there from the old packs, e.g. sands and GS may suffice.
On the good side, once you get all the gear you need you can be on your way to completionist doing all elven AA lives.

Players using the keyboard may have trouble keeping up with the jumping and shooting required for best results.
The mouse for strafing is a must-have. Not sure if a game pad helps but the AAs i know use the mouse mostly.

A capped AA TR might carry a dozen different GS bows, can solo dq and rf, can solo kite harry, can solo a number of epics like wiz king, etc.
This might involve ledges and the trap exploits but still getting them results.

There's still distrust of AAs from raid leaders, but it is nowhere as bad nowadays as it was last year.
This is fine as it's not an easy build, you may see more bad AA than good ones.

[NexEverto]

I personally believe that the Arcane Archer PrE doesn't need 'fixing' or 'improving'. (Exception being the Imbue Explosive Arrows, I can see the logic behind having them flaming burst, but, its honestly fairly misleading.) The real issues many have with Arcane Archers are the lack of DPS, HP, and skill a majority of players seem to have. Unfortunately, besides teaching CON is not a dump stat, and having all the kills because no one else can catch your kited mobs, the last two cannot be fixed.

The DPS issue, however, can be. Its well known that Arcane Archers provide some of the best burst DPS, however, for the remainder of their time while their Manyshot is on cool down, if they choose to stick with a bow, they are subpar (Most, there are always exceptions that prove the rule.) This lack of non-burst is mostly because of the slower ranged alacrity. Even a fully geared Arcane Archer, with the Ranger Capstone, Haste and ToD Set will still shoot at roughly 1/3 the speed as a THF Build swings their axe. Everyone's first suggestion is always to change Arcane Archers, but that's such an isolated fix it'll really accomplish nothing. What happens when Deepwood Sniper is finally introduced and fixed? (Deepwood Sniper is one PrE that actually DOES need fixing, though Turbine said it was coming soon.) If Arcane Archers have been buffed up to compensate for the lack of DPS ranged characters provide, then you can basically take this thread and rename it to 'New vision of Deepwood Sniper (Again)'.

Now, don't for a second think I'm saying Ranged combat should be on par or better than Melee combat, that'll present a new problem of having complete Ranged Groups (Which will be awesome right up until you find a door that needs to be broken down, at which point everyone will recall, drop group and find another quest. xD) and then Melee's will have a reason to complain. However, that doesn't change the fact it needs a big bump. For anyone who says it should be on par, I have two simple solutions. Roll up a Melee, or use your player Skill/Knowledge, as well as your Build and Gear to make up the difference.

In short, changing the Arcane Archer PrE isn't a solution to fix ranged combat, fixing ranged alacrity in general is.

[Requiro]

(...)I want to note here that the AA as it is now can be very very powerful in the hands of a capable player.

I know that. Like you can see in my proposal there is not much more power, but more diversity. Ability to choice our elemental (we must be more smart to know enemy vulnerability) and more progressive ability.(...)

(...) reminds me of quake players, doing kiting right and not giving trouble to the party.(...) The mouse for strafing is a must-have. (...)

Completely agree Without strafing AA is very annoying to other players...

I personally believe that the Arcane Archer PrE doesn't need 'fixing' Agree or 'improving' Disagree. AA is Bad design PrE, that's why I don't add more "power" but more diversity, progressive and more Arcane to that PrE. . (...)

(…)(Deepwood Sniper is one PrE that actually DOES need fixing, though Turbine said it was coming soon. But only Deepwood Sniper II not full PrE... and that is not good move ) If Arcane Archers have been buffed up to compensate for the lack of DPS ranged characters provide, then you can basically take this thread and rename it to 'New vision of Deepwood Sniper (Again)'.

Hey - I have also proposal for Deepwood Sniper Here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=300776

Now, don't for a second think I'm saying Ranged combat should be on par or better than Melee combat, Definitely not(...)

(…)(Which will be awesome right up until you find a door that needs to be broken down, at which point everyone will recall, drop group and find another quest. xD) (…)

Lol

In short, changing the Arcane Archer PrE isn't a solution to fix ranged combat, fixing ranged alacrity in general is.

That is not my intention. I just feel like this PrE can be much more fun to play, that just simple: cast Acid Arrow until Slaying Arrow. Then Use only Slaying Arrow. I miss "Arcane" part of that PrE so much...

Comments in red. Thanks for respond

[NexEverto]

AA is Bad design PrE, that's why I don't add more "power" but more diversity, progressive and more Arcane to that PrE.

(...)

That is not my intention. I just feel like this PrE can be much more fun to play, that just simple: cast Acid Arrow until Slaying Arrow. Then Use only Slaying Arrow. I miss "Arcane" part of that PrE so much...

Okay, I could be wrong but I suspect a lot of people misunderstood the intention of this post as giving the Arcane Archer PrE more power. But, I could be so used to seeing the typical "Make Arcane Archers better to even Ranged combat!" posts I missed the underlying ideas you had. Though, I still don't find myself agreeing with you. I could be wrong, but besides Wizards, and soon to be Sorcerers, there are no PrE's that allow a huge range of diversity (Please feel free to correct me, I'm not stating that with 100% certainty). All of the others (Besides the two classes mentioned above) either give you the option for two or three PrEs, and you either follow the whole line, or part of it. Arcane Archer, honestly, is one of the luckier PrE's in the fact it doesn't have one or two tiers and that's it. Look at Clerics, you get Radiant Servant or... Bards, thankfully you get the pick between Warchanters, Spell Singers, or Virtuosos, however, same issue, two tiers and that's it. And hey, back to Deepwood Snipers, anyone who ever thought of making one must sit wanting to kill all Arcane Archers for having a complete PrE.

As for 'Acid Arrow then Slaying Arrow' that truthfully reflects player preference. I still use Force Burst Arrows and Terror Arrows at level 20, really, Imbues are all circumstantial if you don't fall into the habit of playing with Slayers and only Slayers. Honestly, I think the reason you see Wizard/Monk/Fighter splash and any other splash Arcane Archers is so help add to the diversity side, as far as I see it, PrE's aren't meant to define your character or limit them, how you plan, gear, and build your character is. PrE's are simply meant to enhance them, kind of like the color of candles you put on top of a cake. That may have been a far stretched parallel... But who doesn't like cake!

Now, it's my turn to ask a question rather than just giving my opinion, I never played Pen and Paper, so I have no idea what Arcane Archers were like in there. Did Arcane Archers have more of an 'Arcane' aspect to them?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I personally believe that the Arcane Archer PrE doesn't need 'fixing' or 'improving'. (Exception being the Imbue Explosive Arrows, I can see the logic behind having them flaming burst, but, its honestly fairly misleading.) The real issues many have with Arcane Archers are the lack of DPS, HP, and skill a majority of players seem to have. Unfortunately, besides teaching CON is not a dump stat, and having all the kills because no one else can catch your kited mobs, the last two cannot be fixed.

The DPS issue, however, can be. Its well known that Arcane Archers provide some of the best burst DPS, however, for the remainder of their time while their Manyshot is on cool down, if they choose to stick with a bow, they are subpar (Most, there are always exceptions that prove the rule.) This lack of non-burst is mostly because of the slower ranged alacrity. Even a fully geared Arcane Archer, with the Ranger Capstone, Haste and ToD Set will still shoot at roughly 1/3 the speed as a THF Build swings their axe. Everyone's first suggestion is always to change Arcane Archers, but that's such an isolated fix it'll really accomplish nothing. What happens when Deepwood Sniper is finally introduced and fixed? (Deepwood Sniper is one PrE that actually DOES need fixing, though Turbine said it was coming soon.) If Arcane Archers have been buffed up to compensate for the lack of DPS ranged characters provide, then you can basically take this thread and rename it to 'New vision of Deepwood Sniper (Again)'.

Now, don't for a second think I'm saying Ranged combat should be on par or better than Melee combat, that'll present a new problem of having complete Ranged Groups (Which will be awesome right up until you find a door that needs to be broken down, at which point everyone will recall, drop group and find another quest. xD) and then Melee's will have a reason to complain. However, that doesn't change the fact it needs a big bump. For anyone who says it should be on par, I have two simple solutions. Roll up a Melee, or use your player Skill/Knowledge, as well as your Build and Gear to make up the difference.

In short, changing the Arcane Archer PrE isn't a solution to fix ranged combat, fixing ranged alacrity in general is.

AAs don't need a boost: ranged combat for everyone does.

Interesting example yo ugave about an all ranged group and a door to break down.

Mr.Cow set out to do one of his TRs as ranged only. I joined one of his ranged only LFMs, and we came to a door that needed to be knocked down. He shot it with an arrow and of course nothing happened.....
He sat there for a minute, then typed: "hmmm" in party chat.

I then pulled out a Sunflask from the last Festival, and threw it at the door.
The door exloded...and MrCow said: "nice".

[Requiro]

(...)

Now, it's my turn to ask a question rather than just giving my opinion, I never played Pen and Paper, so I have no idea what Arcane Archers were like in there. Did Arcane Archers have more of an 'Arcane' aspect to them?

I don't play PnP too, but read the manuals and play by Internet for a while

So AA in DnD should have

• Ability to Imbue Arrows with AOE spell. After cast a spell on the arrow, he must shoot that arrow. On impact spell unlease power on the target and space around.
• Apecial abilities (1 per day):
  
  • Seeker arrow - always hit the target
  • Phase arrow - arrows go thru any non-magical obstacle (like wall) and defenses (like AC)
  • Hail of arrow - shoot arrows to everyone in the range
  • Arrow of death - kill instantly if target save faild (DC=20 Fortitude)
• And any non-magical arrow that AA shoot, was Imbue with Magic and add +1 - +5 Enhancement bonus depends of level.

In DDO we get
- Equivalent of Magical Enhancments (+1 - +5 returning arrows)
- Limited equivalent of Imbues arrow - without AOE effect.
- Very week equivalent of Seeker arrow - True Strike
- Very week equivalent of Phase arrow - On Force Imbues we get Ghost Touch ability.

That’s why I post that changes. I don’t feel Arcane when playing Arcane Archer right now. And, like you said, only Arcanes get diversity in their PrE, but AA don't.