Top 25 Best Sorcerer Spells

[sirgog]

1) Haste
2) Reconstruct (anyone without this on a Sorc, WF or fleshy, does not deserve a raid slot, scrolls don't cut it beyond normal VoD)
3) Wall of Fire (the absolute pinnacle of damage-per-mana efficiency on 80% of foes in the game)

although at present, I'd push Waves of Exhaustion up to #2 on this list.

[WarDestroyer]

You forgot to put WoB/FoD at top
You forgot FW at toplist
You forgot Reconstruct at toplist (and list overall)
You forgot Haste at toplist (and list overall)
You forgot Displacement at toplist (and list overall)
You forgot Stoneskin at toplist (and list overall)
You forgot Waves at toplist (and list overall)
You forgot CK at list
You forgot PK at list
Invisibility?
Jump?
Frost Lance?
Ghoul Touch?
Glitterdust?
Halt Undead?

[JustWinBaby]

--Snip--

Sorry, I'll be nice :\

[halls]

1. haste - useful when you get it, useful when you get it for 4:00

[Spisey]

1. haste - useful when you get it, useful when you get it for 4:24

Fixed!

[tinyelvis]

1) Haste
2) Reconstruct (anyone without this on a Sorc, WF or fleshy, does not deserve a raid slot, scrolls don't cut it beyond normal VoD)
3) Wall of Fire (the absolute pinnacle of damage-per-mana efficiency on 80% of foes in the game)

although at present, I'd push Waves of Exhaustion up to #2 on this list.

Leaving out reconstruct was a big accident as i pointed out earlier. Haste can hardly rate since its at best the third or fourth pick for a sorc at 3rd level spell. Sure its a fine spell, but its not going to contribute to your offensive capability as much as other spells. Wall of Fire is necessary for epic play (in fact most of the time its the only offensive option in epic play). However, outside of that it is only use situationally by good casters (i.e. when mana is low or you want to kill something while you park it in a safe location or you want to drop a dozen on an opponent before they activate).

I agree with most of your comments (by your I mean the community). It is clear that I play a caster much different from the vast majority of you folks. I find the performance compared to potential performance of most casters very low. I opt to kill things with a well buffed fire ball that at 8th level does 8*(3d3+3) base damage as opposed to 2d6+8 base damage every few seconds (faster killing at a cheaper cost). That's a base expected average of 40 compared to 15. Good AOE increase by a die of damage as you level as opposed to wall of fire's single point. If the first ball does not kill, then a second follow up surely does before the wall of fire can even tick off its second damage. This means I kill quickly before enemy casters have the option to cast. Further, I can redirect follow up attacks toward the danger as opposed to convincing mobs to play ball and kite thru my wall of fire.

Sure wall of fire is persistent and no other spell can achieve the mana efficiency. However, if that were the goal of a caster then acid fog would be the second best spell since its cumulative damage output also beats out much higher DPS spells. I would not be surprised if a cloud kill could not do the same. However, mana conservation is good for a wizard, but with my style of play DPS is the key (outside of the lame play of epic content of course).

Now, I understand that a caster with great self heal who loves to sit in wall of fire with 3 mana regen devices might rate wall of fire higher. This is a fine way to play, however not mine. I hardly ever use the spell until epic play. Since I can easily do without wall of fire over any of the offensive spells in the list above it, I don't see how I could hardly place it higher.

[richieelias27]

Leaving out reconstruct was a big accident as i pointed out earlier. Haste can hardly rate since its at best the third or fourth pick for a sorc at 3rd level spell. Sure its a fine spell, but its not going to contribute to your offensive capability as much as other spells. Wall of Fire is necessary for epic play (in fact most of the time its the only offensive option in epic play). However, outside of that it is only use situationally by good casters (i.e. when mana is low or you want to kill something while you park it in a safe location or you want to drop a dozen on an opponent before they activate).

I agree with most of your comments (by your I mean the community). It is clear that I play a caster much different from the vast majority of you folks. I find the performance compared to potential performance of most casters very low. I opt to kill things with a well buffed fire ball that at 8th level does 8*(3d3+3) base damage as opposed to 2d6+8 base damage every few seconds (faster killing at a cheaper cost). That's a base expected average of 40 compared to 15. Good AOE increase by a die of damage as you level as opposed to wall of fire's single point. If the first ball does not kill, then a second follow up surely does before the wall of fire can even tick off its second damage. This means I kill quickly before enemy casters have the option to cast. Further, I can redirect follow up attacks toward the danger as opposed to convincing mobs to play ball and kite thru my wall of fire.

Sure wall of fire is persistent and no other spell can achieve the mana efficiency. However, if that were the goal of a caster then acid fog would be the second best spell since its cumulative damage output also beats out much higher DPS spells. I would not be surprised if a cloud kill could not do the same. However, mana conservation is good for a wizard, but with my style of play DPS is the key (outside of the lame play of epic content of course).

Now, I understand that a caster with great self heal who loves to sit in wall of fire with 3 mana regen devices might rate wall of fire higher. This is a fine way to play, however not mine. I hardly ever use the spell until epic play. Since I can easily do without wall of fire over any of the offensive spells in the list above it, I don't see how I could hardly place it higher.

Around the level you get wall of fire, undead is what you will be facing much of the time. Wall of fire does double damage to undead. Wall of fire is absolutely an amazing spell to have in your spell book the instant you can get it. I think thats pretty clear.

Haste: Whatever the total melee DPS increase of haste vs no haste is for your party over the entire duration of the spell can be said to be the DPS of one haste spell. There is no way you are going to say that one fireball = more than that.

[tinyelvis]

Around the level you get wall of fire, undead is what you will be facing much of the time. Wall of fire does double damage to undead. Wall of fire is absolutely an amazing spell to have in your spell book the instant you can get it. I think thats pretty clear.

Haste: Whatever the total melee DPS increase of haste vs no haste is for your party over the entire duration of the spell can be said to be the DPS of one haste spell. There is no way you are going to say that one fireball = more than that.

I think wall of fire might be amazing for you, but in general that is not the case. For the sake of argument lets assume you only want to face undead at level 8. So, your claim is that wall of fire is the spell of choice here. Hmm, sure you can successfully use it. However, how does

A well buffed wall of fire at a cost of 50 points
Average Damage per click = 15*(1.95)*(2 for maximize)*(2 vs. undead) = 117


Compared to a fire ball here at a cost of 45 points
Average Damage = 40*(1.95)*(2) = 156

In the later case, the mobs die instantly on one cast, while in the wall of fire case at least 4 seconds are needed to achieve success (maybe longer). How many lightning bolts from angry arcanes will be directed at you or the party? Most folks, and this fellow above probably included don't even know or bother to buff their walls of fire to the extent that I did in the example. This just adds to discrepancy in damage. Further, at 8th/9th level the wall of fire performs best vs. spells like fireball or acid blast. Each level after great AOE spells gain 1 full die of damage, while wall of fire only gets 1 single point of damage.

The thought that wall of fire is the best approach here actually represents the poor general knowledge of the community. To think that wall of fire is your best option here is some sort of mass hysteria. Wall of fire is like some Messianic icon to many of you folks. And to not give it respect by not placing it in the holiest number 1 spot is blasphemy. Fact is, few examples can be had where wall of fire is your best option outside of epic play (all of these are situational). If the previous statement is true, then how can wall of fire rate high? If I am wrong, perhaps I am, name just 10 quests levels 7 - 10 where the opposite is true.

Now, how many here are starting to wonder if I started this thread to enlighten folks to better ways outside of wall of fire to quest. Can anyone guess what my next point will be concerning AOE spells like fireball? If not, you have not been paying attention.

edit: typo was corrected from 0.95 to 1.95, also eliminated the incorrect double damage to undead placed in fireball calculation

[richieelias27]

I think wall of fire might be amazing for you, but in general that is not the case. For the sake of argument lets assume you only want to face undead at level 8. So, your claim is that wall of fire is the spell of choice here. Hmm, sure you can successfully use it. However, how does

A well buffed wall of fire at a cost of 50 points
Average Damage per click = 15*(.95)*(2 for maximize)*(2 vs. undead) = 57


Compared to a fire ball here at a cost of 45 points
Average Damage = 40*(.95)*(2)*(2) = 152

Looks to me like you've got an extra *2 in there for fireball.

Realistic FB is 76 average damage vs Wall of fire 57 damage per tick. if your *2 is crit, then you darn well better factor a crit in for wall of fire as well making it FB 152 vs WoF 114 per tick. These numbers are hardly far off from each other.

Yes this is VS undead, and yes undead forms a large portion of level 8ish content.

You are still faliing to consider certain hidden aspects of instant AOE spells and, for myself, the absolute main reason that I almost never use any of the "ball" spells: Fizzles. Quite simply they are buggy as hell and I cant stand hitting the cast button and not get a spell (but spend mana as well as initiating the cooldown) even if it only happens 5% of the time. When I hit that button, I want my spell now, and I want predictable results. This last bit of course is my own personal opinion, and is seperate from the previous point, but still somewhat of an unpredictable factor in the DPS output and overall spell usefullness of fireball, DBF, etc.

I have noticed the latest patch has gone some distance in fixing this problem (finally, thank goodness), but I am still noticing certain things like FB not affecting the entire radius as it should, leaving little unexplained gaps in its damage radius, etc.

[Canuckish]

Another thread where Tiny Elvis tells us how great his DC is and how we must all play the game like he does otherwise we are wasting our time....

Sigh, this thread could have been useful....shame

[tinyelvis]

Looks to me like you've got an extra *2 in there for fireball.

Realistic FB is 76 average damage vs Wall of fire 57 damage per tick. if your *2 is crit, then you darn well better factor a crit in for wall of fire as well making it FB 152 vs WoF 114 per tick. These numbers are hardly far off from each other.

Yes this is VS undead, and yes undead forms a large portion of level 8ish content.

You are still faliing to consider certain hidden aspects of instant AOE spells and, for myself, the absolute main reason that I almost never use any of the "ball" spells: Fizzles. Quite simply they are buggy as hell and I cant stand hitting the cast button and not get a spell (but spend mana as well as initiating the cooldown) even if it only happens 5% of the time. When I hit that button, I want my spell now, and I want predictable results. This last bit of course is my own personal opinion, and is seperate from the previous point, but still somewhat of an unpredictable factor in the DPS output and overall spell usefullness of fireball, DBF, etc.

I have noticed the latest patch has gone some distance in fixing this problem (finally, thank goodness), but I am still noticing certain things like FB not affecting the entire radius as it should, leaving little unexplained gaps in its damage radius, etc.

Look again, I used the same buffs for both spells. If you take the maximize off of spells then sure in the case above you are looking at 56 damage for fireball. But, your wall of fire damage also halves to 28.5. This brings up another point. With AOE spells like fireball, you get a whole lot bigger kick from your meta magic. Notice, un-maximized the damage is only double. But once you maximize, for example the result is almost triple damage. This benefit also increases as you level. Also, if you use a spell like fireball, then you can cast without meta magic, if the foes dont all die you can quickly cast another. With wall of fire you really cant do that.

Like ray spell casting, AOE spell casting does takes practice and a little more game knowledge to learn how to effectively use the spell. It is probably not as easy as throwing down walls of fire but its a whole lot more effective once you learn how to use your spells.

[kernal42]

Look again, I used the same buffs for both spells.

Yes, including the "x2 for damage against undead." Unless you're supplying some other x2 buff just for the fireball?
Also, you have a (.95) multiplier there. You probably mean (1.95) for sup inferno IV and +20% from fire/ice enhancements, perhaps?

if the foes dont all die you can quickly cast another. With wall of fire you really cant do that.

Yes, with WoF you can wait another two seconds, which is comparable to the cooldown on your fireball. I fail to see how this makes fireball better, considering that the technique doubles your sp cost.

Cheers,
Kernal

[melkor1702]

I opt to kill things with a well buffed fire ball that at 8th level does 8*(1d3+3) base damage as opposed to 2d6+8 base damage every few seconds (faster killing at a cheaper cost). That's a base expected average of 40 compared to 15.

Fixed it for you.

Does anyone else find it ironic that the same guy who says it inefficent for damage per spell point to use certain metamagic feats is making arguments against using the most efficent damage per spell point spell in the game.

So if you are all about killing things and killing them fast are you taking empower again seeing as spell point conservation doesn't seem to be a concern any more.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206191

[Thesoulgazer]

Another thread where Tiny Elvis tells us how great his DC is and how we must all play the game like he does otherwise we are wasting our time....

Sigh, this thread could have been useful....shame

This. Just like where he said that he easily killed 3 devils and stole one from a monk.


Niacs? no

Frost lance? No

Eagles spledor? Due to pots and scoll avalibility, No

Exp Retreat? Are you F*cking KIDDING me? no

Ghoul Touch No

Lets replace with

Waves

Haste

Resist

Reconstruct

Whatever


And about enervation/level drain: Just cause ur DC's are maxed doesnt mean that the rest of ours are.

Wof: Just cause its sort of repetitive at times does not give it this low position. It is the BEST spell you can have at the lower levels, one of the bst at the mid, and still pretty awesome at high (cept for necropoolic, then its the best everywhere)

[richieelias27]

Look again, I used the same buffs for both spells. If you take the maximize off of spells then sure in the case above you are looking at 56 damage for fireball. But, your wall of fire damage also halves to 28.5. This brings up another point. With AOE spells like fireball, you get a whole lot bigger kick from your meta magic. Notice, un-maximized the damage is only double. But once you maximize, for example the result is almost triple damage. This benefit also increases as you level. Also, if you use a spell like fireball, then you can cast without meta magic, if the foes dont all die you can quickly cast another. With wall of fire you really cant do that.

Like ray spell casting, AOE spell casting does takes practice and a little more game knowledge to learn how to effectively use the spell. It is probably not as easy as throwing down walls of fire but its a whole lot more effective once you learn how to use your spells.

Yeah, you used the exact same buffs as WoF... But just so you know, fireball does not do double damage vs undead except for those frostmarrows or other fire vuln undead, at which point WoF would be doing QUAD damage. So yeah... extra *2. Sorry, but your math is wrong unless there is some super duper secret x2 damage bonus that only affects FB and only you know about.

With WoF you do not NEED to cast it again, as the WoF.... IS STILL THERE.

[sirgog]

Leaving out reconstruct was a big accident as i pointed out earlier. Haste can hardly rate since its at best the third or fourth pick for a sorc at 3rd level spell. Sure its a fine spell, but its not going to contribute to your offensive capability as much as other spells. Wall of Fire is necessary for epic play (in fact most of the time its the only offensive option in epic play). However, outside of that it is only use situationally by good casters (i.e. when mana is low or you want to kill something while you park it in a safe location or you want to drop a dozen on an opponent before they activate).

Haste is the best 3rd level spell and most Sorcs take it as their first or second level 3 spell. If they don't take the spell, they make sure to have scrolls of it (and most halfway decent players use scrolls of Haste from level 4 until they have the spell selected and the SP to keep it active most of the time).

A single firewall crit deals almost as much damage over time to a non-undead opponent as a well-played ungeared level 20 melee. Against undead, it does more damage than any melee.

I use Firewall to do the following:

- Solo Shroud lieutenants (just one lieutenant on Hard or Elite, on Normal I'll take two of them). The last 10-15% damage is done by other nukes like DBF/Polar Ray/Cone of Cold, but FW is the main workhorse that lets me preserve a lot of mana in case the rest of the group screws it up.
- Decimate entire packs of mobs in the Inspired Quarter content (charm one mob, get the rest of the pack fighting that one, max/emp/extended FW on the pack, kite through)
- Kill any archer types
- Massacre undead
- Deal extraordinary amounts of damage to lich Sor'jek
- Kill mobs that haven't yet spawned, but will appear in predictable places (this is one option for level 17 and under Sorcs in Shroud part 1, but Wail is more effective once you hit 18)
- Set up a nasty little 'trap' that you can lure particularly dangerous mobs into
- Kill groups of mobs that are widely spread out (throw one FW, pull other mobs to it)
- As an all-purpose damage dealing spell when damage per mana is more important than damage per second (which is almost all of the game)
- As the best damage-dealing spell in all content where mobs have >2500 hp and are not immune to fire (all Epic content, some Reaver's Refuge content, elite Inspired Quarter/Dreaming Dark
- As one part of a damage rotation against many quest bosses (many boss fights start with a single Firewall, followed by a rotation of Polar Ray/DBF/Cone of Cold until mana is low, then replacement Firewalls)
- Taking aggro from mobs that are yet to spawn (most important on Shadowfiends in the Nytharios fight)

And, of course, it was the main weapon in the arsenal of the first player responsible for the extremely impressive achievement of soloing epic Lailat.

[richieelias27]

The thought that wall of fire is the best approach here actually represents the poor general knowledge of the community. To think that wall of fire is your best option here is some sort of mass hysteria. Wall of fire is like some Messianic icon to many of you folks. And to not give it respect by not placing it in the holiest number 1 spot is blasphemy. Fact is, few examples can be had where wall of fire is your best option outside of epic play (all of these are situational). If the previous statement is true, then how can wall of fire rate high? If I am wrong, perhaps I am, name just 10 quests levels 7 - 10 where the opposite is true.

Yowza! Cant believe I missed this one...

Almost every House J quest
The entire lower Necro series (theres 15 quests right there)
Deleras
Much of the graveyard
Desert - undead side

... There is more, but I just got bored.

[Doxmaster]

...

Ghoul Touch No
...

Sir/madam: those are fighting words. A sorcerer might not have room for it, but NEVER insult ghoul touch. That spell is the love-child of hold person and necromancy; awesomeness blasting your speakers till your computer bleeds surreal bliss.

[tinyelvis]

Yowza! Cant believe I missed this one...

Almost every House J quest
The entire lower Necro series (theres 15 quests right there)
Deleras
Much of the graveyard
Desert - undead side

... There is more, but I just got bored.

Sure, they may be quests where wall of fire performs well, but each quest above, you will kill faster and cheaper using a well spec'd fireball. Every single one of them. Jump into any of those quests with 2 casters and the fellow who laughingly uses wall of fire over fireball will get next to no kills. His walls will burn empty most of the time.

[khaldan]

Sure, they may be quests where wall of fire performs well, but each quest above, you will kill faster and cheaper using a well spec'd fireball. Every single one of them. Jump into any of those quests with 2 casters and the fellow who laughingly uses wall of fire over fireball will get next to no kills. His walls will burn empty most of the time.

Really now?

You can kill 2-3 rooms with one firewall. Can't do that with 1 fireball.