The Golddigger

[Irinis]

Pure 20 STR-based Melee... Spellsinger?
(Inspired by this thread.)

This dumb blonde loves the life of an adventurer and ain't no trophy wife, but she loves sweet-talking the locals into giving her better deals on those little luxuries when she's back in town.

Human
(or Half-Elf but haven't been able to load Lammania client to test build stats)
TWF Heavy Pick (Master's Touch or Dilettante)/Rapier

STR 36 (16 +5 levels +2 tome +7 epic +3 exc +1 Human +2 rage spell)
DEX 24 (15 +2 tome +7 epic)
CON 26 (15 +6 item +1 Human +2 exc +2 rage spell)
INT 10 (8 +2 tome)
WIS 14 (8 +6 item)
CHA 26 (14 +2 Bard +2 Capstone +7 epic +1 exc)

8 Feats:

Toughness, Extend, Least Mark of Finding (if Human), Maximize, TWF, ITWF, Power Attack, GTWF

(Obviously the Dragonmark is just speculation right now...)

Skills:

Every level: Balance, Concentration, Haggle, Perform, Move Silently, UMD
On first level, 2 into Move Silently, 2 into Tumble
After level 8 add: Spot (to see hidden enemies)

Enhancements:

Spellsinger II and prerequisites
For the extra 200 SP, Mana Regen Song, and bonus to Haggle
Attack/Damage III
Wand and Scroll Mastery II+

VARIATIONS:

The Dragonmark is probably just fluff, so the feats for a Human would look more like this:
Toughness, Extend, Maximize, TWF, ITWF, IC:Pierce, Power Attack, GTWF.

The build doesn't totally need the capstone, so balance +1/+1 stronger songs against 2 Fighter levels for extra DPS feats and maybe fitting in Quicken for certain healing situations.

[Aerendil]

You'll want Heighten.
And possibly a SF:Enchantment or 2.
And maybe even a Spell Penetration feat.

Thing is, to be a good caster in DDO you need a good number of metamagics.
And to be a good meleer in DDO, you need a good number of the combat feats (TWF/ITWF/GTWF, I:Crit, PA = 5 feats instantly gone).

Finding a balance between the two is REALLY hard as a result.
Hence why you don't see too many melee Spellsingers.

For what it's worth, I'd ditch PA and possibly even GTWF. You'll mostly only be meleeing when solo, and as a Spellsinger it's more efficient to Hold Monster your target or Otto's it, then beat it up (in which case you don't need super melee skills). And with the new regerating SP song, you can afford to do this a lot more.

Definitely ditch the Mark of Finding too, by the way.

Anyways, just my 2cp.

*edit* - one further thing is that you'll want max, or as close to max starting as possible, CHA.
A spellsinger that can't land any of his/her spells is simply a gimped Warchanter!

[Irinis]

Hmm and while I'm at it put all level ups into CHA instead of STR, and start with max CHA like my other Spellsinger.... in other words, thanks for missing the entire concept of the build.

I guess it really IS that set in stone in the community that Spellsingers do CC and Warchanters do melee, huh?

[Renegade66]

You asked that I post my current Virtuso build, so here it is.

The key is having twin Epic Dynastic Falcatas. In addition to being high to-hit and damage weapons, they give +7 CHA and a Red Slot so that you can make them Good Aligned and bypass quite a bit of DR out there. They also have True Law and Axiomatic Burst for more damage and DR bypassing.

The best though is that they use your CHA modifier to hit AND to damage. STR is not used, so my 44+ Charisma is effectively the same as a fighter with 44+ STR.

There are many DPS Bards out there. However, they are all splash builds that give up something on the Bard side. My build is pure Bard, so with the high CHA make them very powerful for spell DCs, spell points, number of spells and song DCs. I have about 30 songs that are nearly 9 minutes in length too.

I hit just as hard or even harder than mixed breed DPS Bards because I do have improved crit slash and greater two weapon fighting feats. I give up a bit against mobs needing Silver to bypass DR since I don't have Min II weapons and they wouldn't help me if I did. I feel though that I gain much more as a cha based, pure bard than I give up on dps vs. silver based DR mobs.

If you're willing to grind the Epic Falcata's then you can't beat the build. I'm not too happy with the Virtuoso PrE, so I'm considering swapping over to Spell Singer. I haven't decided yet though.

Other Gear:
- Epic Vulkoorim Fighting Leathers
- Cloak of Curses (Enchantment Focus + Curses Stuff and Removes curses). If not needing Enchantment Focus then I swap out for Wretched Twilight with a bit more Sneak Attack than the Leathers provide.
- Shintao Necklace and Ring w/ +2 CHA.
- Occult Slayer belt and Ring w/ +2 CON.
- Concordant Opposition HP Boots
- Spectral Gloves or Vile Blasphemy
- Mana and CHA Skills Bracers
- Litany of the Dead Trinket
- Minos Legens Helm
- Mentau Goggles (Seeker +4)

Feats (No room/str for Power Attack):
Toughness
Extend
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Impr Crit Slash
Heighten
Khopesh Proficiency

I don't remember the starting stats, but it was probably Max CHA and the rest in CON.

[BoBoDaClown]

You asked that I post my current Virtuso build, so here it is.

The key is having twin Epic Dynastic Falcatas. In addition to being high to-hit and damage weapons, they give +7 CHA and a Red Slot so that you can make them Good Aligned and bypass quite a bit of DR out there. They also have True Law and Axiomatic Burst for more damage and DR bypassing.

The best though is that they use your CHA modifier to hit AND to damage. STR is not used, so my 44+ Charisma is effectively the same as a fighter with 44+ STR.

There are many DPS Bards out there. However, they are all splash builds that give up something on the Bard side. My build is pure Bard, so with the high CHA make them very powerful for spell DCs, spell points, number of spells and song DCs. I have about 30 songs that are nearly 9 minutes in length too.

I hit just as hard or even harder than mixed breed DPS Bards because I do have improved crit slash and greater two weapon fighting feats. I give up a bit against mobs needing Silver to bypass DR since I don't have Min II weapons and they wouldn't help me if I did. I feel though that I gain much more as a cha based, pure bard than I give up on dps vs. silver based DR mobs.

If you're willing to grind the Epic Falcata's then you can't beat the build. I'm not too happy with the Virtuoso PrE, so I'm considering swapping over to Spell Singer. I haven't decided yet though.

Other Gear:
- Epic Vulkoorim Fighting Leathers
- Cloak of Curses (Enchantment Focus + Curses Stuff and Removes curses). If not needing Enchantment Focus then I swap out for Wretched Twilight with a bit more Sneak Attack than the Leathers provide.
- Shintao Necklace and Ring w/ +2 CHA.
- Occult Slayer belt and Ring w/ +2 CON.
- Concordant Opposition HP Boots
- Spectral Gloves or Vile Blasphemy
- Mana and CHA Skills Bracers
- Litany of the Dead Trinket
- Minos Legens Helm
- Mentau Goggles (Seeker +4)

Feats (No room/str for Power Attack):
Toughness
Extend
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Impr Crit Slash
Heighten
Khopesh Proficiency

I don't remember the starting stats, but it was probably Max CHA and the rest in CON.

Hmmmmmmmm cool build.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

The key is having twin Epic Dynastic Falcatas. In addition to being high to-hit and damage weapons, they give +7 CHA and a Red Slot so that you can make them Good Aligned and bypass quite a bit of DR out there. They also have True Law and Axiomatic Burst for more damage and DR bypassing.

The best though is that they use your CHA modifier to hit AND to damage. STR is not used, so my 44+ Charisma is effectively the same as a fighter with 44+ STR.
I don't remember the starting stats, but it was probably Max CHA and the rest in CON.

This is an all around great build. Was thinking about a build like this since Epic Dynastic Falcatas were released. I actually built something around these weapons for someone and went warchanter. However, with the release of the new PrEs, I think Spellsinger synergizes much better with what your trying to accomplish here.

Very nice job.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Irinis, must say I like your concept here (love the spellsinger PrE choice) but imo you are spread out here just a bit too far. Imp crit is essential on the dps side. Quicken/Maximize combo would be very nice on the healing and CC sides. One way to go is to start with extend to assist you early in your build life, then swap it out in the upper levels for quicken.

Other then that looks great!

[bartosy]

You can still be a decent healer if you get quicken on this build because you got the sp song and +200 sp and -10% sp song but the cc wont do a lot of good for you

and yea i agree on the virtuoso part

[Tuney]

Well if he goes human, he can try and find a way to squeeze quicken into his build. He has Maximize , the build can't nor should try to be a main healer but can provide quite nice emergancy spot healing with Maximize.

[Tuney]

Well as a pure melee spell singer , even with the songs you know your CC will be bad. So It will be best to pick up and only really use Irristable. But other then that you'll have better SR pen then the avg melee focused Bard builds as they tend to War chanters and splash levels.

It is basicaly like building a War chanter that is specced to be a support/CC build. All the PrE does for a bard saying it is more 'effective' to go this path but you can still go any way you want. At least that is how it will be for the first two tiers, depending on the requirements and bonuses of the tier 3 you may have to be more 'melee' or 'spell casting' focused at that time. But tier 2 bonuses still are that give bonuses to that type of play but still are required.

Though Using Picks with out Improved Critical though makes me wonder. And Renegade's Virt bard uses the same weapon I'll one day make for my self though I don't Duel wield because I love the darn Light and darkness!

[Irinis]

Though Using Picks with out Improved Critical though makes me wonder.

I know... would love to fit that in. Not so bad when using MinII's but would be so much better for Earthgrabs.

Maximize is needed for Spellsinger prereqs. Human could fit in IC:Pierce rather than the Dragonmark (which is probably sheer fluff anyway hehe) by moving up all the other feats prior to level 12 and taking it then.

Toughness, Extend, Maximize, TWF, ITWF, IC:Pierce, Power Attack, GTWF.

Of course, this build doesn't really NEED the capstone either, so could easily fit in a Fighter level or two and pick up two more feats. Quicken would be a definite, then.

PS: Tuney, I'm female! And this character is obviously female also!

PPS: Thanks Ren! (Wrong thread )

[Renegade66]

PPS: Thanks Ren! (Wrong thread )

Ahh, sorry. Feel free to copy and paste.

[Aerendil]

Hmm and while I'm at it put all level ups into CHA instead of STR, and start with max CHA like my other Spellsinger.... in other words, thanks for missing the entire concept of the build.

I guess it really IS that set in stone in the community that Spellsingers do CC and Warchanters do melee, huh?

Trust me, I didn't miss the point of the post. I get it.
I'm posting advice because what you're trying isn't new. People have tried for YEARS now to make a good melee Bard that has effective spells too. And trust me, I've wanted to make the same in the past. Simple fact is, the way DDO is set up with outrageous stats, saves, and spell resistance, if you want to be an effective caster you *have* to take all of those spell metamagics and gear yourself 100% towards casting.
It's not like in Pen and Paper where you can do a little bit of everything and be pretty good at all of them; in DDO you need to really specialize in order to be effective. Which is unfortunate, but hey... just giving you the truth.

But hey, like I said, build a full melee SS and try it out for yourself.

Of course, this build doesn't really NEED the capstone either, so could easily fit in a Fighter level or two and pick up two more feats. Quicken would be a definite, then.

See comments above which pretty much answers this.
Again, sorry to be the voice of bad news, and it's nothing personal I assure you... but if you want to be a good Spellsinger, you want to stay pure, put level ups into CHA, and get the capstone.
But something tells me you're going to do your own thing anyways!

[BoBoDaClown]

Pure 20 STR-based Melee... Spellsinger?
(Inspired by this thread.)

This dumb blonde loves the life of an adventurer and ain't no trophy wife, but she loves sweet-talking the locals into giving her better deals on those little luxuries when she's back in town.

Human
(or Half-Elf but haven't been able to load Lammania client to test build stats)
TWF Heavy Pick (Master's Touch or Dilettante)/Rapier

STR 36 (16 +5 levels +2 tome +7 epic +3 exc +1 Human +2 rage spell)
DEX 24 (15 +2 tome +7 epic)
CON 26 (15 +6 item +1 Human +2 exc +2 rage spell)
INT 10 (8 +2 tome)
WIS 14 (8 +6 item)
CHA 26 (14 +2 Bard +2 Capstone +7 epic +1 exc)

8 Feats:

Toughness, Extend, Least Mark of Finding (if Human), Maximize, TWF, ITWF, Power Attack, GTWF

(Obviously the Dragonmark is just speculation right now...)

Skills:

Every level: Balance, Concentration, Haggle, Perform, Move Silently, UMD
On first level, 2 into Move Silently, 2 into Tumble
After level 8 add: Spot (to see hidden enemies)

Enhancements:

Spellsinger II and prerequisites
For the extra 200 SP, Mana Regen Song, and bonus to Haggle
Attack/Damage III
Wand and Scroll Mastery II+

VARIATIONS:

The Dragonmark is probably just fluff, so the feats for a Human would look more like this:
Toughness, Extend, Maximize, TWF, ITWF, IC:Pierce, Power Attack, GTWF.

The build doesn't totally need the capstone, so balance +1/+1 stronger songs against 2 Fighter levels for extra DPS feats and maybe fitting in Quicken for certain healing situations.

I'd drop the DM for improve crit. Other than that, looks good.

[valorik]

I don't quite get the point in goin spellsinger if you don't have quicken to heal in combat, otherwise you're just a huge sp somewhat gimpy melee. Obviously if you're a human I'd drop mark of finding for it, otherwise I'd drop extend for it, you'll have plenty of sp to keep the haste going and you don't need it for your cc spells like ottos and suggestion.

edit* also noticed that you have no IC, I'd stick with human and drop both dragonmark and extend.

[Tuney]

My virt bard is specced for healing and Doesn't have Quicken. QUICKEN IS ONLY A REQUIRED HEALING FEAT FOR BATTLE HEALERS or wanting to use Mass Heal as a primary means of healing.

Notice I said Battle healers, they are the kind who like to use the weapon they are wielding to cause blood to spill not as a focus for spell casting.

A Spell Singer because of the tier 1 and 2 bonuses and requirements does not have to focus on being a CC BUT the requirements to give a nice boon to healing. Because of using Maximize as the required feat to get spell singer and lack of the 'power healing spells.' Idealy this build is better for Emergancy Healing with Max on or After battle treatment to allow the primary healers (If there are any in the group) to save SP and regen more with the SP regen song going.

I'd keep Extend because the only offensive spell that can be realistly used is Irriestable with its HORRABLE durration.

[jsaving]

I like the idea of a melee-based spellsinger, Irinis, and I think you've done a nice job laying out a viable build along those lines. I've been wrestling with how to do this myself so I thank you for the ideas you've provided!

Melee spellsingers usually end up being stretched too thin, with subpar weapon DPS coupled with subpar casting. You overcome this problem by throwing away crowd-control casting entirely and essentially adopting the stats and feats of a standard TWF warchanter. I think this is the right way to go, but I wonder whether you've gone quite far enough. Your "variant" build that replaces the lesser mark with improved critical seems almost mandatory if you're going to dish out a reasonable amount of weapon DPS. I think you could also make a case for replacing extend with khopesh, though I personally like the convenience of having extend on my bard builds.

Finally, I agree with you that the capstone isn't as important for your build as it is for some. A fighter splash would be the most conventional approach, and it would certainly give you some breathing room for "somewhat useful" feats like quicken. But I wonder whether you've thought about a variant where you'd splash rogue for survivability and search/disarm? You'd probably want to shift 2 stat points from CHA to INT if you went this route, but I don't see that an initial charisma of 12 would harm your build concept in a significant way.

This is one of the most thought-provoking builds I've seen in some time and I wish you the best of luck as you go forward with this character.

[Irinis]

Thanks, it was Samadhi's idea I just wrote out a build for it. The first one is a bit of a "flavour" build, and the "variant" is the actual serious if-you-wanna-play-this build.